Tiny Tibet feels squeeze from giant neighbors




 
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Tiny Tibet feels squeeze from giant neighbors
 
September 1st, 2005  
SwordFish_13
 
 

Topic: Tiny Tibet feels squeeze from giant neighbors


Tiny Tibet feels squeeze from giant neighbors
Hi,

I found this Interestin Atricle ....... Just wanted to Share .......... About the Forgotten Tibet ......

Quote:
Source:Reuters


LHASA, China (Reuters) - Tibet is one of the most isolated regions in the world, a mass of mountains and plateaus so high they are better suited to yaks than humans.

With its tiny economy and a population of fewer than 3 million, the region may seem insignificant in the foreign affairs of the Chinese government that has ruled it since the People's Liberation Army invaded in 1950.

But as China forges a new relationship with India, home to Tibet's government-in-exile, Tibet is finding its cause for independence squeezed by the growing friendship between its giant ruler and giant southern neighbor.

The Dalai Lama, Tibet's god-king, fled to India on horseback in 1959 after a failed uprising against Chinese rule and set up camp in the northern hill-station of Dharamsala.

But with his shadow government and huge concentration of Tibetan refugees there dependent on the goodwill of the Indian government, analysts say Tibetans will be watching the warming ties between Beijing and Delhi with caution.

"Tibet has been a major source of discomfort for India's relations with China for very many years," said Rahul Roy-Chaudhury, a research fellow at the London-based International Institute for Strategic Studies.

"BROTHERS"

Trade between China and India, the world's two most populous nations, soared to more than $13 billion in 2004 from $100 million a decade ago. This was despite China's close relationship with India's rival Pakistan, to whom it supplies weapons and hundreds of millions of dollars in development financing.

In 2003, the two countries held their first joint naval exercises with a handful of ships off China's eastern seaboard. Last year, India's army chief made a first trip to China in a decade.

On a visit to India in April, Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao called the two countries, who fought a border war in 1962, "brothers" and China formally recognized the remote Himalayan region of Sikkim as part of India.

"This would be very worrying to the Tibetans -- what happens to them in a period of burgeoning India-China relations?" Roy-Chaudhury said.

Tibet's government-in-exile says it is confident of its security in India and that of the approximately 80,000 Tibetan refugees who live there, but spokesman Thubten Samphel acknowledges the Tibetans' dependence on India's benevolence.

"His Holiness the Dalai Lama and the Tibetan refugees' stay in India is granted on a humanitarian basis. Because of the respect His Holiness enjoys from the Indian public, we are not at all worried about our status in India," he said.

Tibetans, he said, could benefit from the improvement in relations between the Asian giants which might help convince the Chinese leadership that resolving the question of Tibet's sovereignty could be in its interest.

The Dalai Lama has said he is seeking greater autonomy for Tibet, not independence. His representatives and Chinese government envoys have held four rounds of dialogue, but analysts say an agreement on Tibet's status is still a long way off.

"We feel that improved relations between India and China will in a way be the basis for a proper solution to the Tibet issue," Thubten Samphel said by telephone from Dharamsala.

UNDER PRESSURE IN NEPAL

But a country's warm ties with China also have the potential to have a less benign impact on Tibetans living there. The impoverished Himalayan kingdom of Nepal is an example.

With Beijing a key aid donor and major trading partner, Nepal does not allow Tibetan refugees to organize any political activities that could jeopardize its ties with China.

This year, Nepal, home to an estimated 15,000 to 20,000 Tibetans, ordered the closure of the Dalai Lama's local offices, saying they had no license to operate. Tibetans there said the action came under pressure from Beijing.

There has since been a crackdown on Tibetan refugees entering Nepal and increased deportation of Tibetans from border areas, Saunders said.

Kathmandu's relationship with Beijing has become all the more crucial since ties with India -- Nepal's biggest trading partner -- have wavered following King Gyanendra's seizure of absolute power in February.

"Nepal uses its strengthening relationship with China to offset its dependence on India. Tibet is of crucial importance in all of that dynamic," said Kate Saunders, of the International Campaign for Tibet.

But Tibet official Bian Ba Ci Ren said the border crossings of Tibetans into Nepal were illegal and "hurt the interests of the region."

"There are certain kinds of forces being instigated by the Dalai Lama and some anti-Chinese forces," he told reporters.

"The people come out but soon they find the outside world is not a paradise so they come back," he said.

While not going as far as Nepal on the Tibetan issue, India too, analysts say, is unlikely to rock the boat with China.

"My sense is that India ... does not want Tibet to become a spoiler in any sense in relations between the two countries," Roy-Chaudhury said.

"Delhi won't necessarily give up on Tibetans, but the signal is clear that the relationship with China is paramount."

Peace
-=SF_13=-
September 2nd, 2005  
Boobies
 
 

Topic: eh...


so, what is DaLai Lama gonna do? Try to stop the relationship building between China and India? I think the God-King is mixing lot of politics and religion in this play. Need seperation of Temple and State here.
September 4th, 2005  
Italian Guy
 
 
Separation of Temple and State happened when Tibet temples were turned into stables, monks murdered and jail and the Dalai Lama chased abroad. Come on. Poor guys.
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Tiny Tibet feels squeeze from giant neighbors
September 5th, 2005  
Boobies
 
 

Topic: hmmm...


Was Tibet democratic before the Red China? For certain, the monks were the most powerful ruling class. Did they ever seperate temple from teh states? When did they do that? Currently, the temple is still the leader of the tibetan refugees? Did they ever establish a government or just a temple-run system?
September 5th, 2005  
Rich
 
Boobies,

I think you've got democratic separation of state and religion a little confused. In a democratic system, the people are free to choose their type of government, make changes to their own constitution, elect their own representatives and decide the laws that will govern their state. Importantly, they are free to follow their own religious beliefs without interference from government.

While you are free, in a democratic system, to voice the reasons why you feel China had every right to murder &/or drive out the traditional leaders of Tibet because of their people's religious beliefs, occupying their country by force since 1951, I am free to say your full of .

See, isn't democracy a wonderful thing.
September 5th, 2005  
Rich
 
Boobies, just a couple of facts about Tibet...

The country has been Bhuddist since c.650AD

In 1642, the Ming Emperor of China recognized Tibet as a sovereign state.

In 1876, the Chinese persuaded the British that they held sovereignty over Tibet, despite the fact that Tibet had been mainly self governed since 127BC. When the British invaded in 1904, China apparently did not protest - in fact,, it did nothing to defend its "new sovereignty" at all. Britain ultimately signed a peace treaty recognizing Tibetan sovereignty.

In 1910, Manchu China invaded Tibet (in what a later Chinese Emperor would apologize for as "an excessive campaign"). When the 1911 revolution broke out, the Chinese were driven from Tibet.

In 1913, Mongolia and Tibet declared themselves free of China.

While there existed a treaty between China and Tibet, by 1949, China had broken every article of that treaty. In 1951, China declared Tibet a province of China after forcefully occupying the country.

In 1989, the Dalai Lama was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize and the Raoul Wallenberg Congressional Human Rights Award for his non-violent approach to solving the Tibetan issue.

The government of China continues to relocate Chinese people into the region in great numbers with a view to dominate, or effectively replace the unique culture of Tibet.

While China has relaxed some of the restrictions on the people of Tibet practicing their religion, severe restrictions are still in place on the construction of temples and the teaching by a monk.

In 1995 the Chinese government kidnapped the six-year-old Gendun Chökyi Nyima and his parents, shortly after he had been recognized by the Dalai Lama as the latest reincarnation of Tibet's second most important spiritual leader, the Panchen Lama. In a resolution of July, 1995, the European Parliament called on China to release the family immediately. This family, like many other groups and individuals who have been detained without trial, remains unaccounted for.

The reasoning about separation of powers, and the inferred responsibility and morality of the Chinese government in occupying Tibet, is just plain garbage when the same government feels justified in orchestrating the disappearance of one of its six year old "citizens". Using words like democracy in justifying the China-Tibet relationship, shows just how little appreciation you have for the words that even I need reminding occasionally are not cliches....

Liberty. Equality. Justice.
September 5th, 2005  
USAFAUX2004
 
 

Topic: Re: eh...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Boobies
so, what is DaLai Lama gonna do? Try to stop the relationship building between China and India? I think the God-King is mixing lot of politics and religion in this play. Need seperation of Temple and State here.
I agree
September 5th, 2005  
Italian Guy
 
 

Topic: Re: hmmm...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Boobies
Was Tibet democratic before the Red China? For certain, the monks were the most powerful ruling class. Did they ever seperate temple from teh states? When did they do that? Currently, the temple is still the leader of the tibetan refugees? Did they ever establish a government or just a temple-run system?
Is Tibet now democratic under Red China? For certain, the Communist leaders are the most powerful class. Are they allowed to profess their religion? Can they freely write what they think on freely published newspapers that are freely sold all over the country? What happens to them if they do? Can they collect information about what happens to them and send those information abroad? Do they enjoy a fair trial when they get arrested? How many of them have been jailed and slaughtered for just having done nothing?
September 5th, 2005  
Boobies
 
 

Topic: Good points..


Good points Rich and Italianguy, I can see where you come from. Wasn't Tibet ruled under Ching dynasty (Autonomous)? Ming declared Tibet to be Autonomous state not a free nation.

When the British invaded Tibet, China was in the ruin of British Opium. So, Tibet was a free nation declared by the British because of China's lack of military power to fight against the modernized British? So, when did other nation has the power to decare freedom of a region from its mother land?

You mentioned treaty between China and Tibet. Well, who drafted the treaty. I am pretty sure British had a heavy hand on that, no? Didn't British single handily got rid of Tibet from Ching's map. Did China ever invited the British to meddle its political system? Are you saying because of China's weakness, it was ok for the British to cut up China as they pleased (politically, socially, financially, and militarily)? Tibet's political alliance with Ching (China) should be taken care of between the Tibetans and Chinese, not by invasion of others.





Quote:
While you are free, in a democratic system, to voice the reasons why you feel China had every right to murder &/or drive out the traditional leaders of Tibet because of their people's religious beliefs, occupying their country by force since 1951, I am free to say your full of .
I think your personal attack is uncall for. When did I say my support for the killing of Tibetans? Are you implying my support of killing Blacks, suppression of minorities, unjust treatment of others because my support for the US?

Italianguy:
Are they allowed to profess their religion?

Yes, there are plenty of Catholic, Christian Churches and Buddhist temples in China. You are right that Chinese government does not allow full fledge of religion freedom, for one reason, unlike westerners, Chinese people are not well-known in self-determinations, self-dictate and self-rule. Many Chinese are easily fooled by religion and religion-liked: superstition. For certain, Chinese people don't need more cults because of the foolish of ignorants. China needs to progress not dwell on thousand year old old tradition, religion, distorted superstitions and ultra egos that restrict any pragmatic progressions.

Many of you are right about the information control by the government. I, personally, dislike such action. Fair-trials, well, China does not have a very fair trial system for "political prisoner" for her extreme cautions of terrorists, religion extremists, and separatists that can rattle its economic reforms and slow-paced political changes. I, personally do question the trial system for "political prisoners" and human rights. I sincerely wish China will change the human-rights issues.

When i mention Tibetan system, I am just questioning their political system outside of China. Do the exile-Tibetans implement a temple (religion)-ran system or just using religion as a leverage to gain advantageous both socially and politically?

How little appreciation for the word of democracy? Well, personally, I was not born into one. I am sure I am just as qualify to use it and live it as you.
September 5th, 2005  
WARmachine88
 

Topic: Re: hmmm...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Italian Guy
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boobies
Was Tibet democratic before the Red China? For certain, the monks were the most powerful ruling class. Did they ever seperate temple from teh states? When did they do that? Currently, the temple is still the leader of the tibetan refugees? Did they ever establish a government or just a temple-run system?
Is Tibet now democratic under Red China? For certain, the Communist leaders are the most powerful class. Are they allowed to profess their religion? Can they freely write what they think on freely published newspapers that are freely sold all over the country? What happens to them if they do? Can they collect information about what happens to them and send those information abroad? Do they enjoy a fair trial when they get arrested? How many of them have been jailed and slaughtered for just having done nothing?
My family went to a Buddhist temple every month in China, and a friend of ours is goes to church more than once a week in a registered church (along with milions of other chinese who goes to state church that does not take orders from Rome, sort of like England's church).

If you happen to read Time magazine, I think not long ago they have had a special report on today's China. I hope you can find it online and read it. The report points out that China is in transformation and people are getting more and more rights and freedom (like said in Time, if you go on the street and yell "Hu Jintao is a dumbass", you won't get touched for anything").

There are many people like you in the western world that blindly believes in human rights and democracy although in every nation, a person's rights and freedom are limited in some degree (I dont wanna go to school and I have no problem to survive, but the government will put my parents in jail if I don't).