Topic changed -- Japanese atrocities vs Nazi Atrocities. - Page 3




 
--
 
November 23rd, 2004  
Doppleganger
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by the_13th_redneck
Quote:
Originally Posted by gladius
The problem with Japan's atrocities versus Germany's is that, althought Germany did alot of atrocities, they were mainly commited by the SS. Most of the common German soldiers conducted themselves arcording to the rules of war, and behaved well. That is NOT the case with the Japanese, with them the atrocities were done mostly by the common soldier.
Yup you got that right.
The non SS German troops were upstanding dudes. Too bad they had to be foe. The Japanese were nuts.
That's not exactly true. Some ordinary Heer (Army) units also committed atrocities, especially on the Eastern Front. In fact, due to the savagery and intensity of the fighting there ALL units from both sides committed what on the Western Front would be termed atrocities. For example, both sides routinely shot prisoners of war.

Also you have to distinguish between the Security SS and the Waffen SS. The latter were a legitimate fighting force that took part in many of the most climatic battles of the Eastern Front alongside the Heer. Moreover, German commanders at the highest levels of command must have been aware of the 'Final Solution' if not totally aware of it's consequences. The idea that the regular German Army can escape the taint of atrocities cannot be upheld.
November 24th, 2004  
godofthunder9010
 
 
One of the things that seems to earn the Nazi attrocities and exterminations greater notice is mostly how well they were documented by the Nazis themselves for one. For another, Christianity is confronted with some very anti-Christian things being committed by a nation of Christian believers ... some of it in the name of Christianity.

Sadly, the European-Christian World is willing to give the "heathen" Japanese nonbelievers the benefit of the doubt where they shouldn't.

Lastly, China takes the bloody shirt of Japan's crimes in WW2, waves it around and starts threatening Japan -- this leaves Japan with an excuse that to admit to warcrimes is to somehow give in to Chinese aggression and propaganda. That and they're unwilling to lose face.
November 25th, 2004  
Ezechiel
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by godofthunder9010
Lastly, China takes the bloody shirt of Japan's crimes in WW2, waves it around and starts threatening Japan -- this leaves Japan with an excuse that to admit to warcrimes is to somehow give in to Chinese aggression and propaganda. That and they're unwilling to lose face.
Disagree, If u see today situation u can give me an example how the China government specially trying to threaten Japanese to do something to apologies. But on the other hand China signed friendly agreement with Japanese and never did really trying to be their enemies officially.

Japanese did not make any excuse based on the "Chinese threatening". First, Diaoyu Islands, who at first sent their military scout ship to that place and cliamed it as theirs? The Japanese. Did Chinhese threaten them?

Second, textbook censorship. Did China officially threaten Japan not to do so? no.

Third, Worshiping yasukuni war shrine. Showing full disrespect to all the Asia nations.

Forth, when China military get stronger (Remember China did not threaten Japan). Japanese now claimed that China wanted to attack them. Then planned to change constitution, build proper troops and blablablabla. Did China treathen them? What's wrong with building military?

Ok, maybe the "Submarine incident" recently could be a reason why u say so. But this is just a small problem. But the JApanese started to made China an enemy and China government did not threaten them and STILL HAVE TO APOLOGIZE? WHAT FOR?

Japanese juz eliborate the story no matter what. Even if u want to prevent urself not to show any threatening thing to them, they will still find excuse to archieve their objective no matter what. So how can u say China shouldn't have do something like this? The Japanese juz cunning

I am fully incomfort with this, when I see the picture of Nanjing massacre again and again and read the articles. I wonder why today the China side can still be so silent about it. This shows how forgiveness the Chinese r and how cunning and coward the Japanese r!

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by rocco
the difference is that for japan they were just killing and abusing anyone in their path.

wheras the nazis were choosing those they didnt like, imo "scapegoats", they rounded them up like cattle and massacred and tortured them, this is where we first see the term "Genocide" being used. infact the word was invented to describe what the germans did.

why the jews plight gets more attention?
well because they have made it a strong issue, and followed it... even though the paltry compensation they get will never make up for lost loved ones and pshcyological pain (if ure parents are children of holocaust survivors you will know what i mean) its still more than what the chinese have got, and all the power to these people.
also another reason why i think the chinese havent got the recognition nor payment from japan or the west is because as you guys should recall after WW2 communism became the enemy, china became the enemy of the west, and the west was willing to forgive japan for its attrocities and help its economy because it feared the rise of communism.
I must tell u, Nanjing massacre is a "gather, torture and kill" policy.

If u did read the Japanese atrocities well. Japanese atrocities from the psychological side were even worse. How worst? I show u :

1) Comfort Girls project -- Japanese caught and gather women from all aroung Asia region, Chinese the most, they prisoned them in a building and made them in to sexual slavery. One day they have to be raped by many Japanese soldiers endlessly for 10 Hourse a day, Is this not psychological torture? They were survivors of this can tell u all the beast act of Japanese!

2) Biochemical weapon experiments -- 731 troops like example, they caught local civilians and tested many biological experiment on them. They who being tortured got many kind of virus and was so suffering before they died.

3) Medic practice on civilians without Morphine or Drugs! -- They caught civilians and let the medic practice surgery on them without putting drugs, then the victims will be cut stomach and pain until died, even u did not die, they do surgery for second time.

4) Western army enslavement -- The hostages like English armies and many other Europeans armies were not given food and drinks. The Japanese tortued them until they was thin until like skeleton. I saw that video before, how beast act were the Japanese! Do u think this only happen in Nazi? Japanese also! Morever all of them were forced to built railway of death in Malaya. This even worse!

5) Japanese "3 empty policy" (Kill to empty,rob to empty, burn to empty). The Japanese lauch this plan in the Northeast China. Yes they went along path, saw villages, found women, rape. Kill the whole familiy, rob everything and burn. Then continue. This policy killed 2 Millions Chinese in a short time (Not sure how long, but few months only).

6) Many more,go check urself. Nazi do not have will to beat them.

7 Millions Jews death vs Chinese 30 Millions death. We can clearly see who's got the worst.
--
November 26th, 2004  
MadeInChina
 
it is clear this is all of japan's fault in the first place

The japanese people, surely enough, are mostly innocent of this, but their leaders, some extremesists, and radicals are so evil in theri mind they actually enjoyed looking at the najing masscre.

Ive known some chiense buddies studying in japan, the first thing they said when they came back was: nuke them all!!!

The japanese openly disgriminate more than 28 races of other asians stydying, making money, immrgation in japan

the japnese government is full of crap, seriously wrong in their diplomatic relations with other asian countries

Weird, at times like this it feels proud to be chinese
November 26th, 2004  
Young Winston
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doppleganger
Quote:
Originally Posted by the_13th_redneck
Quote:
Originally Posted by gladius
The problem with Japan's atrocities versus Germany's is that, althought Germany did alot of atrocities, they were mainly commited by the SS. Most of the common German soldiers conducted themselves arcording to the rules of war, and behaved well. That is NOT the case with the Japanese, with them the atrocities were done mostly by the common soldier.
Yup you got that right.
The non SS German troops were upstanding dudes. Too bad they had to be foe. The Japanese were nuts.
That's not exactly true. Some ordinary Heer (Army) units also committed atrocities, especially on the Eastern Front. In fact, due to the savagery and intensity of the fighting there ALL units from both sides committed what on the Western Front would be termed atrocities. For example, both sides routinely shot prisoners of war.

Also you have to distinguish between the Security SS and the Waffen SS. The latter were a legitimate fighting force that took part in many of the most climatic battles of the Eastern Front alongside the Heer. Moreover, German commanders at the highest levels of command must have been aware of the 'Final Solution' if not totally aware of it's consequences. The idea that the regular German Army can escape the taint of atrocities cannot be upheld.
I agree with Doppleganger on the point that many of the ordinary German units were involved in some pretty bad stuff on the Eastern Front. They all weren't "fine upstanding dudes". It wasn't just the SS units. The German Police also had a hand in some shocking acts as well.

Read the book "Official Secrets" by Richard Breitmman

first published in 1998 ISBN 0 670 88468 5 (Viking)

As far as the Australian soldiers were concerned the Japanese were far worse regarding atrocities.

Some of you guys should read some books. Don't just look up stuff on the net.
November 26th, 2004  
Ezechiel
 
I receive a news to day

63 Japanese civilians appealed to local court that Japan Prime Minister Koizumi had against the law (Religion and Politic separated in the constitution) by worshiping the Yuzukuni war shrine but lost the appeal.

The reason of the decision was, Koizumi and his Followers (Parliment members) were not worshiping under the name of politic. The were not found any guilty for that.

The 63 Japanese civilians were including local Christians, Buddhists, and the heir of the Japanese armies in WW II.

I should say now. Many Japanese today were racist against other Asians especially Chinese. That's no way u say MAJORITY WERE LIKE PEACE AND A SMALL BUNCH OF EXTREMIST WERE THERE ONLY. Becoz those who really like peace were also a small bunch as well.

Today we see how dirty are the Japanese politics. Such obvious wrong doings were not given a proper Judge becoz the POlitic power involved in. Today many Chinese victims also appealed to the local Japanese court about the incidents in WW II but none of them ever win the case (I heard only one won it,a Chinese forced labour sent to Japan, but the Japanese government appealed to rejudge the case)
November 26th, 2004  
godofthunder9010
 
 
I don't think anybody is saying that the vast majority of Japan and its people weren't somehow involved in warcrimes. Racism was so extreme that you had no rights as a human being if you were not Japanese in many instances. I doubt many people in the West are fully aware of the extent of their warcrimes.

You can compare Japan of WW2 to Germany and their extermination programs and compare them to the Ottoman Turks attempt to exterminate the Armenians. All three cases are horrible beyond imagination. All 3 focussed on genocide and enmass slavery. All three attempted to achieve their goals differently.

Remember one thing, I'm on your side. I think that Japan owes one big fat appology for its actions. I try in my mind to figure out how it can be done. They've been so absolutely stubborn on the matter that I doubt its going to solve itself anytime soon. That said, there are those Japanese who are ashamed of their nations defiance on this issue. We have to hope that viewpoint eventually wins out. I do think that modern Japan uses the image of an aggressive China as an excuse -- a very poor excuse.
November 27th, 2004  
redcoat
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AussieNick
Yeah the Japanese were terrible to captured soldiers. Unlike the Germans who put many uniformed soldiers into prisoner of war camps and treated them comparativly well (i know that isn't true across the board, but it seems to be the majority).
.
In the west yes.
However in the east, of the 5 million Soviet POW's captured by the Germans 3.5 million died in captivity due to ill treatment.
November 27th, 2004  
rocco
 
Quote:
7 Millions Jews death vs Chinese 30 Millions death. We can clearly see who's got the worst.
proportion wise, jews got it much worse.
November 27th, 2004  
godofthunder9010
 
 
The statement that one was worse than the other opens the door for debate. The underlying issue is that both Germany's and Japan's actions were very very wrong.