THE TRILLION-POUND TRADE IN CARBON!

'Deniers' ? This is completely political mud-throwing at its dirtiest; an abusive and shameful and outrageous misuse of the phrase aimed at those who have reservations and questions regarding the enormous issues at stake, and are not convinced at what they consider to be a knee-jerk reaction from those politically delighted at the enticing opportunity to grab the greatest power ever presented to them. All the political predators and power hungry jobsworths in the world have piled onto the lip-smacking bandwagon of the new religion.' Just a minute - Whoa there' is something which does not suit their book.
Their big -big business equivalents are right in there with them, snouts already deep into the tax -funded trough of other peoples' money.

All these can be easily recognised by their use of the word 'Deniers', when actually of course, they themselves are the Nazi's in this context, bent on the censorship and silencing of any questions.

All this largely based upon their own limited opinions and therefore not up for discussion as far as they are concerned; any questions ? - shut your mouth !

Perseus presents his opinions as though they are sacred facts.

Those such as I wish to express reservations for consideration and response.

Happy Christmas everyone.:cheers:
 
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Denier is exactly the correct phrase, they deny a truth which is beyond reasonable doubt, as surely as the Holocaust deniers do, except the former will probably result in far more suffering and death.

Denial is a defense mechanism in which a person is faced with a fact that is too painful to accept and rejects it instead, insisting that it is not true despite what may be overwhelming evidence.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denial_(disambiguation)

Merry Christmas!
 
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See my last post. You are spouting offensive rubbish; to compare such history to a current running debate makes me sick to my stomach- filthy politics which dishonours your cause and represents desperate defeat in the arguments taking place; we now have hidden information, cheating important figures and now the lowest politics that could be dredged upyou could possibly dredged up from the depths of the desperation of the fanaticism of your new religion.

The global warming argument is not necessarily beyond reasonable doubt, in 60 years time we will have a better perspective. I see we have moved from proved to reasonable doubt.

The deliberately organised and calculated murder and torture and attempted genocide of a people in the name of political fanaticism, is a permanent stain upon humanity established in history. The mis-use of that as a political tool is nothing but a knife twisted in the torture.

Those you see fit to describe as deniers are nothing more than sceptics and questioners, and as such have an important function in the process. To try to prevent this establishes your lack of faith in your new religion. You might better call them Heretics.

Desperate Dan stuff, it seems to me.


Happy Xmas everyone.:drunkb:
 
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I find the continued recycling of propaganda from oil sponsored third party websites deeply offensive and damaging. The word Denier is now regularly used to show the disgust by scientists at the charlatans who circulate this disinformation. I am similarly disgusted at the fake engineered petitions which are composed almost entirely of non specialists with a scattering of fake, forged and decreased climate scientists thrown in for good measure.

The following is probably misleading since all the climate scientist Deniers that I know of have admitted some human influence. It is absurd to suggest otherwise since it is physically impossible for there not to be an influence due to the thermal characteristics of the gases concerned. A Denierist argument is that they are warming the earth and that its good because it prevents an ice age! Even the oil industries scientists admitted AGW was real, and the report was hidden away. The nails were in the Denierists coffin 15 years ago, but PR companies and Republican politicians are like vampires. Nothing will stop them prowling for ignorant victims.

97% of active climatologists agree that human activity is causing global warming


DoranAndZimmerman2009.png
 
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These people will resort to any depths. how many times do you see people conned by this fake petition?

Oregon Petition


The infamous "Oregon Petition"

The Oregon Petition has been used by climate change deniers as proof that there is no scientific consensus, however they fail to note the controversy surrounding the petition itself. In April 1998, and individual named Art Robinson and his organization, the "Oregon Institute of Science and Medicine, along with the Exxon-backed George C. Marshall Institute, co-published the infamous “Oregon Petition” claiming to have collected 17,000 signatories to a document arguing against the realities of global warming.

The petition and the documents included were all made to look like official papers from the prestigious National Academy of Science. They weren’t, and this attempt to mislead has been well-documented.

Along with the petition there was a cover letter from Dr. Fred Seitz, a notorious climate change denier (and big tobacco scientist), who over 30 years ago was the president of the National Academy of Science. Also attached to the petition was an apparent “research paper” titled: Environmental Effects of Increased Atmospheric Carbon Dioxide. The paper was made to mimic what a research paper would look like in the National Academy’s prestigious Proceedings of the National Academy journal. The authors of the paper were Robinson, Sallie Baliunas, Willie Soon (both oil-backed scientists) and Robinson’s son Zachary. With the signature of a former NAS president and a research paper that appeared to be published in one of the most prestigious science journals in the world, many scientists were duped into signing a petition based on a false impression.

The petition was so misleading that the National Academy issued a news release stating that: "The petition project was a deliberate attempt to mislead scientists and to rally them in an attempt to undermine support for the Kyoto Protocol. The petition was not based on a review of the science of global climate change, nor were its signers experts in the field of climate science."

Oregon petition and big tobacco

It’s interesting to note that Fred Sietz, the author of the cover letter, is also the former medical advisor to RJ Reynolds medical research program. A 1989 Philip Morris memo stated that Seitz was “quite elderly and not sufficiently rational to offer advice.” However, nine years later, it seems that he was “sufficiently rational” to lead the charge on Robinson’s Oregon Petition. It also seems that Seitz is still “sufficiently rational” to sit as the Chair of notorious climate change denier, Fred Singer’s, Science and Environmental Policy Project.

Oregon Petition and the Spice Girls

According to the May 1998 Associated Press article, the Oregon petition included names that were intentionally placed to prove the invalid methodology with which the names of scientists were collected. The petition included the names of "Drs. 'Frank Burns' 'Honeycutt' and 'Pierce' from the hit-show M*A*S*H and Spice Girls, a.k.a. Geraldine Halliwell, who was on the petition as 'Dr. Geri Halliwel' and again as simply 'Dr. Halliwell.' " Of the fake names, Robinson is quoted as saying: "When we're getting thousands of signatures there's no way of filtering out a fake."
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In the grip of one of the worst winters in 100 years, blizzards, ice and sub-zero temperatures, Britain is experiencing almost a month so far of a record deep freeze; critics of the global warming lobby say the public are no longer prepared to be conned into believing that man is responsible for 'global warming'. Long term forcaster and trends analyst Piers Corbyn of WeatherAction claims 'Global warming is a failed science built on falsified data. It is a sham to say that man has caused it.'

The Met Office's Barry Gromett said that 2009 is set to be the 5th warmest on record; as far as Britain is concerned, if that is true, then global warming is no problem whatsoever, following the very weak summer we have experienced; in fact any global warming noticed has been beneficial here; we could do with more of the same.

Meanwhile, the Northern Hemisphere shivers.

Christopher Booker, author of The Real Global Warming Disaster, says ' It is amazing how this scaremongering from climate change lobbyists keeps arising even though they are constantly proved wrong. Last year there was snow in Saudi Arabia and still they persist in saying the temperature is going up..'

Where's my hot water bottle? I'm damn well freezing here. Brrr. Perseus, turn the bloody heat up!
 
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"believers" vs "Deniers" Back in the '70s there were "Scientists" who were warning of the coming New Ice Age. Thier answer was increased Govt control of the economy. Flashforward a couple decades & some of the same "scientists" are now calling for "Global Warming" &, guess what! the answer is....increased Govt controll of the economy! See a pattern? Watermelons, Green on the outside, Red on the inside.
 
Yawn more Daily Mail Propaganda,



give it a rest Del Boy, I really do think this paper should be sued since it should not be sold to children or the mental age equivalent, in other words just about their entire readership.

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/health/daily-mail-readers-being-fed-through-a-tube-201001062355/

How many times do I .......

Climate Denial Crock of the Week- "It's cold. So there's no Climate Change"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0JsdSDa_bM

Climate Deniers Love the 70s! -- The Remix (ICE AGES)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XB3S0fnOr0M
 
George said:
See a pattern? Watermelons, Green on the outside, Red on the inside.
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Jeeez,..uz George, exactly what are you on?

I bet you still look for Reds under the bed, before you go to bed every night, or do you actually sit up all night with a loaded BB gun defending America's back door?

That would definitely have to be one of the more "lunatic fringe" things I've ever read on this forum.
perseus said:
Yawn more Daily Mail Propaganda,
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Yawn, indeed, I think that it might be time you actually shook yourself, woke up and thought about what you are saying.

So the Daily Mail has been the cause of all of this cold weather, just so they could write something sensationalist?

I have no doubt that they have done some pretty dodgy reporting at times, but changing the weather patterns,... I think not.
 
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perseus said:
Yawn more Daily Mail Propaganda,



give it a rest Del Boy, I really do think this paper should be sued since it should not be sold to children or the mental age equivalent, in other words just about their entire readership.

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/health/daily-mail-readers-being-fed-through-a-tube-201001062355/

How many times do I .......

Climate Denial Crock of the Week- "It's cold. So there's no Climate Change"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0JsdSDa_bM

Climate Deniers Love the 70s! -- The Remix (ICE AGES)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XB3S0fnOr0M
Click to expand...

That first video is a pretty good representation, I don't entirely agree with his NASA comments but I do like the fact that he explained the difference between weather and climate in such a way that should be understandable to all.

I also liked the straight forward explanation of El Nino and La Nina as well as the effect of Pinatubo's eruption.
 
perseus said:
Yawn more Daily Mail Propaganda,



give it a rest Del Boy, I really do think this paper should be sued since it should not be sold to children or the mental age equivalent, in other words just about their entire readership.
Click to expand...


Give it a rest yourself; you can't expect those who question your fanatical support of your new religion to shut up just because you tell them to. Totally more YAWN more Perseus. What you really do think is inconsequential and irrelevant re our press, my fine fellow.

Your Nazi authoritarianist approach is exposed completely by your fervent desire to censor free speech and the free press; your nonsensical description of the vast readership of one of our greatest and most popular newspapers, which adopts the old Hitler personna. Sue the messenger, shoot those who disagree with you; if they don't agree with you they must be retarded; don't you recognise where this leaves you.

TO EMPHASISE YOUR SPOUTING RUBBISH re our press, :read:I must correct you; it has nothing to do with The Daily Mail, my quotes did not involve them at all. So the poor old Mail, God Bless it, gets a stupid tongue-lashing from you just for breathing. So much your ignorant critique!

Not very bright, actually; get back to Animal Farm, old chap. I question everything thoroughly before I swallow it whole; you used to burn folk like that , didn't you? That was probably what caused global warming, so don't re-introduce that law for non-believers and questioners, while the argument still rages . Puny man or power planet moves?
 
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Just a quick point of interest he is saying a newspaper sucks and you respond by saying he sucks do you not see a certain failure in the logic of this approach?

Anyway we have a winner of the Milforum Godwins Law competition for 2010...

Godwin's Law
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(also known as Godwin's Rule of Nazi Analogies or Godwin's Law of Nazi Analogies) is a humorous observation made by Mike Godwin in 1990 which has become an Internet adage. It states: "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches.
Godwin's Law is often cited in online discussions as a deterrent against the use of arguments in the widespread reductio ad Hitlerum form. The rule does not make any statement about whether any particular reference or comparison to Adolf Hitler or the Nazis might be appropriate, but only asserts that the likelihood of such a reference or comparison arising increases as the discussion progresses. It is precisely because such a comparison or reference may sometimes be appropriate, Godwin has argued[4] that overuse of Nazi and Hitler comparisons should be avoided, because it robs the valid comparisons of their impact.
Click to expand...
 
Of course you realised that I was simply bouncing the ball back in protest at Perseus' crude comparison of the questioning of the reasons for global warming with the Holocaust denial and his authorative censorship of free speech and particularly freedom of the press. Just reminding him that a differing opinion is not necessarily a hanging offence.

That's the logic.
 
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Del Boy. Do you think that it should be morally and legally acceptable in the name of free speech to say someone is a homosexual or has a criminal record etc if it isn't true?
 
I think your both missing the point, I am talking about the right to tell lies in the name of free speech.
 
perseus said:
I think your both missing the point, I am talking about the right to tell lies in the name of free speech.
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Well, you shouldn't do it.

If we cut to the chase, all along you have been presenting a widely believed (and disbelieved) theory as an inescapable fact.

Your only real defence during this sorry saga, being to ridicule those who don't agree with you.

Science,.... pbbbbttt......
 
perseus said:
I think your both missing the point, I am talking about the right to tell lies in the name of free speech.
Click to expand...

In the printed press in the USA thats called Libel. Its not a criminal offense but it is a civil one and you can be held liable for it. The catch is it has to be proven that the party knowing knew beforehand what he was printing was untrue. Which makes libel cases rather tricky, because most journalists know how to avoid the pitfalls making potential lawsuits very difficult to prove.
 
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