A tough few weeks for the New Zealand provincial reconstruction team

headwards

Active member
Hi all,
Thought I would let you know about a couple of unfortunate events in Bamiyan province recently. We have lost five soldiers in two separate incidents in about a three week period.
Two were killed in a firefight from a very difficult position (pretty much ambushed from a cliff very close to and overlooking the road) attempting to capture a bomb maker, and the latest three were victims from a massive IED.

R.I.P

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=979_1345985162
 
The hard part now will be resisting the urge to withdraw troops early, I notice the usual suspects are testing the waters for public support on the matter but it does not appear that they are getting to much sympathy, in fact most of the people I have met seem keen on reinforcing the numbers there just as a sort of F*** you to the Taliban.
 
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Hi all,
Thought I would let you know about a couple of unfortunate events in Bamiyan province recently. We have lost five soldiers in two separate incidents in about a three week period.
Two were killed in a firefight from a very difficult position (pretty much ambushed from a cliff very close to and overlooking the road) attempting to capture a bomb maker, and the latest three were victims from a massive IED.

R.I.P

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=979_1345985162

Sorry to hear that.
R.I.P. Warriors :salute2:
 
Yeah. Im not really sure where I stand on the issue

Why?
Whether you believe they should be there or not is no longer an issue as they are there and to withdraw them now says tells the Taliban that "kill a few" and they will run and I think that is the wrong message to send.

If it were my call I would look at how much additional support we can give them in terms of man power and material in order to complete the task and make it abundantly clear we will only leave on the existing schedule or later if needed.
 
Well as far as dick measuring goes- great lets send a whole lot more troops there, but it isnt going to solve anything.

The Taliban cannot be found/ dug out of their holes and the locals clearly dont want to help, hell I wonder how many of the Afghan troops are taliban themselves. My opinion is that this last disaster signals the end of what the kiwis can accomplish, whether they left tomorrow or in 8 months.
 
Well as far as dick measuring goes- great lets send a whole lot more troops there, but it isnt going to solve anything.

The Taliban cannot be found/ dug out of their holes and the locals clearly dont want to help, hell I wonder how many of the Afghan troops are taliban themselves. My opinion is that this last disaster signals the end of what the kiwis can accomplish, whether they left tomorrow or in 8 months.

I am not suggesting that we hunt down the Taliban I am suggesting that we at least show we can follow through with the job though, to date they have done a good job and to just pack up and run home would seriously undermine what they have achieved to date and put a serious dent in their credibility for the future.

As for the future of the Karzai regime, well I give it 6 months from the time the last western soldier is out the door to the time he is assassinated probably by his own people, but that is a problem for the Afghan people if they do not want to defend the one chance they have to leap into the 21st century then I really couldn't care less.
 
I read an opinion piece in the herald yesterday which gave me food for thought.

Credability in whose eyes? As far as I see it the Afghanis will never respect our aims, methods or what we have tried to achieve, and they will put a radical group back in power as you say. I think only Americans would have the gall to talk **** after eight years commitment to their war.

Because of the Afghani mentality I find it hard to believe we will leave any kind of enduring legacy behind us which is the real tragedy of the situation.

As much as the defence force has tried to make it work, ours and foreign politicians have dragged us into this mess and while they have tried to sugar coat it we are clearly pulling out of a bad investment- which if we had taken a look at the history books we should have seen coming. Lets just leave and get it over with, I cant believe its taken us this long.
I think staying is mostly saving face for politics sake- which is the wrong reason. Politicians were and are too slimy to admit a bad decision and I think thats why we didnt pull out after a year or two of butting our heads against a wall. Sadly it wasnt the politicans who had to die to defend their and our reputations.

If the troops want to stay the course, then by all means they have my full support.
If they are totally over it and dont want to waste another minute or life in that shithole well I totally support that too.

I just hope this is the last time Afghanistan has had to prove its hopelessness at the cost of western lives.
 
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So lets see if I have this right, after 10 years in Afghanistan we lose 6 personnel in a short space of time and suddenly decide it is not worth it and run off home?

As it goes though the government has said today that they will be staying until the end of April as agreed.
 
I heard that.

I don't see why you are trying to spin it so leaving and concievably saving lives sounds like a cowardly option mate.
I respect how you feel, I just dont see any shame in pulling out like some people seem to.

I would make a ballot and leave it up to the troops to vote on it.
 
NZ should stay as long as they planned to. Regardless of what happens it is never good for a country to appear like it is running off with its tail between its legs.
 
I heard that.

I don't see why you are trying to spin it so leaving and concievably saving lives sounds like a cowardly option mate.
I respect how you feel, I just dont see any shame in pulling out like some people seem to.

I would make a ballot and leave it up to the troops to vote on it.

Umm you want to make the army a democracy?

Because calling it quits when the going gets tough is in many ways a cowardly option, I accept it is a no win situation but we have made commitments and should honour them.
 
It doesnt affect the people, just the soldiers.
In fact your argument is that we should stay playing whack a mole for another six months in case someone (who?) thinks we are pussies.
Everyone is leaving - Nobody will give a **** in twelve months what order countries gave up and left in.

But yeah sure lets all keep blindly trucking on with the 'plan' because that has gotten us so far.
Lets not forget though the airport there is getting re done which means the plan is already screwed to start with.
 
Man why so angry?

I do not disagree with your assessment of the situation but I believe we have made commitments as part of an international group and should see them through.

In the mean time we need to bolster those already there with what ever we can to ensure their remaining time there is as secure/safe as possible.
 
Sorry Monty my tone was off.
I think your points are valid and well thought out. I'm just exasperated by the situation.

You and the PM are probably right in the course of action being taken, I just dont think there is any point in wasting more effort and money.
 
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