Tom Gross on the forgotten Rachels

Once again we are back to the same old argument that two wrongs don't make a right and oddly enough even if you scale up the number of wrongs it still doesn't make a right.

Who was better Joseph Stalin or Adolf Hitler, would you prefer a job hunting for mines with a hammer or checking the temperature of nuclear reactor cores with a rectal thermometer?

But in terms of Israel and Palestine it is becoming easier and easier to support the Palestinian cause simply because of Israels strange desire to go overboard about everything and I hate to be the bearer of bad news but I doubt there are too many here who are not beginning to see the lack of good faith negotiations from both sides.

Yes we know the Palestinians are killing Israeli civilians and it is wrong but Israel is killing Palestinians civilians too and is is equally wrong.
 
I dunno if you noticed Ben, but your last attempted trolling about a "solution" to the Israeli problem went without answer. The main reason being that we all know the answer, but we know that Israel has no desire to hear the truth or abide by the rules, so what is the sense of answering. It is essentially a criminal state with a thinly disguised criminal agenda.

In reply to this latest attempt to get sympathy for a self imposed problem. People are waking up, and it's all because of the attention bought upon Israel by this continuous and concerted pro Zionist propaganda. It is this pathetic and continuous lying and over reaction that is killing Israel's hopes of any sympathy and support, far better than any efforts by the Palestinians and their supporters.

Israel is living in the past, cheap movie cameras and easy access to the outside world via the internet has uncovered Israel's criminal activities and disabled their imposed censorship, the world can see what is going on and no amount of lies can cover or excuse their behavior.

The Answer


It Doesn't Work Any More
 
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Still doesnt change the fact that there is no legitimate justification for killing civilians. It seems like according to you the palestinians can commit cold blooded murder and be let off the hook
 
Still doesnt change the fact that there is no legitimate justification for killing civilians. It seems like according to you the palestinians can commit cold blooded murder and be let off the hook
Oh, you mean like this,...
IDF Shoot Palestinian Farmer Harvesting Crop


Whoops,Sorry,... they were IDF if I'm not mistaken,... and they did it knowingly in front of a team of International observers.

I guess you are too young to know of the Stern Gang and others of their ilk, who actively committed terrorist acts against the mandated administrators of Palestine (Britain), in support of Israels theft of Palestinian land.

I thought that at least you would have had the common sense and decency to check how many Palestinian civilians have been killed by Israeli forces and "peaceful" settlers and compare it with the number of Israelis killed by the Palestinians. That alone would have shot the reasoning for your argument down in flames.

The Palestinians , like the French Marquis are merely resisting the occupation of what is legitimately theirs.

Remember?...
israel-palestine-map++16-e1302391419273.jpg
 
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Senojekips

Its not completely his fault. The Media is the USA is largely controlled by pro-Israel sympathizers which effectively block out anything too critical of Israel. Annoying tidbits about how the Israeli military, security, and armed settlers (which are armed by the government) kill FAR more innocent Palestine civilians than visa versa don't make it the regular news. Of course if a single Israeli civilian is scratched by a Palestinian group we hear about it for 24/7.

The US media is so blatantly bias when it comes to its ME coverage you can actually get a more balanced picture of whats going on by reading the Jerusalem Post.
 
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no offence, but that video looks staged. it says a farmer is shot. i watched the whole video. where was he shot?

and of course i know who the stern gang were. i know just as much history about this region as you do, i'm well read on authentic historians like benny morris. terrorism by dissident groups is not okay and i do not justify anything they did.
 
no offence, but that video looks staged. it says a farmer is shot. i watched the whole video. where was he shot?

and of course i know who the stern gang were. i know just as much history about this region as you do, i'm well read on authentic historians like benny morris. terrorism by dissident groups is not okay and i do not justify anything they did.


Let me guess....you watch Fox-News, right?
 
No, i do not.

And you still define Lehi (the Stern gang) as a dissident group involved in terrorism?

Not being biased by Fox-News, and knowing as much history about the region mentioned as you claim, I suppose you are aware of the fact that most of the members of Lehi (as their colleagues in Irgun and Haganah) was declared righteous men, and given honours for their contribution to the founding of a certain state...

Historia Munus Victor Est.
 
no offence, but that video looks staged. it says a farmer is shot. i watched the whole video. where was he shot?
It happened at Khan Younis, on the 31st Mar 2009. It has been documented by both the international Press and various humanitarian organisations.

Here's another also shot at Khan Younis. You blather on as if this is a one of, situation, you are obviously in denial. I guess you powers of observation also declared the videos of 9/11 as "dodgy" too. Here's another,...
IDF shoot Farmer at Khan Younis

Tags: war-crimes human-rights israel IDF gaza war
Description: Israeli Military Shoot Gaza Farmer - 18th February 2009 Israeli forces shot a twenty year-old Palestinian farmer as he worked his land in the village of Al-Faraheen, east of Khan Younis in the Gaza Strip. International Human Rights Activists were accompanying the group of farmers at the time as they worked approximately 500m from the Green Line. Mohammad al - Breem, 20, was shot in the right leg as the farmers, together with the international Human Rights Activists, attempted to leave the area having worked on their land for 2 hours in full view of the Israeli forces situated along the Green Line. As the farmers were loading up the parsley and spinach from the agricultural lands shots were fired from Israeli forces on the border. Mohammad was shot in the right leg and evacuated, while still under fire, to hospital. International Human Rights Activists have repeatedly witnessed Palestinian farmers being shot at by Israeli forces as they attempt to work on agricultural land situated within 700m of the Green Line. On Tuesday 27th January 2009, in Al Faraheen, Israeli forces shot at several farmers, killing a 27 year old farmer.

and of course i know who the stern gang were. i know just as much history about this region as you do, i'm well read on authentic historians like benny morris. terrorism by dissident groups is not okay and i do not justify anything they did.
Well why are you wailing about the Palestinians resisting these Israelis who are clearly occupying their country? A country taken by force. You obviously have absolutely no idea of the history of this region.
 
Posted separately and without formatting, as one single post exceeded the 10,000 character limit

Here's an incomplete list showing some of the Terrorist acts undertaken against the legitimate owners and administrators of Palestine, by the Irgun and allied terrorist oganisations, in the ten years prior to Israel even being declared. I'll bet your Benny Morris doesn't say too much about these,... And yet. you still have the unmitigated gall to complain about the Palestinians.

Note the number of bombs placed in public market places etc.

1937, March
2 Arabs killed on Bat-Yam beach.
1937, November 14
10 Arabs killed by Irgun units launching attacks around Jerusalem, ("Black Sunday")
1938, April 12
2 Arabs and 2 British policemen were killed by a bomb in a train in Haifa.
1938, April 17
1 Arab was killed by a bomb detonated in a cafe in Haifa
1938, May 17
1 Arab policeman was killed in an attack on a bus in the Jerusalem-Hebron road.
1938, May 24
3 Arabs were shot and killed in Haifa.
1938, June 23
2 Arabs were killed near Tel-Aviv.
1938, June 26
7 Arabs were killed by a bomb in Jaffa.
1938, June 27
1 Arab was killed in the yard of a hospital in Haifa.
1938, June (late)
Unspecified number of Arabs killed by a bomb that was thrown into a crowded Arab market place in Jerusalem.
1938, July 5
7 Arabs were killed in several shooting attacks in Tel-Aviv.
1938, July 5
3 Arabs were killed by a bomb detonated in a bus in Jerusalem.
1938, July 5
1 Arab was killed in another attack in Jerusalem.
1938, July 6
18 Arabs and 5 Jews were killed by two simultaneous bombs in the Arab melon market in Haifa.
1938, July 8
4 Arabs were killed by a bomb in Jerusalem.
1938, July 16
10 Arabs were killed by a bomb at a marketplace in Jerusalem.
1938, July 25
43 Arabs were killed by a bomb at a marketplace in Haifa.
1938, August 26
24 Arabs were killed by a bomb at a marketplace in Jaffa.
1938, February 27
33 Arabs were killed in multiple attacks, incl. 24 by bomb in Arab market in Suk Quarter of Haifa and 4 by bomb in Arab vegetable market in Jerusalem.
1939, May 29
5 Arabs were killed by a mine detonated at the Rex cinema in Jerusalem.
1939, May 29
5 Arabs were shot and killed during a raid on the village of Biyar 'Adas.
1939, June 2
5 Arabs were killed by a bomb at the Jaffa Gate in Jerusalem.
1939, June 12
1 British bomb expert trying to defuse the bombs killed, during a post office in Jerusalem was bombing
1939, June 16
6 Arabs were killed in several attacks in Jerusalem.
1939, June 19
20 Arabs were killed by explosives mounted on a donkey at a marketplace in Haifa.
1939, June 29
13 Arabs were killed in several shooting attacks around Jaffa during a one-hour period.
1939, June 30
1 Arab was killed at a marketplace in Jerusalem.
1939, June 30
2 Arabs were shot and killed in Lifta.
1939, July 3
1 Arab was killed by a bomb at a marketplace in Haifa.
1939, July 4
2 Arabs were killed in two attacks in Jerusalem.
1939, July 20
1 Arab was killed at a train station in Jaffa.
1939, July 20
6 Arabs were killed in several attacks in Tel-Aviv.
1939, July 20
3 Arabs were killed in Rehovot.
1939, August 27
2 British officers were killed by a mine in Jerusalem.
1944, September 27
Unknown number of casualties, around 150 Irgun members attacked four British police stations
1944, September 29
1 Senior British police officer of the Criminal Intelligence Department assassinated in Jerusalem.
1945, November 1
5 locomotives destroyed in Lydda station. Two staff, one soldier and one policeman killed.
1945, December 27
3 British policemen and 4 Basuto soldiers killed during the bombing of British CID headquarters in Jerusalem; 1 British soldier killed during attack of British army camp in north Tel Aviv
1946, February 22
Destroyed 14 aeroplanes at 5 RAF stations.
1946, July 22
91 people were killed at King David Hotel Bombing mostly civilians, staff of the hotel or Secretariat,
41 Palestinian Arabs, 15-28 British citizens, 17 Palestinian Jews, 2 Armenians, 1 Russian, 1 Greek and 1 Egyptian.
1946, October 30
2 British guards killed during Gunfire and explosion at Jerusalem Railway Station.
1946, October 31
Bombing of the British Embassy in Rome. Nearly half the building was destroyed and 3 people were injured.
1947, January 12
4 killed in bombing of British headquarters.
1947, March 1
17 British officers killed, during raid and explosion.
1947, March 12
1 British soldier killed during the attack on Schneller Camp.
1947, July 29
2 kidnapped British sergeants hanged.
1947, September 26
4 British policemen killed in Irgun bank robbery.
1947, September 29
13 killed, 53 wounded in attack on British police station.
1947, December 11
13 killed in attack on Tireh, near Haifa
1947, December 12
20 killed, 5 wounded by barrel bomb at Damascus Gate.
1947, December 13
6 killed, 25 wounded by bombs outside Alhambra Cinema.
1947, December 13
5 killed, 47 wounded by two bombs at Damascus Gate.
1947, December 13
7 killed, 10 seriously injured in attack on Yehudieh.
1947, December 16(ca)
10 killed by bomb at Noga Cinema in Jaffa.
1947, December 20
6 Arabs killed, dozens wounded by bomb at Haifa refinery, precipitating the Haifa Oil Refinery massacre, which lead to the Balad al-Shaykh massacre.
1947, December 29
14 Arabs killed by bomb in Jerusalem.
1948, January 1
2 Arabs killed and 9 injured by shooting attack on cafe in Jaffa.
1948, January 5
14 Arabs killed and 19 injured by truck bomb outside the 3-storey 'Serrani', Jaffa's built Ottoman Town Hall
1948, January 7
20 Arabs killed by bomb at Jaffa Gate.
1948, February 10
7 Arabs killed near Ras el Ain after selling cows in Tel Aviv
1948, February 18
12 Arabs killed and 43 wounded at a marketplace in Ramla
1948, March 1
20 Britons killed and 30 wounded in the Bevingrad Officers Club bombing
1948, April 9-April 11
107-120 Palestinians killed and massacred (the estimate generally accepted by scholars, instead the first announced number of 254) during and after the battle at the village of Deir Yassin near Jerusalem, by 132 Irgun and 60 Lehi fighters.
1948, April 6
7 British soldiers, including Commanding Officer, killed during an arms raid on Pardes Hanna Army camp.
 
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no offence, but that video looks staged. it says a farmer is shot. i watched the whole video. where was he shot?

and of course i know who the stern gang were. i know just as much history about this region as you do, i'm well read on authentic historians like benny morris. terrorism by dissident groups is not okay and i do not justify anything they did.

So if a foreign power came and occupied your land, you would just kind of forget about it and go about your daily life? Got it.
 
It should be noted however that Lehi, unlike Irgun and Haganah, didn't specificly target arabs until 1946-1947, but mainly British officials and personel, plus jews they considered "collaborating" with the British authorities.
 
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