Topic changed -- Japanese atrocities vs Nazi Atrocities.

the_13th_redneck said:
gladius said:
The problem with Japan's atrocities versus Germany's is that, althought Germany did alot of atrocities, they were mainly commited by the SS. Most of the common German soldiers conducted themselves arcording to the rules of war, and behaved well. That is NOT the case with the Japanese, with them the atrocities were done mostly by the common soldier.
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Yup you got that right.
The non SS German troops were upstanding dudes. Too bad they had to be foe. The Japanese were nuts.
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That's not exactly true. Some ordinary Heer (Army) units also committed atrocities, especially on the Eastern Front. In fact, due to the savagery and intensity of the fighting there ALL units from both sides committed what on the Western Front would be termed atrocities. For example, both sides routinely shot prisoners of war.

Also you have to distinguish between the Security SS and the Waffen SS. The latter were a legitimate fighting force that took part in many of the most climatic battles of the Eastern Front alongside the Heer. Moreover, German commanders at the highest levels of command must have been aware of the 'Final Solution' if not totally aware of it's consequences. The idea that the regular German Army can escape the taint of atrocities cannot be upheld.
 
One of the things that seems to earn the Nazi attrocities and exterminations greater notice is mostly how well they were documented by the Nazis themselves for one. For another, Christianity is confronted with some very anti-Christian things being committed by a nation of Christian believers ... some of it in the name of Christianity.

Sadly, the European-Christian World is willing to give the "heathen" Japanese nonbelievers the benefit of the doubt where they shouldn't.

Lastly, China takes the bloody shirt of Japan's crimes in WW2, waves it around and starts threatening Japan -- this leaves Japan with an excuse that to admit to warcrimes is to somehow give in to Chinese aggression and propaganda. That and they're unwilling to lose face.
 
godofthunder9010 said:
Lastly, China takes the bloody shirt of Japan's crimes in WW2, waves it around and starts threatening Japan -- this leaves Japan with an excuse that to admit to warcrimes is to somehow give in to Chinese aggression and propaganda. That and they're unwilling to lose face.
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Disagree, If u see today situation u can give me an example how the China government specially trying to threaten Japanese to do something to apologies. But on the other hand China signed friendly agreement with Japanese and never did really trying to be their enemies officially.

Japanese did not make any excuse based on the "Chinese threatening". First, Diaoyu Islands, who at first sent their military scout ship to that place and cliamed it as theirs? The Japanese. Did Chinhese threaten them?

Second, textbook censorship. Did China officially threaten Japan not to do so? no.

Third, Worshiping yasukuni war shrine. Showing full disrespect to all the Asia nations.

Forth, when China military get stronger (Remember China did not threaten Japan). Japanese now claimed that China wanted to attack them. Then planned to change constitution, build proper troops and blablablabla. Did China treathen them? What's wrong with building military?

Ok, maybe the "Submarine incident" recently could be a reason why u say so. But this is just a small problem. But the JApanese started to made China an enemy and China government did not threaten them and STILL HAVE TO APOLOGIZE? WHAT FOR?

Japanese juz eliborate the story no matter what. Even if u want to prevent urself not to show any threatening thing to them, they will still find excuse to archieve their objective no matter what. So how can u say China shouldn't have do something like this? The Japanese juz cunning

I am fully incomfort with this, when I see the picture of Nanjing massacre again and again and read the articles. I wonder why today the China side can still be so silent about it. This shows how forgiveness the Chinese r and how cunning and coward the Japanese r!

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rocco said:
the difference is that for japan they were just killing and abusing anyone in their path.

wheras the nazis were choosing those they didnt like, imo "scapegoats", they rounded them up like cattle and massacred and tortured them, this is where we first see the term "Genocide" being used. infact the word was invented to describe what the germans did.

why the jews plight gets more attention?
well because they have made it a strong issue, and followed it... even though the paltry compensation they get will never make up for lost loved ones and pshcyological pain (if ure parents are children of holocaust survivors you will know what i mean) its still more than what the chinese have got, and all the power to these people.
also another reason why i think the chinese havent got the recognition nor payment from japan or the west is because as you guys should recall after WW2 communism became the enemy, china became the enemy of the west, and the west was willing to forgive japan for its attrocities and help its economy because it feared the rise of communism.
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I must tell u, Nanjing massacre is a "gather, torture and kill" policy.

If u did read the Japanese atrocities well. Japanese atrocities from the psychological side were even worse. How worst? I show u :

1) Comfort Girls project -- Japanese caught and gather women from all aroung Asia region, Chinese the most, they prisoned them in a building and made them in to sexual slavery. One day they have to be raped by many Japanese soldiers endlessly for 10 Hourse a day, Is this not psychological torture? They were survivors of this can tell u all the beast act of Japanese!

2) Biochemical weapon experiments -- 731 troops like example, they caught local civilians and tested many biological experiment on them. They who being tortured got many kind of virus and was so suffering before they died.

3) Medic practice on civilians without Morphine or Drugs! -- They caught civilians and let the medic practice surgery on them without putting drugs, then the victims will be cut stomach and pain until died, even u did not die, they do surgery for second time.

4) Western army enslavement -- The hostages like English armies and many other Europeans armies were not given food and drinks. The Japanese tortued them until they was thin until like skeleton. I saw that video before, how beast act were the Japanese! Do u think this only happen in Nazi? Japanese also! Morever all of them were forced to built railway of death in Malaya. This even worse!

5) Japanese "3 empty policy" (Kill to empty,rob to empty, burn to empty). The Japanese lauch this plan in the Northeast China. Yes they went along path, saw villages, found women, rape. Kill the whole familiy, rob everything and burn. Then continue. This policy killed 2 Millions Chinese in a short time (Not sure how long, but few months only).

6) Many more,go check urself. Nazi do not have will to beat them.

7 Millions Jews death vs Chinese 30 Millions death. We can clearly see who's got the worst.
 
it is clear this is all of japan's fault in the first place

The japanese people, surely enough, are mostly innocent of this, but their leaders, some extremesists, and radicals are so evil in theri mind they actually enjoyed looking at the najing masscre.

Ive known some chiense buddies studying in japan, the first thing they said when they came back was: nuke them all!!!

The japanese openly disgriminate more than 28 races of other asians stydying, making money, immrgation in japan

the japnese government is full of crap, seriously wrong in their diplomatic relations with other asian countries

Weird, at times like this it feels proud to be chinese :twisted:
 
Doppleganger said:
the_13th_redneck said:
gladius said:
The problem with Japan's atrocities versus Germany's is that, althought Germany did alot of atrocities, they were mainly commited by the SS. Most of the common German soldiers conducted themselves arcording to the rules of war, and behaved well. That is NOT the case with the Japanese, with them the atrocities were done mostly by the common soldier.
Click to expand...

Yup you got that right.
The non SS German troops were upstanding dudes. Too bad they had to be foe. The Japanese were nuts.
Click to expand...

That's not exactly true. Some ordinary Heer (Army) units also committed atrocities, especially on the Eastern Front. In fact, due to the savagery and intensity of the fighting there ALL units from both sides committed what on the Western Front would be termed atrocities. For example, both sides routinely shot prisoners of war.

Also you have to distinguish between the Security SS and the Waffen SS. The latter were a legitimate fighting force that took part in many of the most climatic battles of the Eastern Front alongside the Heer. Moreover, German commanders at the highest levels of command must have been aware of the 'Final Solution' if not totally aware of it's consequences. The idea that the regular German Army can escape the taint of atrocities cannot be upheld.
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I agree with Doppleganger on the point that many of the ordinary German units were involved in some pretty bad stuff on the Eastern Front. They all weren't "fine upstanding dudes". It wasn't just the SS units. The German Police also had a hand in some shocking acts as well.

Read the book "Official Secrets" by Richard Breitmman

first published in 1998 ISBN 0 670 88468 5 (Viking)

As far as the Australian soldiers were concerned the Japanese were far worse regarding atrocities.

Some of you guys should read some books. Don't just look up stuff on the net.
 
I receive a news to day

63 Japanese civilians appealed to local court that Japan Prime Minister Koizumi had against the law (Religion and Politic separated in the constitution) by worshiping the Yuzukuni war shrine but lost the appeal.

The reason of the decision was, Koizumi and his Followers (Parliment members) were not worshiping under the name of politic. The were not found any guilty for that.

The 63 Japanese civilians were including local Christians, Buddhists, and the heir of the Japanese armies in WW II.

I should say now. Many Japanese today were racist against other Asians especially Chinese. That's no way u say MAJORITY WERE LIKE PEACE AND A SMALL BUNCH OF EXTREMIST WERE THERE ONLY. Becoz those who really like peace were also a small bunch as well.

Today we see how dirty are the Japanese politics. Such obvious wrong doings were not given a proper Judge becoz the POlitic power involved in. Today many Chinese victims also appealed to the local Japanese court about the incidents in WW II but none of them ever win the case (I heard only one won it,a Chinese forced labour sent to Japan, but the Japanese government appealed to rejudge the case)
 
I don't think anybody is saying that the vast majority of Japan and its people weren't somehow involved in warcrimes. Racism was so extreme that you had no rights as a human being if you were not Japanese in many instances. I doubt many people in the West are fully aware of the extent of their warcrimes.

You can compare Japan of WW2 to Germany and their extermination programs and compare them to the Ottoman Turks attempt to exterminate the Armenians. All three cases are horrible beyond imagination. All 3 focussed on genocide and enmass slavery. All three attempted to achieve their goals differently.

Remember one thing, I'm on your side. I think that Japan owes one big fat appology for its actions. I try in my mind to figure out how it can be done. They've been so absolutely stubborn on the matter that I doubt its going to solve itself anytime soon. That said, there are those Japanese who are ashamed of their nations defiance on this issue. We have to hope that viewpoint eventually wins out. I do think that modern Japan uses the image of an aggressive China as an excuse -- a very poor excuse.
 
AussieNick said:
Yeah the Japanese were terrible to captured soldiers. Unlike the Germans who put many uniformed soldiers into prisoner of war camps and treated them comparativly well (i know that isn't true across the board, but it seems to be the majority).
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In the west yes.
However in the east, of the 5 million Soviet POW's captured by the Germans 3.5 million died in captivity due to ill treatment.
 
The statement that one was worse than the other opens the door for debate. The underlying issue is that both Germany's and Japan's actions were very very wrong.
 
gladius said:
If you ask other countries who where take over by the Japanese, the Phillipines, Malaysia, ect. they will tell you how bad the Japanese really were and all the atrocities they comitted.

Japan is in total denial about this, their weak excuse is they got nuked, so in their eyes that make everything they did okay.

The problem with Japan's atrocities versus Germany's is that, althought Germany did alot of atrocities, they were mainly commited by the SS. Most of the common German soldiers conducted themselves arcording to the rules of war, and behaved well. That is NOT the case with the Japanese, with them the atrocities were done mostly by the common soldier.
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I totally agree with your opinion!
I have just read the bestseller book "Bond Of Brother ", the common German soldier won the respect from Allied despite of the failure of Nazi in the war.
 
The Japanese were worse... maybe they didn't target a specific group like the Nazis did, but overall brutality of the common soldier and officers was simply horrifying.
Human tests etc. were standard. They would capture mostly Koreans (because of their proximity to Japan) and would conduct live human tests on it... such as poisons and antidotes tests... basically live lab rats.
Sadistic lot really.
A Japanese commander in the Philippines I believe was convicted of eating the organs of American prisoners.
It is seriously sick stuff. But to them largely, anyone not Japanese, was barely human.
Of course forced labor was the order of the day for many. As the war went bad for the Japanese, they did what the Germans did, force people from captured lands to serve in their ranks.

As for the German regulars committing atrocities, it was a pretty brutal war in the Eastern Front. I don't know if their level of crime committing was well beyond the ordinary.
 
as for the prisioners, they deserve it for not serving their country to the fullest gratitude.

as for the deaths, any army would do so.
 
Okay I understand you are trying to use the Bushido Code as a referance towards the POW's not fulfilling their duties. However if you look at Bushido it was older than the 2nd World War. Russian Prisoners in the Japan Russo War were treated well. Bushido was bastardized by the officers to follow.

Pray tell. Where in Bushido does it encourge the beheadings and bayonetings of civilians? The impressment of young women as sex slaves? To enhance the samauri spirit?

The people of Japan were lead astray by a Military. I will agree with that. But to deny the atrocities is blindness.
 
The bulk of the people of Japan will probably never acknowledge that Japan did most of what they did. That is unconscionable and utterly disgusting -- the one and only thing that the Japanese as a people do that really really bothers me. You don't organize a system that rapes each of the estimated 200,000 women up to 40 times a day, walk away and say, "We did nothing wrong." The rape of Nanking happened and it was only one of many cases of Japan doing unthinkable things.

Any person from Japan ought to have the decency to be ashamed and just acknowledge that Japan did some absolutely terrible things. Whether or not you are directly involved, your country was. You country is denying absolutely everything they can deny. The people of Japan ought to be embarassed that their leaders would deny everything and vote the filthy bastards out for it. I don't understand why Japan does it the way the do.

By contrast, Germany and its people have behaved themselves much more decently on this. Their government has done many many things to repair the damage (in Russia's case, they took their payback on East Germany). They do not try to tell everyone that they didn't do it. That would be dishonorable, dishonest and a disgrace.
 
godofthunder9010 said:
The bulk of the people of Japan will probably never acknowledge that Japan did most of what they did. That is unconscionable and utterly disgusting -- the one and only thing that the Japanese as a people do that really really bothers me. You don't organize a system that rapes each of the estimated 200,000 women up to 40 times a day, walk away and say, "We did nothing wrong." The rape of Nanking happened and it was only one of many cases of Japan doing unthinkable things.

Any person from Japan ought to have the decency to be ashamed and just acknowledge that Japan did some absolutely terrible things. Whether or not you are directly involved, your country was. You country is denying absolutely everything they can deny. The people of Japan ought to be embarassed that their leaders would deny everything and vote the filthy bastards out for it. I don't understand why Japan does it the way the do.

By contrast, Germany and its people have behaved themselves much more decently on this. Their government has done many many things to repair the damage (in Russia's case, they took their payback on East Germany). They do not try to tell everyone that they didn't do it. That would be dishonorable, dishonest and a disgrace.
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That is also why it's difficult to forgive the Japanese for what they did because they won't admit it! If the attitude was changed, Japanese and their government educate their people of what happened in WWII and they sincerely apologize to all who were wronged, I don't think anyone would still be this angry at them.
 
AND, japan should not continue to worship dead soldiers ,espeically war criminals anymore, that is sort of encouraging the re-born of ultru-nationalism in japan..


and , they should not change their text book, avoiding their mistakes, arguing the "advantages" of invading other asian nations
 
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