Tea Party

Interesting point... if a Blackwater secruity person is making ten times as much as a soldier doing actually a more difficult task, isn't the soldier being ripped off big time?

In a word? YES. Espicially frustrating to the soldier when he remembers that the Blackwater mercenary and the US Soldier have exactly the same employer.

MontyB

It is the role for the government to create the conditions, but it needs funds for it to do so right? That goes back to what I was saying make those who have already profited immensely from the system be the ones who pave the way for others to do the same. What bugs me the most about the wealthy is not that they are wealthly, but the idea that their wealth absolves them from all responsibilties to the rest of the community. That is the very definition of entitlement. Only Aristocrats think they are entitled to something and we dumped our aristocrats out 200 years ago.

Why is a flat tax bad? Flat Tax Champion Steve Forbes (worth about $430 Million to date) proposed a 17% Flat Tax. Senator Dick Armey proposed a 22% Flat Tax Now most economists say that Forbes numbers would drive the US into bankruptcy and that the true number is about 25-27% just so the US government stays solvant. But we will use Forbes as an example.

The average US salary is about $40K, thats in the 22% tax bracket, the wealthest Americans those that make 1.6 Mil are in the 35% bracket. The poorest Americans those making $8000 are in the 10% Bracket

http://www.moneychimp.com/features/tax_brackets.htm (I am using a single person as an example)

So to summerize if we go to a 17% Flat tax this is what will happen:

The Rich+Very Rich will pay 17% Less taxes
The Upper Middle Class pays 10% less
The Middle Class pays about 4% more taxes
And the poorest Americans will pay a huge <7% more taxes (depending on how much they earn)

Needless to say its a huge

Finally, here is a list of countries that currently use a flat tax, as you can see its made up of either very tiny economies or countries (like in Eastern Europe) which have enormous fiscal gaps between the rich and poor.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_tax

This is a pretty good in depth study against a flax tax
http://www.dlc.org/ndol_ci.cfm?contentid=2471&kaid=125&subid=163
 
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Seems that most are either X communist countries who now support the super-rich Oligarch's, or tax havens for the wealthy.
 
How can a qualifies person not earn what the market is willing to pay? unless he doesn't apply for the job. Read some glowing reports about the economic turn around in @ least 1 of the Baltic States, pre recession.
 
How can a qualifies person not earn what the market is willing to pay? unless he doesn't apply for the job. Read some glowing reports about the economic turn around in @ least 1 of the Baltic States, pre recession.

Because some jobs dont pay market wages, like my old job. And there are several reason why a person might not be able to move to a better paying job. A bad economy for one, Not so cut and dry as you'd believe.

Well it would help to know which one. Some are doing better, others are barely making it. Then again, we were all doing better before the recession hit, and despite recent growth the Balkins is still lightyears away from being on par with 1st world countries. I dont see any reason why anybody would want to emulate ANY of the economic policies of those countries.
 
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Yada yada tea partiers want Potus to fail. Yada yada they want no central goverment. Yada yada they are racist..because they disagree with Obamas proposals. Are some racist sure. Are some anti goverment, sure. but some are truely concerned.with.taxes, more goverment oversite some are concerned about goverment not being reponsive to the people. They dont hate the goverment.they want the goverment to listen.
 
Yada yada tea partiers want Potus to fail.
I don't. I don't like him, I don't think he's legitimate, but if he really is taking these actions for the true benefit of America as a whole, then I'll back him up. I'll support him. In the end it doesn't matter to me who the POTUS is, what matters is America.
People live, people die- but the US Constitution is one step below the Holy Bible, and homeboy, that ain't no lie!

Yada yada they want no central goverment.
I disagree. we need government. Ain't no one big enough or bad enough to fill the roles the government has today. Sure, the authority is abused. But ultimately you will find that everywhere.

Yada yada they are racist..because they disagree with Obamas proposals.
A handful of them Obama-maniacs said that, and when they found out the guy I support is Alan Keyes, a few went far enough to call Alan a Klansman! Google Alan Keyes and you'll see why I think it's hilarious!

more goverment oversite some are concerned about goverment not being reponsive to the people. They dont hate the goverment.they want the goverment to listen.
EXACTLY! Big or small, it needs to be responsive and accepting of fault when it happens.
 
Yada yada tea partiers want Potus to fail. Yada yada they want no central goverment. Yada yada they are racist..because they disagree with Obamas proposals. Are some racist sure. Are some anti goverment, sure. but some are truely concerned.with.taxes, more goverment oversite some are concerned about goverment not being reponsive to the people. They dont hate the goverment.they want the goverment to listen.

Well, when you have a political party of defeatists, racists, nay-sayers, anti-government schizophrenics, and various other kooks from the fringe that all seem to cling together like static electricity you have to admit its not a very pretty sight and distracts from any legitiment questions they might have. This is where the GOP is making a mistake, it coddles the loony when it should be putting them in a box as the Democrats did during the Bush Administration for example with the 9-11 conspiracy nuts. And this is going to backfire because if middle-America is going to face a choice between the more unpopular Democrats and the wingnuts -they'll choose the democrats.

And for those "normal" people who are simply worried about taxes and the non-responsiveness of government. I am sorry to say that as per usual in America people are very ill-informed. We have already discussed this at length, Obama tax plan only increases income taxes for people making more than $250,000 a year. That isnt partisn politics that is literally what the bill says.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/03/06/AR2009030603367.html


This is a fact, written in stone. The funny part is, if you look at the states paying the higher income tax bracket will mostly be from Democrat states, and those getting the biggest taxcut are from Republican states.

http://www.realclearmarkets.com/articles/2008/11/blue_states_will_pay_obama_tax.html


So what we have on the right are good people but who are so ill-informed its enough to make you cry, and the loons. If people want to get heard from the government then they must have some idea what they are talking about.

I saw one womem screaming at Barney Frank about how we are losing our "freedoms", but couldnt specify what it was exactly she was angry about. How do you expect government to react if people speak in angry incoherence?
 
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It might be the behavior of politics of people out of power.
The Democrats weren't a very pretty sight during Bush's first term and early in his second (Howard Dean... YYEAAAAHHH). I remember that they seemed to have this attitude that they wanted more American troops to die in Iraq because that would make George W Bush even less popular and increase the odds of Kerry winning.
It's just partisan politics. Reason doesn't just get the back seat, it gets thrown out of the window.
That woman is outraged because someone told her to be.
 
It might be the behavior of politics of people out of power.
The Democrats weren't a very pretty sight during Bush's first term and early in his second (Howard Dean... YYEAAAAHHH). I remember that they seemed to have this attitude that they wanted more American troops to die in Iraq because that would make George W Bush even less popular and increase the odds of Kerry winning.
Got that right! The "not increasing taxes below 250K" thing, if it holds up, is strictly income taxes & fits the Democrat Party policy of Class Envy/Warfare. Also ignores everything else, such as "Cap N Trade" that'll nail everybody in the shorts. Think I read where New Zealand is abandoning Cap N Trade as unworkable.
 
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The vid would be powerfull if that music was not used in every goddamn national tribute of every country, i've seen Polish, German and God know how many others with it.

However it did trigger perspective for me, Americans started as a capable outstanding nation, i've read a lot about the civil war and i was massively impressed with just how much ahead of the world an average American was in the 19th/early 20th century as far as morality, ethics and education (slavery notwithstanding).

Compared to an average American of today who can be only described as dumb cattle i'm left to ponder who's working against America to make the people so horribly ignorant, its no longer the same state it promised to be, Americans today are stupid, uneducated and cynical the pursuit of money and ignorance in regards of domestic and international issues is horrid.

There is no connection between United States of the movie and America today, 100-150 years ago i'd say United States was the greatest country the world has ever seen, today its just cattle ruled by cynical elites.
 
Interesting that 9/11 conspiracy nuts are mentioned. Apparently at least one has slipped out of the box the dems were keeping them in, and made it into the current administration as the green czar. I also believe middle america is being ignored and underestimated by the current administration and the urban liberal dem's.
 
Yeah that declared Communist... what's his face.
Well he's fired now.

George, it still doesn't put the Republicans off the hook. And it certainly doesn't put the failure of a healthcare system off the hook either.
 
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Van Jones, offically it's a resignation, although I'm sure it was a required resignation. Point is both parties have their own nut jobs, no party has the market cornere.
 
There probably is a back story as to why they're even included in the first place... a part of politics we don't get to see I suppose.
 
Compared to an average American of today who can be only described as dumb cattle i'm left to ponder who's working against America to make the people so horribly ignorant, its no longer the same state it promised to be, Americans today are stupid, uneducated and cynical the pursuit of money and ignorance in regards of domestic and international issues is horrid.
There is an inverse relationship between the amount of Federal money & involvment in schools & the quality of education. As funding rises, results plunge. The National Education Association's publications read like the Liberal cause of the month, & they infest the nation's schools.
 
a few off-topic posts removed. please stay on topic from now on

Thanks
 
Interesting that 9/11 conspiracy nuts are mentioned. Apparently at least one has slipped out of the box the dems were keeping them in, and made it into the current administration as the green czar. I also believe middle america is being ignored and underestimated by the current administration and the urban liberal dem's.

USMC03

How can you say Middle America is being ignored??? The biggest healthcare reform in US history is being decided in order to HELP Middle America. Do you think East and West Coast Liberals need the Public Option? They are from the affluent states, and some of the liberal states Like VERMONT (I think Oregon too) already offer healthcare on the State level. This program isnt targetted at us, we can pay for HMOs (bad as they are) this is for the people you are mentioning.

The healthcare Bill is designed to Help those who dont have healthcare, most of which are in Middle America that are poorer and cannot afford Private Healthcare. This is why I think the Tea-baggers are off their head, this bill will help them and they actually oppose it. If Obama fails it might be the end of his Administration he is putting his entire political career on the line...and its NOT for people living on Long Island NY. Normally I would just tell the anti-obama (Group A) that they are on their own, and not to complain to me when their mother gets cancer and they cannot afford the treatments. Its not the POTUS responsibility to save foolish people from themselves. But I do feel sympathy for the people (Group B) who do want this, and who need this, but are held up by a bunch of ignorant and foolish people made up chiefly from Group A.

And again another detai about the Public Option is that its OPTIONAL. There is absolutely no requirement to take it so WTF???

Getting off Healthcare there is another example. The Obama tax cuts which will give people missing less than $250K a tax cut of up to $1000. Now I am unaware there were that there are many people making $250K a year in say...Nebraska. Which means that most of Middle America is going to qualify.

And finally a question. Why is the new President being charged with not caring about Middle America who hasnt even been in office a full year yet? The last President was FROM Middle America and his presidency lasted 8 years. What accomplishments of his did make for Middle America? Even if Obama fails he will have proved himself far more sympathetic to plight of Middle Americans than the last president did. Its not Obamas fault they are too narrow-minded not to see it. The Tea-Party people are really full of sh**. They complain about taxes being used by Obama to give health insurence to poor people but applaud loudly when on of the most expensive programs in History is lauched under a Republican President: The Iraq War. President Bush created the largest Government in US history, where were these people then?

Its this double-standard that leads me to believe that the real agenda of the tea-baggers is to oppose the president personally based on race, and not his actually policies. If what they said made a single ounce of practical sense I might understand, but all I hear is angry incoherant gibberish from people who sound like they got their GED from JCPENNY.
 
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Why? Because whether you believe it or not Middle America even the avowed Democrats tend to hold a more conservative set of political values than urban based Democrats who tend to hold a more liberal nanny goverment outlook. Believe it or don't but i see it daily. Your little rant is atypical of the left right now. if some one regardless of party affiliation disargees with the administration then by god they are a cross burning racist......kinda weak.
 
More or less thats true. Each side is vying for the moderate and independant factions, but IMO doing it wrong. The right is harping the ultra conservative line while the left is harping the ultra liberal line and throwing the race card like it's going out of style. In a big way both sides are alienating the moderates and independants.
 
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