Who is terrorist and who isn't?

viper2007 said:
Islam does NOT promote terrorism. Neither does it propagate it. I would say that no religion does, for that matter...

I will confine my views from the Islamic perspective, and this is something that I've mentioned before somewhere in this forum.

Islam is a religion that promote peace. It also promote understanding and compassion for fellow men. That is what I was brought up to believe. I was also taught that, as a Muslim, it is my duty to protect, not only my family, but also my neighbours. It does not say that my neighbours has to be Muslims.

But what do we get nowadays... Some idiot running around gunning people, destroying properties, killing and maiming inoocents, all in the name of Islam. My question is this- are they really Muslims?

The sad part is that the rest of the Muslim chooses to remain silent, and remain silent, for reasons only known to themselves. This unfortunate silence gave legitimacy to these idiots doing these indespicable acts, and the world, in particular, the West, has the notion that Islam is such a evil religion.

You take Afghanistan, for example. Who are Talibans really hurting? The Americans? the British, perhaps? No!, they are killing and hurting their own people. The Taliban are very much against the female folks getting education- why? If anyone here can explain that to me or anyone here, then that person is smarter than me... Islam promotes knowledge and information to all, and that includes females, too... And the Taliban is practising the true tenets of Islam? I can tell you now, it is pure b******t... The things that is so-called Islamic teaching is no more than tribal and cultural practises.

Most of the time, the issues that you see in the world, is caused by vested interest of that group, be it groups or clan or race. It has nothing to do with religion. Religion is something that they use to legitimise their action.
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Yeah, I didn't say Islam promotes terrorism, I kinda said what u said but mine was a little summed up. I'm from a Muslim country myself. And that's what's quite unfortunate! People manipulate what religion says in order to suit their own ideologies then they end up fighting under the name of that religion which results in that specific religion getting stereotyped for terrorism. I know that murder is one of the very worst sins a Muslim can commit, and as I said I doubt any Abrahamic religion will promote murder in any way besides self-defense.
The Talibans are disgusting. Although, I'm a little far away in knowledge about Afghanistan but man, they kept throwing a woman with stones until she died and I've seen them executing another woman in a freaking stadium or something. I'm sure a 100% Islam doesn't say this and if there's any other religion that says this, I'd doubt a sane man to follow that religion.

When it comes about the West thinking of Islam in a bad way, in my opinion it's the media to be blamed. When a terrorist does something the media comes up and says "the 37 years-old Muslim did....." Or "Mohamed, a 26 years old Muslim man has...." I believe it's the media that's the reason for this stereotype and ignorant folks listening and believing right away plus spreading the word, too. It's kinda stupid cuz one day I was at school while wearing the Middle Eastern Keffiyeh and some douche came up to me and started saying "Allah Akbar" in an honestly ridiculous way. In my country, we have this commercial that says "Terrorism, has no religion". I think this very sentence sums up the issue pretty well.
 
The media is surely to blame for the way the rest of the world is seen. It's all about bad things. In the past several years, USAID alone has built more than 680 schools, more than 670 clinics, and reconstructed more than 3,000 km of roads in Afganistan (and that is only USAID, there are more organisations helping Afghanistan). You don't read that in the news but when the Taliban destroys one school it gets headlines.

But one must also admit that the Koran itself is responsible because it can be interpreted differently (good and bad) and some articles are even contradictory.

2:62 Lo! Those who believe (in that which is revealed unto thee, Muhammad), and those who are Jews, and Christians, and Sabaeans - whoever believeth in Allah and the Last Day and doeth right - surely their reward is with their Lord, and there shall no fear come upon them neither shall they grieve.

3:85 And whoso seeketh as religion other than the Surrender (to Allah) it will not be accepted from him, and he will be a loser in the Hereafter.
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In my point of view, religion should only be teached to adults. Let the people first learn to think for themselves before they get the rules of a religion.

LeEnfield said:
Rather like the Zionist during WW2 who spent there time killing British troops in Palestine while their people were dying in gas chambers
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That is mean. First you (British) promised the Jews a homeland (nowadays Jordan, Palestinian territories and Israel). When they started immigrating you began to limit their number, even sending ships back although you knew they were refugees fleeing the Nazi terror. Thousands of Palestinian jews fought with your army in WWII. European born Jews fought for the British in the Balkans. All Jewish organizations, including the Zionists in Europe also played a major role in the Jewish resistance to the Germans, automatically allied with the Allied Forces, including the British en then you are pretending that they were only interested in fighting the British in Palestine????
 
ScarabVenom said:
In my country, we have this commercial that says "Terrorism, has no religion". I think this very sentence sums up the issue pretty well.
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I think that sums it up VERY well. I have heard so many people talk about how Islam is this and Islam is that, but they fail to pay any attention to the other religions. I'm a Christian, and you would never catch me doing the stuff many self-professed Christians have done. Like hurting or killing people because of race or color.

Ok, ok. I can understand wanting to use democrats for target practice. :whip: That's a regional cultural thing really. :rockin:
But not over something stupid like race color or creed. Or religion. I have said this for as long as I can remember, since BEFORE I served in the early 90s- Fredom of Religion ain't just for Christians, and it ain't just for Americans. So idiots think I'm saying it's ok to be a Hari Krhishna in Boogiewoogieville BFE. AFAIC if it's legal in that place, fine. But I'm talking about in America. In America, if you're from Boogiewoogieville BFE and you wanna be a tithe paying member of the Flying Spaghetti Monster Church, have at it.

And I have not a problem in busting caps or knees on those that unlawfully interfere with the lawful pursuit of religion. I gave my oath to protect and preserve the US Constitution and I sure don't recall seeing an expiration date on that oath.

As for the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, Gimme the spaghetti and lots of parmesian cheese. And Dr. Pepper. And I'm happy. :dive:
 
Hi Scarab & The Rest,

That comment was not directed to you, is was a general comment. I apologise if I gave you that impression. I think we are on the same plarform with regards to this matter. This is something I have been voicing for the last years to anyone willing to listen.

As for the enforcement of the laws of Sharia, the Taliban is doing it based on their beliefs, somewhat wayward, and on cultural and tribal beliefs. Yes, the Sharia laws do look draconian when one looks at it on the surface. But has one considered that those laws are actually meant as a deterent rather than enforcement. The concept is this- if you are prepared to do the crime, then you must be prepared to face the consequences. Ther is a lot more to it. You need witnesses- 4 people of good standing, not related to the accused nor accuser, people of good standing- in other words, someone of the cloth. Only then can you proceed with trying this accused person....

As for the media... well... we know what this people are all about. Is all about the number of readership for that particular news agency, so responsible reporting will almost always take a backseat- like the saying goes, when money speaks truth keeps silent.

When I was working for an Israeli company in Singapore some years back, we had an Israeli engineer that was close to me. I brought him out more than one occasion for sampling the local quisine. During one of the outing, this is what he told me...

"If I go back to Israel, and tell my my friends that I am sitting in one tabke having a meal with a Muslim, they will laugh and think that I am telling them a joke". I asked him why he said that. This was his reply- "We do not know why, but we were tauhgt from young that the Palestinians/ Arabs were the enemy, just as they were taught that the Jews were the enemy, so we must be at each other throats. Why can't we do the same as your country does, people of different races living together peacefully" Well, sometimes alcohol do have its positive side!

As long as you want to think of the past, and wishes to retain that attitude, then changes will not take place easily. As for the Arabs and the Jews fighting over the space in the Middle East, to me is like two fleas arguing over who owns the dog! I say live and let live. Nobody is above making mistakes- as the Middle East, everyone had some faults over this- Jews, Arabs, Palestinians, Syrians, you name them. All have a claim. You kill each other and you teach your younger generation to hate one another, and what you get in the end- nothing but pain and suffering. Is that what we want? You keep doing this, and I can tell you one day, the Chinese will move in and tell you that they own the lands...

What the hell, I am getting all philosophical about this... sorry!
 
Metin said:
... I understand why western leaders do that, it is easy to rule the ignorant. But if you lose control over them someone'll make'em believe what he says and convince them to attack you.
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There is a misunderstanding between civilizations. Not every muslim is terrorist.
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Something is terribly wrong... I saw some people just swearing at muslims. This isn't true man.

I say this as a human being (homo sapiens :)) and a deist.
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I like your words very much, Sir... I believe the Turkish People shall be an example to follow for other Muslim Nations
 
Actually terrorism is quite effective

Where did all that vast, vast sum that Sadam Husein spent on tanks and other military paraphernalia get him? To a gallows where is neck was really stretched. But some hair peroxide boiled up and some flour can terrify a nation.
 
viper2007 said:
Hi Scarab & The Rest,


When I was working for an Israeli company in Singapore some years back, we had an Israeli engineer that was close to me. I brought him out more than one occasion for sampling the local quisine. During one of the outing, this is what he told me...

"If I go back to Israel, and tell my my friends that I am sitting in one tabke having a meal with a Muslim, they will laugh and think that I am telling them a joke". I asked him why he said that. This was his reply- "We do not know why, but we were tauhgt from young that the Palestinians/ Arabs were the enemy, just as they were taught that the Jews were the enemy, so we must be at each other throats. Why can't we do the same as your country does, people of different races living together peacefully" Well, sometimes alcohol do have its positive side!

As long as you want to think of the past, and wishes to retain that attitude, then changes will not take place easily. As for the Arabs and the Jews fighting over the space in the Middle East, to me is like two fleas arguing over who owns the dog! I say live and let live. Nobody is above making mistakes- as the Middle East, everyone had some faults over this- Jews, Arabs, Palestinians, Syrians, you name them. All have a claim. You kill each other and you teach your younger generation to hate one another, and what you get in the end- nothing but pain and suffering. Is that what we want? You keep doing this, and I can tell you one day, the Chinese will move in and tell you that they own the lands...

What the hell, I am getting all philosophical about this... sorry!
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Dude, u're absolutely right! The freaking Arab media doesn't stop repeating "Hate Israel...Hate Israel....Israel is the enemy...remember 1967....remember 1948...remember, remember, remember." since I had no idea about Israeli media, but according to what u say...they teach them the same thing. I honestly believe the media is the reason for all problems. The media is what stereotyped the African-American for being...., u know what I'm saying. The media is what stereotyped Muslims for being terrorists. The media is what stereotyped Arabs for being those barbaric savages. And as I said above, the media is the one that keeps putting fuel on fire between the Israelis and the Arabs. And for your last paragraph, I honestly give you my most respectful salutes.
 
-- Dusty said:
I think that sums it up VERY well. I have heard so many people talk about how Islam is this and Islam is that, but they fail to pay any attention to the other religions. I'm a Christian, and you would never catch me doing the stuff many self-professed Christians have done. Like hurting or killing people because of race or color.

Ok, ok. I can understand wanting to use democrats for target practice. :whip: That's a regional cultural thing really. :rockin:
But not over something stupid like race color or creed. Or religion. I have said this for as long as I can remember, since BEFORE I served in the early 90s- Fredom of Religion ain't just for Christians, and it ain't just for Americans. So idiots think I'm saying it's ok to be a Hari Krhishna in Boogiewoogieville BFE. AFAIC if it's legal in that place, fine. But I'm talking about in America. In America, if you're from Boogiewoogieville BFE and you wanna be a tithe paying member of the Flying Spaghetti Monster Church, have at it.

And I have not a problem in busting caps or knees on those that unlawfully interfere with the lawful pursuit of religion. I gave my oath to protect and preserve the US Constitution and I sure don't recall seeing an expiration date on that oath.

As for the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, Gimme the spaghetti and lots of parmesian cheese. And Dr. Pepper. And I'm happy. :dive:
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Exactly, and what makes it better is that this commercial comes up on TV ALOT in an Arabic country while foreign media neglects this and says that Arabs support terrorism. Although, I'm not a Muslim but I do believe if 1 Abrahamic religion supports terrorism all 3 Abrahamic religions should support terrorism since I think -I'm not sure- that all 3 Abrahmic religions call for worshiping the same god. (Yahweh, God and Allah) only some minor differences about that god in which Chrisitians I believe, believe that God is divided into 3 parts or something similar being the Holy Spirit, Jesus Christ and the father. The whole terrorism issue is a matter of ideology and how you understand a specific thing. For example if a religion says "kill your enemy." that can be multiple things. Your enemy can be someone who attacks you and thus, religion can mean kill your enemy as in self-defence. Others believe "the enemy" is someone who doesn't believe in your same religion. Enemy can be multiple things, it just depends on how a specific person looks at it and unfortunately, according to whatever that person might think.....he claims his religion saying this and thus, stereotyping his own religion for his stupid idea. Speaking of Democrats, I honestly don't understand politics and I don't know about the whole Democrat-Republican thingy. LOL at "expiration date for the oath."
 
Anders Breivik was sentenced today to 21 years imprisonment for killing 77 people several months ago. Four months for each one. Yes I know it is the maximum penalty for a convict in Norway. They are very cultivated.
 
hamidreza said:
Anders Breivik was sentenced today to 21 years imprisonment for killing 77 people several months ago. Four months for each one. Yes I know it is the maximum penalty for a convict in Norway. They are very cultivated.
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And your point would be...?
 
rattler said:
...or (christian) catholic children are getting bombed/hand grenaded by (christian) protestants on their way to school (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Cross_dispute) or vice versa?

Every religion has its terrorist followers.

Rattler
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I've served in Northern Ireland, the Province has been that way for centuries. The media says it's quiet since the ceasefire - don't believe it for a minute. I have friends in NI who say the troubles are still there, they're not widely reported on as they used to be, to fool the world into believing the troubles are over. :cry:
 
The Highway Man said:
I've served in Northern Ireland, the Province has been that way for centuries. The media says it's quiet since the ceasefire - don't believe it for a minute. I have friends in NI who say the troubles are still there, they're not widely reported on as they used to be, to fool the world into believing the troubles are over. :cry:
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Ahh, the media... I think they have grown tired of reporting the IRA and whatever goes on there... unless the insurgent have done something out of the norm, then you would see this in the media again...

It would take time for wounds to heal...
 
viper2007 said:
Ahh, the media... I think they have grown tired of reporting the IRA and whatever goes on there... unless the insurgent have done something out of the norm, then you would see this in the media again...

It would take time for wounds to heal...
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In all honesty I don't think the "troubles in Northern Ireland" will end in my life time, there is still a lot of hatred between the Loyalists and the Republicans, hatred that is passed from father to son. Bloody silly if you ask me.

Britain is in a no win situation, if Britain pulls out altogether the Loyalists will blame the British for leaving them in the lurch, and if Britain stays the Republicans call the British Army an army of occupation. What they forget, the British Army went into Northern Ireland in the first place to protect the Catholics (Republicans) from the Protestants (Loyalists).
 
The Highway Man said:
I've served in Northern Ireland, the Province has been that way for centuries. The media says it's quiet since the ceasefire - don't believe it for a minute. I have friends in NI who say the troubles are still there, they're not widely reported on as they used to be, to fool the world into believing the troubles are over. :cry:
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Yeah! a shithole to serve in. :-(
 
viper2007 said:
That what? Just because the people there have a different way of treating criminals would be seen as a weakness. Or he would prefer that this criminal be treated as how Iranians mete our their justice?
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The second, of course... (and also the first!!)
It is quite clear that he's hinting that 21 years is only four months of prison for every victim and Breivik would deserve some "just" punishment (like a death penalty...). Any other sentence would be seen as a "mistake", as a "weakness" of the system.

Apart the fact that the Norwegian Justice department could extend the 21 years (in theory) to the whole life (if the convict is considered still dangerous at the end of the 21-year- prison term), for me a judiciary system that avenges the victims is simply unconceivable ...

G'day, Sir
Alex
 
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NP8901 said:
Yeah! a shithole to serve in. :-(
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Welcome to Northeast India and Kashmir where guerrilla warfare is the word and Army is always under high alert.In Kashmir we have terrorist, in northeast separatist and inside maoist.What a peaceful place to be living in.
 
alessandro.pirisinu said:
The second, of course... (and also the first!!)
It is quite clear that he's hinting that 21 years is only four months of prison for every victim and Breivik would deserve some "just" punishment (like a death penalty...). Any other sentence would be seen as a "mistake", as a "weakness" of the system.

Apart the fact that the Norwegian Justice department could extend the 21 years (in theory) to the whole life (if the convict is considered still dangerous at the end of the 21-year- prison term), for me a judiciary system that avenges the victims is simply unconceivable ...

G'day, Sir
Alex
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Hi Alex,

Is somewhat a wonderful world we live in, doesn't it? I come from a place where we would have hang this chap. But that is Singapore, and he was tried in Norway- and they have mete out justice as they say fit.

I have no right to tell them- hang the bastard... That is Norwegian justice system. You have to respect that.
 
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