Originally Posted by LeMask

Some are real jerks, I dont know how someone can deserve them...

Being an idiot by voting them over again depite countless amounts of grievances you have for them is quite careless if you ask me. That is what a good deal of Americans did/do. Unfortunately the ones who disagree is caught up in it because they are in the "minority", but for those who do vote the idiot politicians, they deserve it.

Before leaving office, George Washington told us two advice; stay out of long alliances and keep away from the party system. Actually one of the reason's he resigned was because of the party system creation. You can't get nothing done if you don't want to agree just because they are in a different party. The party system is more of a hinderance to development than it is a way to further it.

On topic now:

Maybe they should just delete the sites instead of censoring it? It is much easier isn't it?

Well, I can agree with that, but only to some extent...

In many many cases, the people dont have much choice. Most of the time, you have to chose between jerk A or jerk B or jerk C...

Whoever you vote for, it will be some useless jerk from the upper corrupt political class...

In France, they had to chose between Sarkozy and Royal (she was pretty useless)... In the US they voted Bush twice... etc...

Most of the time, you have to chose the lesser of two evils rather than making a real choice.

And these are the most democratic countries... In other countries where the leaders are elected at 98% votes like Tunisia and such... The joke is so obvious...

And some would tell me that if the people were worthy they would have less jerks to chose from... But come on, how many honest people make in politics?

And when honest people make it, you have the whole corrupt world jumping on you to smash your teeth because the corrupt people in the other countries dont like it one bit...

So no, I dont think that we always have the government we deserve...

Originally Posted by LeMask

Well, I can agree with that, but only to some extent...

In many many cases, the people dont have much choice. Most of the time, you have to chose between jerk A or jerk B or jerk C...

Whoever you vote for, it will be some useless jerk from the upper corrupt political class...

In France, they had to chose between Sarkozy and Royal (she was pretty useless)... In the US they voted Bush twice... etc...

Most of the time, you have to chose the lesser of two evils rather than making a real choice.

And these are the most democratic countries... In other countries where the leaders are elected at 98% votes like Tunisia and such... The joke is so obvious...

And some would tell me that if the people were worthy they would have less jerks to chose from... But come on, how many honest people make in politics?

And when honest people make it, you have the whole corrupt world jumping on you to smash your teeth because the corrupt people in the other countries dont like it one bit...

So no, I dont think that we always have the government we deserve...

Yes we do. If this choice is limited, why is it limited? If the candidates are crap - why are they crap, if the [political system is moribund, why is it moribund?

It is because we, the people have allowed it to become so amd we the people are too lethargic to take back the process and hold our officials and the media accountable. It is easier to slag off one side or the other, but what do we do to sieze control of our lives? What do we do about partisan press that cannot differentiate between propaganda and news - on the whole nothing, so we always get the government we deserve, it is just a shame that we don't earn a talented government, rather than a bunch of self seeking, overpaid corrupt lickspittles - did I go too far there?

Partisan, do you believe that I havent thought about it?

Our lives arent games we restart at our birth. We inherit a lot from the past generation, from history.

Do you think that an young afghan deserves the corrupt regimes he got in his country? He one day popped his head out of his mother's belly and the time to grow up and to start understanding the world, he understands that he f***ed for life...

And if we do deserve the governments we have, then we should apply this to everybody, then the civilians arent innocent, but responsible for the present, future and past actions of their governments... And then, they could be targeted by the enemies of their governments...

The implication of such statements would be huge... It would mess our whole vision of the world...

We use this sentence (we have the government we deserve) to say that the government is at the image of the country... Corrupt regime, corrupt people... educated people, educated government (Canada, Sweden etc...)

And we shouldnt add more meanings to this sentence... It's not god's word or something... Just a sentence someone threw to look smart...

If you don´t like your choices run for office yourself.

It´s one of them, put up or shut up instances.


I meet this alot in my current work.
People want safety but ***** about the manner we provide it.
They moan and complain about their soldiers doesn´t do this or do that.

Easy fix, get in do your time and change the system from within.
If you are not willing to do that you have absolutely NO say in how things are done.
Either you get involved and change stuff, or you sit back and complain.
There is really no middleground here.

//KJ.

Your mind is in the right direction, but you dont go very far enough if you want my opinion...

Once again, it's not easy. Everybody can say "I will run for president" but your chances fo success are ridiculously low... You need tons of money, you need a political party to support you... And in some cases, you need a minimum of a democratic environment.

If you run for president in some countries, you get into big trouble... Because the election are rigged.

And of course, even if you do make it, you cant change the world... They shot JFK remember? If you do something powerful people dont want, you are in trouble...

In fact, the only viable solution is to try to get out of the system to start something else, and even this option is denied. They could label you as a separatist and wage war against you...

The next option is to go underground, to live like a criminal in the borders of the system... A good example of this method would be our good old friend Osama Ben Laden... Rich Saudi who went underground to start his own universe...

And about changing the system from within, another way for sure, but it takes a LOT of time... And doesnt work very well, watch operation Valkyrie with Tom Cruise.

And you are right... But most of the time, people sit down and do nothing about it... Not even complaining... And to do something about it, it's too expensive.

Every system we live in is the product of a negotiation. They leave us enough hope and comfort to give up. Or it would never work.

Corruption as an example gives tons of money to some people who fill the role of the ruling elite. And it will crush the big majority of people who will be the poor population.
But it wouldnt work if they dont give them a little hope to make it to be rich someday...

But the day the poor guys understand that it's rigged and that they have no hope... The machine breaks and then it's terrorism, civil unrest, riot

You sound like a real revolutionary there.

LeMask, have you ever considered that everyone is not the same, people have different opinions.

Democracy is about the majority, and the minority gets shafted (in one sense or another). There is no win-win, only a lesser evil.

But the day the poor guys understand that it's rigged and that they have no hope... The machine breaks and then it's terrorism, civil unrest, riot

I think most people realise the system does not work, they whine about it for an hour, and then they just get on with their lives. That's how the world works.

LeMask, you are beginning sound like a bit of an extremist yourself. Chill out for a second and look around yourself. Have a smoke, you'll feel better

If everything was done fairly and in a politically correct environment, nothing would ever get done at all. You can't please everyone, the world isn't perfect and neither are any of us. Life isn't fair and it will never be fair - that's a fact. And the less attention you pay to politics the better you will get on with your life.

Just my 2c.

Is it a bad thing to be revolutionary?

In fact, I feel close to these people who call themselves "alter mondialists" (monde = world). I'm not in any political group or anything. But there is many political groups who want to change the rules for more social justice and less retarded politics...

Life will always be unfair, there will be rich and poor people, lucky and unlucky people, as there is beautiful people and ugly people...

But when there is people richer than whole countries... You know that the system went too far.

And democracy can be fixed. Democracy works better when the level of education is high. Giving free education (as a right) can fix many problems...

But in these days, democracy is in peril as the level of education is dropping...

Originally Posted by LeMask

Is it a bad thing to be revolutionary?

In fact, I feel close to these people who call themselves "alter mondialists" (monde = world). I'm not in any political group or anything. But there is many political groups who want to change the rules for more social justice and less retarded politics...

Life will always be unfair, there will be rich and poor people, lucky and unlucky people, as there is beautiful people and ugly people...

But when there is people richer than whole countries... You know that the system went too far.

And democracy can be fixed. Democracy works better when the level of education is high. Giving free education (as a right) can fix many problems...

But in these days, democracy is in peril as the level of education is dropping...

LeMask is neither an extremist or revolutionary but he is rather a idialist.
"Altar mondialists" can be translated into English as Alter-globalization or alternative globalization. The alter-globalization movement is a cooperative movement designed two protest the direction and perceived adverse economic, political, social, cultural and ecological consequences of neoliberal globalization. Some will surely see this as communism but it is not the same. Altar mondialists is not against the free market.

Now I understand you LeMask. I will never agree with you 100% but as you say Democracy works better when the level of education is high. Giving free education (as a right) can fix many problems ... we completely agree. Just to put things in place; I am not a leftist but a member of the Conservative Party.