A Can of Man
Je suis aware
Politics Rattler... politics.
The thing that makes perfectly intelligent people make some seriously FUBAR decisions.
The thing that makes perfectly intelligent people make some seriously FUBAR decisions.
"Tell the USA your views on the (UK) National Health Service"
I did? In this thread I said that Govt insurance will eventually drive insurance companys out of the market. As far as basic needs, hopitals have to treat those that show up, even if they can't pay. Of the theoretical 47 million uninsured estimates are 25-30 million are illegal aliens & another 10 mill. are young people who choose to spend money on things other than insurance.
5.56X45mm
Milforum Mac Daddy
I can call my doctor right now and see him in the next two hours. No need to visit the emergency room. I pay $115 a month for medical insurance and my co-pay is $10 a visit.
Let me tell you this.... why do I as a veteran of the US Army pay for private medical care? I'm covered under the VA system and yet I don't do it. Why? Because it's a complete crock of :cen:. It's a failure unto itself. That's just for the armed forces. Wait until it's for the entire civilian populace.
List any program in which the government was able to run right. Please do so.... The CARS program was a failure outright also. Seven out of ten cars were "foreign".
Social Security - Failure
Medicare - Failure
Mass Nanny State Medical Care - Failure
VA Healthcare - Failure
CARS - Failure
Welfare - Failure
Shall I continue?
The UK's and Canada's healthcare is a joke. Folks waiting for ever for surgeries and treatment.
Cancer Survival Rates Significantly Higher in United States Than in Europe
If we bring Socialistic style Government Healthcare.... it will be rationed just like it is in the UK and Canada. Which will lead to worse care.
Once again.... I will not allow the government to view me as a investment. I'm a human being and not some piece of property. They better back the :cen: off..... I'm not happy and neither are the majority of my fellow citizens.
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A Can of Man
Je suis aware
That's funny because there's a lot of countries that have both a public and a private insurance system and both have managed to co-exist. I'm sure the American insurance companies will have the ingenuity to make it work for them as well. Of course it means they won't be making the fat profits they are making now by ripping us off but they'll adapt and stay in business. Or stick with their bad plans and go out of business.
Young people and others who don't feel they are in need of much health care don't take up insurance simply because they feel it's not worth the high prices. So what happens to this young guy if he gets into a horrible road accident and needs treatment that neither he or his family can afford?
5.56X45mm
Milforum Mac Daddy
I shouldn't have to pay for some idiots actions because he felt it wasn't necessary to have insurance. I'm 25, single, and have a high school education and my take home pay is $30,000. Yet I'm able to pay for insurance, toys, house, vacations, etc....
If my friend how is in the same social-economic class as me can't do it because he doesn't want to or can't do it because he "can't" afford it then he's not trying. Instead of having the hip iPhone and BMW he could have a normal cell phone and a regular car like me.
People can't live within their means thus they demand others to pay for their means. :cen: 'em.....
I don't work to support millions of socialistic welfare bums.
A Can of Man
Je suis aware
I suppose if someone told me they just like their dot matrix printer and that was the end of that, I'd have nothing left to say.
This discussion seems pretty close to that.
The problem of the US healthcare system is actually pretty well laid out in "The Undercover Economist" by Tim Harford. It's VERY pro-Capitalism throughout and is against government intervention but even he pointed out why the US healthcare system is highly flawed. I'd explain it to you but you're not going to pay any attention anyway so if you care enough, grab a copy of the book (it'll give you great insight into why capitalism is such an excellent system in ways that apply to us in every day life).
This discussion seems pretty close to that.
The problem of the US healthcare system is actually pretty well laid out in "The Undercover Economist" by Tim Harford. It's VERY pro-Capitalism throughout and is against government intervention but even he pointed out why the US healthcare system is highly flawed. I'd explain it to you but you're not going to pay any attention anyway so if you care enough, grab a copy of the book (it'll give you great insight into why capitalism is such an excellent system in ways that apply to us in every day life).
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Rob Henderson
Banned
Wonderful. Not everyone is able to afford that insurance... Ever heard the phrase "pre-existing condition"? It means someone with heart, lung, brain, (insert important internal organ here) problems MIGHT not be able to pick up ANY insurance. What do we do about them? Survival of the fittest?
You're right... Neither the UK nor Canada has the system we need to emulate... We NEED to emulate France's healthcare... Give a government alternative IN ADDITION TO private coverage. But it really doesn't matter... You nor anyone else against healthcare will listen because as long as you're safe, you could give two shakes of a rat's hind parts as to what happens to the rest of the world.
By the way... The REASON the cancer survival rates are higher here than in Europe are because if you have hundreds of thousands of dollars to spend on treatment, you can get treated... Problem is, most people aren't that rich.
You are a human being... Just like those who cannot afford healthcare are human beings... Would you throw them to the dogs simply because of circumstance?
perseus
Active member
Yes the US has better survival rates for cancer, but is this simply because the US spends more? A like for like comparison should compare equal spending on healthcare. Other factors as I have said are genetics, lifestyles and the cancers themselves.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/7510121.stm
Cancer is also only one aspect of healthcare, consider infant mortality and lifespan for example.
http://blog.prospect.org/blog/ezrak...s/uncategorized/health_spending_countries.jpg
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/7510121.stm
Cancer is also only one aspect of healthcare, consider infant mortality and lifespan for example.
http://blog.prospect.org/blog/ezrak...s/uncategorized/health_spending_countries.jpg
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A Can of Man
Je suis aware
Like I said, The Undercover Economist covers the US health care fiasco pretty darn well and says the same thing about more money doing less work.
I've recommended it a while ago in our books section. It's worth a read for just about everyone in here.
I've recommended it a while ago in our books section. It's worth a read for just about everyone in here.
Rob Henderson
Banned
If you can afford the chemo and other treatment for it, sure. But those who don't have health insurance because of a pre-existing condition can't afford a $175,000 chemo session. That's the average cost of one.
mmarsh
Active member
What does that have to do with the COST??? Nobody is arguing the QUALITY of care we are arguing the cost!
It doesn't matter how good our system is if 20% of the population cannot afford to use it.
The Other Guy
Spam King
57% of what? 100, or 10000? or a million? Of people with prostate cancer? Of all people? Limited to just humans, or all species?
The US views itself as the shining light of capitalism, much the same way as the Soviet Union viewed itself as the prime example of communism. Anything Government-run is out, because it hinders the free business enterprise that is the idealistic goal. On the other hand, the country does have a few government-run services, such as a postal service or national parks, and about half the country wants to see this extended to healthcare as well. But the other half does not, and believes the government is overstepping its bounds; herein lies the problem.
That is a super-condensed version of the current healthcare debacle. Hope it's helpful.
perseus
Active member
The UK NHS has a poor rate for prostate cancers, but is better than many countries for certain other illnesses. It's possible to pick and choose as this Nursing Union does. However, there is an overall rank in the table below.
[FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]
[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]http://www.commonwealthfund.org/Con...omparative-Performance-of-American-Healt.aspx[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]http://www.commonwealthfund.org/Con...omparative-Performance-of-American-Healt.aspx[/FONT][/FONT]
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USPS loses masive amounts of money & the National Parks are way underfunded & we want to extend that to Health Care. Absolutly brilliant!
Rob Henderson
Banned
Way to completely ignore everything else he, mmarsh, perseus, AND I said. I commend you on your selective reading, sir.
You can reduce costs by upping the death rate to 57%. Are costs excessive/unaffordable if we cure 80%? How's that Rob?
Rob Henderson
Banned
One down....... But costs are SITLL excessive for that 20%. I'd be willing to bet that if you had some sort of pre-existing condition that prevented you from being able to afford health insurance, you'd be looking at things MIGHTY differently. Again, it boils down to compassion for others. Just because YOU have health insurance doesn't mean you can't be sympathetic to the plight of those who DON'T have insurance.
Love thy neighbor... Don't screw him over just because it won't affect you. One day, something will affect you, and you'll want your neighbor to be there for you, not feeding you to the sharks.
Love thy neighbor... Don't screw him over just because it won't affect you. One day, something will affect you, and you'll want your neighbor to be there for you, not feeding you to the sharks.