Top Middle East Militaries

April 20th, 2007  

Topic: Top Middle East Militaries

This is my list in terms of economy, natural resources, population, training, domestic arms industry, weapons systems, and number of troops all which are key areas a nation must have if they wish to become military power.

1) Iran/Israel (They have the largest domestic arms industry, Iran has larger economy but Israel also recieve a lot of aid from America, and they have highly educated populations, well trained and highly motivated militaries, Iran has the advantage of natural resources and larger economy so they don't rely on foreign aid like Israel. Their advanced arms industry, large economies, well educated population, high training and technological know-how makes them well above the rest.)
2) Egypt/Turkey (Egypt and Turkey do have modern military but most of their current equipment is American thus makes it heavly reliant on import, they don't have the level of domestic arms industry like Iran and Israel, furthermore what ever weapons they produce like the M1A1 it is done under liscense and the parts come pre-made they are just put together by Egypt and Turkey. They also don't have the economy of Iran and its huge natural resources and though Turkey and Egypt get American aid Israel still get more aid than either one of them. Their lack of high level of arms industry and natural resources makes them 2nd tiers, but their modern militaries, high training and technological competency makes them above the others.)
3) Syria/Saudi Arabia (Syria and Saudi Arabia don't have the level of arms industry like Iran and Israel. Though Saudi Arabia has huge natural resources and modern military they don't have the level of training and skill compared to Iran, Israel, Turkey, and Egypt not even the level of training and skill of Syria. Saudi Arabia is heavly western dependent in its technological know-how thus handicapping it in 3 vital areas arms industry, training, and technological know-how. Though Syria has a higher level of self sufficiency and training, they lack the natural resources and modern military of Saudi Arabia thus having its own short-comings. Which make them 3 tiers/)
4) Algeria/Libya (Algeria and Libya have fairly modern and decent military and both recently started to upgrade and shop on the market for modern arms. The Training and level of skill of their armies are in question, and both lack any meaningful arms industry. This puts them 4 tiers.)

5) The minor Gulf states/ Lebanon, and Morroco (These nations don't have any arms industry, no large population, no well trained militaries, heavily reliant on Western technology and training. Though the Gulf countries have natural resources, and modern military....the size of their militaries, skill, and reliance on Western technicians make them a push-over to the heavy weights like Israel, Iran, Egypt, Turkey, and Syria. Lebanon has educated population but is still recovering from wars, no meaningful military, arms industry, and natural resources. Morroco has no arms industry, natural resources, highly trained military.)

6) Iraq ( You guys know why its last, still in midst of war, heavly dependent of U.S. no meaning full military.)

Name your own lists if you disagree and back up why you have them in that order, I am interested to see what others think and their picks!
April 20th, 2007  
I think you have missed Jordan off your list, although they appear under resourced they do have a well trained military. I would definitely rate them at 3 or maybe 2 on your list.
April 20th, 2007  
You are right Monty B, Jordan falls under 3 with Syria and Saudi Arabia. They are highly trained and skilled like the syrians but do not possess the arms industry, natural resources, and large population like the such countries as Iran, Israel, Egypt, and Turkey.
April 22nd, 2007  
Israel is in a class by itself in the mideast. It has proven the ability to successfully withstand the combined might of all its neighbors, repeatedly.

Part of that is because Israel's military is "western" oriented. Arab militaries tend more toward the old soviet model which minimizes such intangibles as initiative and personal drive/self motivation and maximizes such constraints as promoting party loyalty over ability and requiring inflexible adherence to orders on the micro manage level of detail.

In straight up military terms, no arab nation is able to field anything that could match a western military, regardless of potential numbers disparity favoring the arab nation. The only possible exception would be the Turks. Man for man, the Turk can produce good reliable fighters. The main problem for the Turk military is that it hasn't been tested as a military in large operations against another nation in living memory. That can tend to create areas of fragility in a military structure.

As a standard issue military, what the Iraqi had is about as good as you will see from most of the arab world. The same issues that made it easy to destroy will be common practice in other arab armies.

There is an area where both Iran and Syria have power though and that is in the covert/terror war models. Both Syria and Iran have large, semi independent, well funded and highly organized quazi military organizations already pre deployed to target areas of strategic interest.

No arab nation nor any coalition, alliance or combination of arab nations will be able to produce a standing military able to successfully operate against a western expeditionary force, regardless of population base, economy or technology. This may change in the future, but that's how it is now.
April 22nd, 2007  
I agree Israel is in a class by itself capability wise.

Saudi Arabia should be higher, other than that seems ok to me.
April 22nd, 2007  
Grimmy summed it up pretty good IMO.

Israel is the only military force in the mideast that is to me reckoned with in open warfare.
The others are possibly on par with the Iraqi insurgency.
Saudi Arabia and Jordan and a few other nations depend too heavily on western equipment.
Although good enough in THAT AOR the western nations never sells their top notch gear to these nations.
It might be simplistic but an expeditionary force from the western world would make a clean sweep in the region in conventional warfare.
April 22nd, 2007  
Unfortunately, the paradigm of power is shifting from conventional standing armies to exactly the kind of covert terror organizations that both Syria and Iran have produced.
April 22nd, 2007  
^^^ More accurate than an Excalibur round.
April 22nd, 2007  
Originally Posted by Grimmy
Unfortunately, the paradigm of power is shifting from conventional standing armies to exactly the kind of covert terror organizations that both Syria and Iran have produced.
Agreed, so what is the sulution in your opinion?
As we need to keep the initiative , whatīs your thoughts?
How do we obtain and retain the initiative and how do we get enough troops trained in the tactics requiered?

Damn, donīt look now but we are actually nearing an interesting discussion here.

April 22nd, 2007  
I assume that most here will consider my opinions on such issues to be well within the lunatic fringe but I'll put it out here anyway.


Those who wont play nice out of a basic sense of decency must be made to behave by knowing fear.

If they want to side step traditional standing militaries and go to covert terror organizations that purposely target civilians then their civilians must be made to pay an even greater cost in blood.

They hit us with a terror attack, we vaporize one of their cities.
They vaporize one of our cities with a smuggled bomb, they cease to exist as a people everywhere on this planet.

This is a hard world with hard people playing hard ball. The warmfuzzies and carebears need to sit down and shut up and let hard men make the hard decisions to keep the hard wolves at bey, or the warmfuzzies and carebears need to be eliminated so that the rest of the culture has a fighting chance at long term survival.

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