Those friendly Iranians

phoenix80

Banned
Those friendly Iranians

By NICHOLAS D. KRISTOF in Tehran
Published: May 5, 2004
The New York Times

Finally, I've found a pro-American country.

Everywhere I've gone in Iran, with one exception, people have been exceptionally friendly and fulsome in their praise for the United States, and often for President Bush as well. Even when I was detained a couple of days ago in the city of Isfahan for asking a group of young people whether they thought the Islamic revolution had been a mistake (they did), the police were courteous and let me go after an apology.

They apologized; I didn't.

On my first day in Tehran, I dropped by the "Den of Spies," as the old U.S. Embassy is now called. It's covered with ferocious murals denouncing America as the "Great Satan" and the "archvillain of nations" and showing the Statue of Liberty as a skull (tour the "Den of Spies" here).

Then I stopped to chat with one of the Revolutionary Guards now based in the complex. He was a young man who quickly confessed that his favorite movie is " Titanic." "If I could manage it, I'd go to America tomorrow," he said wistfully.

He paused and added, "To hell with the mullahs."

In the 1960's and 1970's, the U.S. spent millions backing a pro-Western modernizing shah ˜ and the result was an outpouring of venom that led to our diplomats' being held hostage. Since then, Iran has been ruled by mullahs who despise everything we stand for ˜ and now people stop me in the bazaar to offer paeans to America as well as George Bush.

Partly because being pro-American is a way to take a swipe at the Iranian regime, anything American, from blue jeans to "Baywatch," is revered. At the bookshops, Hillary Clinton gazes out from three different pirated editions of her autobiography.

`It's a best seller, though it's not selling as well as Harry Potter," said Heidar Danesh, a bookseller in Tehran. "The other best-selling authors are John Grisham, Sidney Sheldon, Danielle Steel."

Young Iranians keep popping the question, "So how can I get to the U.S.?"

I ask why they want to go to a nation denounced for its "disgustingly sick promiscuous behavior," but that turns out to be a main attraction. And many people don't believe a word of the Iranian propaganda.

" We've learned to interpret just the opposite of things on TV because it's all lies," said Odan Seyyid Ashrafi, a 20-year-old university student. "So if it says America is awful, maybe that means it's a great place to live."

Indeed, many Iranians seem convinced that the U.S. military ventures in Afghanistan and Iraq are going great, and they say this with more conviction than your average White House spokesman.

One opinion poll showed that 74 percent of Iranians want a dialogue with the U.S. ˜ and the finding so irritated the authorities that they arrested the pollster. Iran is also the only Muslim country I know where citizens responded to the 9/11 attacks with a spontaneous candlelight vigil as a show of sympathy.

Iran-U.S. relations are now headed for a crisis over Tehran's nuclear program, which appears to be so advanced that Iran could produce its first bomb by the end of next year. The Bush administration is right to address this issue, but it needs to step very carefully to keep from inflaming Iranian nationalism and uniting the population behind the regime. We need to lay out the evidence on satellite television programs that are broadcast into Iran, emphasizing that the regime is squandering money on a nuclear weapons program that will further isolate Iranians and damage their economy.

Left to its own devices, the Islamic revolution is headed for collapse, and there is a better chance of a strongly pro-American democratic government in Tehran in a decade than in Baghdad. The ayatollahs' best hope is that hard-liners in Washington will continue their inept diplomacy, creating a wave of Iranian nationalism that bolsters the regime ˜ as happened to a lesser degree after President Bush put Iran in the axis of evil.

Oh, that one instance when I was treated inhospitably? That was in a teahouse near the Isfahan bazaar, where I was interviewing religious conservatives. They were warm and friendly, but a group of people two tables away went out of their way to be rude, yelling at me for being an American propagandist. So I finally encountered hostility in Iran ˜ from a table full of young Europeans.

http://www.iranian.com/RoozbehShirazi/2004/May/NYT/index2.html
 
Imagine that.
Those same young Europeans probably take for granted their rights and freedoms that were paid for in blood by our forefathers in the early part of the 20th century.

One day, if there is any justice in the cosmos for people like them, they will get a lesson, and it will shock them into realizing the price that was paid for them to be able to sit there and make comments and statements like that.
 
chewie_nz said:
people are ignorant of sacrifices made where ever you go mate....

exactly!

Most europeans forget that they were under the rule of Nazis and Fascists for a decade when the US came to the rescue.
 
phoenix_aim54 said:
chewie_nz said:
people are ignorant of sacrifices made where ever you go mate....

exactly!

Most europeans forget that they were under the rule of Nazis and Fascists for a decade when the US came to the rescue.


*cough* before the ALLIES went on the offensive. the US got involved late 1941. Europe (and the commonwealth) had been at war since 1939, asia for even longer....they paid in blood too.

and without England holding out agains the Nazi's there would not have been a liberation untill much later...if ever
 
This kinda of a pointless argument

If you look far enough back, if it werent for the French there would be a United States of America. Or if the UK and France had decided to support the South there migh be two Americas instead of just one.

How far back in History are we going to go in order to justify the present? WWII was over 60 years ago. I doubt most of you were even born back then...
 
Right.

That is why I left it deliberately vague so that no one person or country felt left out lol. Guess that didn't work as I intended it to work.
 
mmarsh said:
This kinda of a pointless argument

If you look far enough back, if it werent for the French there would be a United States of America. Or if the UK and France had decided to support the South there migh be two Americas instead of just one.

How far back in History are we going to go in order to justify the present? WWII was over 60 years ago. I doubt most of you were even born back then...

yada yada yada

We arent talking about French-US relation here. we re talking about WW II and how US came to rescue of the whole europeans and that is a known fact. Neither french nor british can deny that. Can you?
 
yada yada yada

We arent talking about French-US relation here. we re talking about WW II and how US came to rescue of the whole europeans and that is a known fact. Neither french nor british can deny that. Can you?


France is part of Europe right? So it is valid. Of course the US came to France and the UKs aid, just like France came to USAs aid when it needed it.

The point is why keep dredging up old history, its not like any of us were around at this time anyway. Besides all this is OT I would suggest we get back to Iran before the Admin starts deleting posts.
 
eh...

Politics or no politics, people from any poor areas of developing countries and third world nation will love to go to any well-developed land. Just follow the money.

I, myself, admit that the possiblities of financial independence was the sole motivator for coming to the States. It just happen that over the years political and social issues became interesting as well as the getting rich part.

Yes, I am still poor.
 
I saw this show on Iran about a year or saw ago, most people in there where secretly saying that they do not like the Iranian government and that they wish the US would do the same thing as they did with Afganistan over there.

And yes its funny, and sad, how alot of Europeans believe in their own flawed liberal thinking, when the common people of Iran believe otherwise.

Unfortunately, the new Iranian President is an Islamic hardliner. It was a major setback for the moderate Iranians. His main agenda is to develop Iran as a modern and advanced Islamic power.

Marinerhodes said:
Imagine that.
Those same young Europeans probably take for granted their rights and freedoms that were paid for in blood by our forefathers in the early part of the 20th century.

One day, if there is any justice in the cosmos for people like them, they will get a lesson, and it will shock them into realizing the price that was paid for them to be able to sit there and make comments and statements like that.

I actually think that day is coming. Give it about 20 years or so.

Europe will be invaded by a united Islamic Empire. The deathtoll for this war will surpass even WWII.
 
gladius said:
I actually think that day is coming. Give it about 20 years or so.

Europe will be invaded by a united Islamic Empire. The deathtoll for this war will surpass even WWII.


I certainly hope not. I am in the military.

I heard it somewhere said that "the one thing a soldier prays most for is peace."
 
I certainly hope not either. But I'm not going with what I hope, I'm going with what I think will happen (going by the odds, so to speak).

Iraq is our last best chance to stop the ball rolling towards that finality, by introducing democracy and openess in the Middle East. But most of the Europeans themselves don't seem to be cooperating, so this future war will be partially of their own making. Like you where sort of saying, people will get the lesson they deserve.
 
gladius said:
I certainly hope not either. But I'm not going with what I hope, I'm going with what I think will happen (going by the odds, so to speak).

Iraq is our last best chance to stop the ball rolling towards that finality, by introducing democracy and openess in the Middle East. But most of the Europeans themselves don't seem to be cooperating, so this future war will be partially of their own making. Like you where sort of saying, people will get the lesson they deserve.

that is what Bush believes in and I agree with it in principle, let's just hope Bush does not mess up Iraq further more.
 
gladius said:
I saw this show on Iran about a year or saw ago, most people in there where secretly saying that they do not like the Iranian government and that they wish the US would do the same thing as they did with Afganistan over there.

And yes its funny, and sad, how alot of Europeans believe in their own flawed liberal thinking, when the common people of Iran believe otherwise.

Unfortunately, the new Iranian President is an Islamic hardliner. It was a major setback for the moderate Iranians. His main agenda is to develop Iran as a modern and advanced Islamic power.

Marinerhodes said:
Imagine that.
Those same young Europeans probably take for granted their rights and freedoms that were paid for in blood by our forefathers in the early part of the 20th century.

One day, if there is any justice in the cosmos for people like them, they will get a lesson, and it will shock them into realizing the price that was paid for them to be able to sit there and make comments and statements like that.

I actually think that day is coming. Give it about 20 years or so.

Europe will be invaded by a united Islamic Empire. The deathtoll for this war will surpass even WWII.

Right on the spot.

Agreed!
 
WARmachine88 said:
gladius said:
I certainly hope not either. But I'm not going with what I hope, I'm going with what I think will happen (going by the odds, so to speak).

Iraq is our last best chance to stop the ball rolling towards that finality, by introducing democracy and openess in the Middle East. But most of the Europeans themselves don't seem to be cooperating, so this future war will be partially of their own making. Like you where sort of saying, people will get the lesson they deserve.

that is what Bush believes in and I agree with it in principle, let's just hope Bush does not mess up Iraq further more.

excuse me... It is not Bush doing the mess in Iraq.

It is Syrian-Saudi-Iranian backed insurgency making it worse for coalition forces and innocent people of Iraq to go further.
 
phoenix_aim54 said:
WARmachine88 said:
gladius said:
I certainly hope not either. But I'm not going with what I hope, I'm going with what I think will happen (going by the odds, so to speak).

Iraq is our last best chance to stop the ball rolling towards that finality, by introducing democracy and openess in the Middle East. But most of the Europeans themselves don't seem to be cooperating, so this future war will be partially of their own making. Like you where sort of saying, people will get the lesson they deserve.

that is what Bush believes in and I agree with it in principle, let's just hope Bush does not mess up Iraq further more.

excuse me... It is not Bush doing the mess in Iraq.

It is Syrian-Saudi-Iranian backed insurgency making it worse for coalition forces and innocent people of Iraq to go further.

so who went in there first without solid intelligence....

or who tries to force everybody accept a constitution that will certainly result a civil war in the future??
 
WARmachine88 said:
so who went in there first without solid intelligence....

or who tries to force everybody accept a constitution that will certainly result a civil war in the future??

Who was using nerve gas on the Kurds, who was running rape rooms, who was filling mass graves with men, women, and children, who was working with unscrupulous European Countries with the UN compliance to sell oil and send the money to terrorists in Gaza and Lebanon and build palaces while Iraqis starved, Who invaded Kuwait and then kicked the UN inspectors out with no explanation, who broke every UN resolution? Who? Why it was that dashing darling of the ne`er do wells of the "leave things as they are" crowd.
 
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