Time to get out of Iraq

Wait and see what history comes up with in the long run, and the person that wrote that article is taking a very simplistic view of the problems. She seems to think that if you quit before the job has been finished then thats okay, but what she does not realise that problem could then follow you home again
 
LeEnfield said:
Wait and see what history comes up with in the long run, and the person that wrote that article is taking a very simplistic view of the problems. She seems to think that if you quit before the job has been finished then thats okay, but what she does not realise that problem could then follow you home again
Click to expand...

That is a nail on the head comment.

We are not currently fighting the Iraqi's, we are fighting what they call insurgents. Those insurgents are not from Iraq, but from Iran, Jordan, Syria, and a few other selected countries that want to kill Americans and stop the spread of democracy.

There is more behind the situation than most will want to see. But you are right about one thing, if we don't take care of the situation we have now it will follow us home. At the moment Al Queda is tied up attempting to sway public opinion of the President and the American resolve. If we were to pull out of the region and bring our guys home we will still have a connected rate of death but it will again be innocent women, men and children inside our own shores.

We all have a warm fuzzy feeling that we will not be attacked again but that feeling is not based on anything substantiative. Prior to my demobilization in 2002 I was made aware of the desires of Al Queda to attack the U.S. and cause not thousands of deaths, but up to a million Americans in one single attack. This was reported in the media but the story quickly died and the warm fuzzy feeling returned.

We are not safe and must be diligent to remove any source of the terrorist groups that we can while we can. It is my opinion that if we were to get the wrong person in the WH in the next election that we might be more vunerable than we were in the days prior to 9/11.
 
Thats precisely the arguement the Hawks used in their opposition in exiting Vietnam. That the US abandoning Vietnam would lead to a domino effect that would result in the entire Asian continent falling into the Communist hands. That scenario never happened. The truth is nobody can tell what will happen for sure what would happen.

One thing is for sure the current strategy isn't working.

I personally believe Al Qaeda will find no sanctury in Iraq. The country is mostly made up of Shiites who hate al Qaeda which is Sunni. Does anyone really think the Shiites will forgive and forget all the terror attacks that al-Qaeda sponsored? The Sunni and Shiite have been hating and killing each other for centuries. They hate each other more than they hate the us.

When the US leaves (and I think its only a matter of time) the Sunnis and Shiites will immediatly start killing each other. And the foreign Sunni insurgents will be the first Shiite targets.

There will NEVER be democracy in Iraq, for the simple reason that they dont want it.
 
Last edited:
mmarsh said:
Thats precisely the arguement the Hawks used in their opposition in exiting Vietnam. That the US abandoning Vietnam would lead to a domino effect that would result in the entire Asian continent falling into the Communist hands. That scenario never happened. The truth is nobody can tell what will happen for sure what would happen.

One thing is for sure the current strategy isn't working.

I personally believe Al Qaeda will find no sanctury in Iraq. The country is most made up of Shiites who hate al Qaeda which is Sunni. Does anyone really think the Shiites will forgive and forget all the terror attacks that al-Qaeda sponsored? The Sunni and Shiite have been hating and killing each other for centuries. They hate each other more than they hate the us.

When the US leaves (and I think its only a matter of time) the Sunnis and Shiites will immediatly start killing each other. And the foreign Sunni insurgents will be the first Shiite targets.

There will NEVER be democracy in Iraq, for the simple reason that they dont want it.
Click to expand...

The war in Vietnam cannot be compared to the war in Iraq. Totally different reasons for being there. Your comparison is absurd.

Vietnam harbored no Terrorists that had attacked. Vietnam did not piss in the flathat of the UN during the years following Desert Storm. Saddam broke resolution after resolution in those years and used WMD's against the Iranians and his own people.

Try comparing apples to apples and leave the oranges to themselves for this discussion.

If you don't think that the war in Iraq has any impact on the GWOT you have gravely mistaken.
 
Senior Chief

Oh but there is a comparison, in both situations we (the American people) were conned into going there and that in reality we had no business being there and that we shouldn't have gotten involved.

If you honestly think we are going to win this one, you should read what happened to the British in Iraq, or the British in Afganistan, or the French in Algeria.

I DO think Iraq has made an HUGE impact on the war on terror and this most experts will agree with me:

Iraq had made the GWOT much, much, worse.
 
The Cooler King said:
Well if France hadn't "interfered with our domestic affairs" we wouldn't even be a nation.
Click to expand...

France was already at war with Britan, AND that British occupation of the USA did pose a serious security threat to French territories in the Lousiana Purchase. The French intervened in the Americas not just because they were sympathetic but because it suited their nations interests.
 
mmarsh said:
France was already at war with Britan, AND that British occupation of the USA did pose a serious security threat to French territories in the Lousiana Purchase. The French intervened in the Americas not just because they were sympathetic but because it suited their nations interests.
Click to expand...

Ok then, we were already at war with Communism so that justifies Vietnam.
 
The Cooler King said:
Well if France hadn't "interfered with our domestic affairs" we wouldn't even be a nation.
Click to expand...

Also, if the UN wasn't formed for that exact purpose, then why are they still in business. If they don't interfere in some African Nations, without a direct threat to the US, then genocide will be the modus operandi of the stronger.
As far as I know, North Korea is not able to annhialate the United States but they are a threat to our allies, Japan, South Korea, and Taiwan. We have to look beyond the end of our noses to detect where preemptive strikes are needed.
 
mmarsh said:
Senior Chief

Oh but there is a comparison, in both situations we (the American people) were conned into going there and that in reality we had no business being there and that we shouldn't have gotten involved.

If you honestly think we are going to win this one, you should read what happened to the British in Iraq, or the British in Afganistan, or the French in Algeria.

I DO think Iraq has made an HUGE impact on the war on terror and this most experts will agree with me:

Iraq had made the GWOT much, much, worse.
Click to expand...

Now there is no doubt about it, deleted by admin! (Not right, he has proven what he is!!!!!!)
There is no comparison between the political reasons for the two wars. Your hated of America and the President is evident in all you post.
 
Last edited:
The Cooler King said:
Ok then, we were already at war with Communism so that justifies Vietnam.
Click to expand...

Thats a bit of a strech, I dont think you can declare a actual shooting war on a political ideology.

You might disagree, but I believe in self-determination. If a country such as Vietnam wants a communist style government, its unfortunate (for them), but its not our business to interfere as long as that doesnt threaten our security, and I mean a real threat, not a percieved or theoretical one.

Back to the subject.

I am for getting out of Iraq. Forget for the moment about the lies and deception that got us there, or the general incompetance and corruption that followed. This is all in the past, I wish to talk about the present.

At this point, I don't see anyway forward in Iraq. When I say forward, I mean moving in the direction of a conclusion to this situation. We are presently in a quigmire one that HAS spun into a civil war. In laymans terms, we are stuck in between two warring sides, and both suspect us of collaboration with the other. So we are trusted by neither.

The Sunnis and Shiites will continue to kill each other while blaming the US for the mess. The plan for letting Iraq forces gradually replace US forces has also been a failure. The truth remains that vast majority of Iraqi Forces simply cannot function with US support. The only way that I see to pacify the country is to put massive reinforcements into Iraq (somewhere between 300-500 thousand as General Shinski initially suggested). That is something that Washington will never do.

The plan for a Iraqi Democracy is also a farce. Nobody wants it. "IRAQ" was something imposed in the 1930's by the British. The arabs who lived there never really aspired to it. In reality the Kurds wish a independant Kurdistan, the Shiites wish to be under the umbrella of Iran, and the Sunnis want a Sunni dictator like Saddam back in power. None of them want democracy.

The only plan offered by the POTUS is 'stay the course' thats been a disaster even most republicans privately admit is not much of a plan.

And for all this what have we gained? Absolutly nothing. This war has cost lives, money, and our image. And we are hemorraging all three at a incredible rate. So we cannot move forward, we cannot stay where we are, what choice do we have but to step backwards? Cut our loses and leave. I agree its unpleasant. But part of being a good leader is making unpopular (but correct) decisions.

If anyone's got another idea (other than stay the course) I'm all ears.
 
Last edited:
The Cooler King said:
Isn't that why we declared war on North Korea and North Vietnam?
Click to expand...

No, in Korea we defended the south from a Northern invasion (2 seperate countries). In Vietnam it was a civil war between Democracy and Communism. Like I said, I believe in self-determiniation, and that we shouldnt get involved in other countries internal affairs, including their choice of government.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top