Tank Armour - Page 3




 
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February 26th, 2005  
Kozzy Mozzy
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whispering Death
Quote:
Originally Posted by Knightraptor
If the tank is punctured and the UO2 is released into the air, it is quite lethal if inhaled.
Yeah, I'm pretty sure that's a myth about uranium in the chogum armor.

What they didn't tell us until like 2 years ago was that the Depleted uranium warheads tanks use don't work because they're so hard. The reason you see turrets of T-72s blown hundreds of feet beyond the chassis is because the depleted uranium is actually a bit unstable. When it contacts another hard target at such high speeds the uranium breaks down causing a massive energy release. This release also is radioactive.

So using it as an armor is a bad bad idea unless you want your tank crews to turn into the incredible hulk.

Side Note: Some tank crews would exit the vehicle in inspect their kills after using DU rounds since they didn't even tell the tank crews that how the DU rounds actually worked. So they think a good portion of 'Gulf War Syndrum' is from radiation exposure. When a DU rounds is used in battle now it requires a special cleanup operation once the area is secure.
This is all false.

The reason the T-72s had their turrets blown off was because of a design flaw in the T series, the ammo is stored on the turret floor. If it explodes the turret gets launched off, not because DU explodes. DU is pyrophoric, meaning when it penetrates the armor is vaporizes into tons of hot little bits, greatly increasing after armor effects. This has no where near enough energy to lift a 10 ton tank turret anywhere.

Do you have any real documents to back up your claims?
February 27th, 2005  
AlexKall
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cadet Airman Adam Seaman
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexKall
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kozzy Mozzy
Yes, the armor on the M1A1HA and M1A2 has a 2-4 inch layer of depleted Uranium oxide across it's front. It's high density makes it a great armor against KE penetrators.

It's not anymore radioactive then anything either. It's also contained within steel, so there really isn't a threat of radiation.
Steel doesn't stop gamma radiation (which in small doeses is present in depleted uranium). It is toxic, but you need quite a bit to make it leathel. Tungsten is also toxic in its way, but not comparable to depleted uranium.
This is also not true, two feet of concrete wil stop Gamma, Alpha can be stopped by paper and Beta can be stopped by wood, ( I love this liitle pic)



What is Radiation?
Radiation is in every part of our lives. It occurs naturally in the earth and can reach us through cosmic rays from outer space. Radiation may also occur naturally in the water we drink or the soils in our backyard. It even exists in food, building materials, and in our own human bodies.

Radiation is used for scientific purposes, medical reasons, and to power some submarines. We can also come into contact with radiation through sources such as X-rays, nuclear power plants, and smoke detectors.
http://www.epa.gov/radiation/students/what.html



More infomation my be obtained at http://www.epa.gov/radiation/students/types.html
Have you seen a concrete tank? If you ware refering to my before edit line about steel and lead, it was about that. Steel wont, lead will stop radiation, the word only shouldn't have been used, I admit that but as we are talking about armor, and it seems as its regarding tanks, then concrete is not in question in a modern tank.
February 27th, 2005  
FO Seaman
 
 
My point was that steel is heavyer then concrete and lead won't stop radiation it slows it.

Really? Taking about armor? You mean to tell me a concrete bunker isn't armor or a wood bunker isn't armor? Armor is anything that will stop a projectile.

Glossary of Nuclear Terms
Glossary of Nuclear Science Terms. - A - Absorber. Any material that stops ionizing radiation. Lead, concrete, and steel attenuate gamma rays. A thin sheet of paper or metal will stop or absorb alpha particles and most beta particles.www.lbl.gov/abc/Glossary.html - 18k - Cached - More from this site


http://www.lbl.gov/abc/Glossary.html

Absorber
Any material that stops ionizing radiation. Lead, concrete, and steel attenuate gamma rays. A thin sheet of paper or metal will stop or absorb alpha particles and most beta particles.
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February 28th, 2005  
AlexKall
 
"My point was that steel is heavyer then concrete and lead won't stop radiation it slows it."

Cadet, nothing "stops" radiation, even though thats the common use of word as it reduces it to a controlable level wich i keep using for some reason( ), such as simular to background radiation. Which is the same with both concrete and lead. Concreate and sand, sand as usefull as concrete really, just need alot of it. Usually when building radiation shelters they use hollow conrete blocks with sand inbetween. This regarding gamma radiation, or if money is not an issue lead is used with concrete and sand.

"Really? Taking about armor? You mean to tell me a concrete bunker isn't armor or a wood bunker isn't armor? Armor is anything that will stop a projectile.

I mentioned "tank" in my sentence.
Quoting my self:

"and it seems as its regarding tanks, then concrete is not in question in a modern tank."

I will also quote something that I wrote that I see now after words:


"Steel wont, lead will stop radiation"

Which was a stupid coment. It will "stop" (reduce) it.

I have my self played around and experimented with different meterials and "neuclar waste" emitting, alpha, beta and gamma radiation.

As most people probebly have at sometime in a class in school or some simular. Dit it around 6 years ago, and it is a quite fun thing to do.
February 28th, 2005  
FO Seaman
 
 
Steel will stop radiation.

Absorber
Any material that stops ionizing radiation. Lead, concrete, and steel attenuate gamma rays. A thin sheet of paper or metal will stop or absorb alpha particles and most beta particles.


at·ten·u·ate ( P ) Pronunciation Key (-tny-t)
v. at·ten·u·at·ed, at·ten·u·at·ing, at·ten·u·ates
v. tr.
To make slender, fine, or small: The drought attenuated the river to a narrow channel.
To reduce in force, value, amount, or degree; weaken: Medicine attentuated the fever's effect.
To lessen the density of; rarefy.
Biology. To make (bacteria or viruses) less virulent.
Electronics. To reduce (the amplitude of an electrical signal) with little or no distortion.

As you can see steel attenuate (reduce) gamma rays, as you said before lead stops (reduces) gamma. So in fact steel will stop radiation.


Quote:
Steel doesn't stop gamma radiation (which in small doeses is present in depleted uranium). It is toxic, but you need quite a bit to make it leathel. Tungsten is also toxic in its way, but not comparable to depleted uranium.
Your argument is weak, bringing Tungsten in to the argument, geesh lead is poisionous too. So is JP-8 that fuels the M1A1/A2 and the propellent that is contained in the round contains ammonia.

Calculate your radiation dose.
http://www.epa.gov/radiation/students/calculate.html


Food and Food Containers
food irradiation
Foods
Did you know? Some foods contain trace or small amounts of radionuclides. For example, trace amounts of the potassium in foods, such as bananas, are the radionuclide, potassium 40
pottery glazes
Zircon is widely used in glazes and metal molds. It contains minute amounts of uranium and thorium.
February 28th, 2005  
Whispering Death
 
 
Kozzy Mozzy my source on that is a program about the M1A2 on the History Channel.
March 1st, 2005  
AlexKall
 
"Steel will stop radiation.

Absorber
Any material that stops ionizing radiation. Lead, concrete, and steel attenuate gamma rays. A thin sheet of paper or metal will stop or absorb alpha particles and most beta particles.


at·ten·u·ate ( P ) Pronunciation Key (-tny-t)
v. at·ten·u·at·ed, at·ten·u·at·ing, at·ten·u·ates
v. tr.
To make slender, fine, or small: The drought attenuated the river to a narrow channel.
To reduce in force, value, amount, or degree; weaken: Medicine attentuated the fever's effect.
To lessen the density of; rarefy.
Biology. To make (bacteria or viruses) less virulent.
Electronics. To reduce (the amplitude of an electrical signal) with little or no distortion.

As you can see steel attenuate (reduce) gamma rays, as you said before lead stops (reduces) gamma. So in fact steel will stop radiation. "


Um yes.

Quote:
"Steel wont, lead will stop radiation"

Which was a stupid coment. It will "stop" (reduce) it.

"Your argument is weak, bringing Tungsten in to the argument, geesh lead is poisionous too. So is JP-8 that fuels the M1A1/A2 and the propellent that is contained in the round contains ammonia. "

My argument is weak?
Tungsten was just something taken out of the blue. Is it bothering you in someway? Do I need to make a list of every meterial thats poisionius if i mention two that are?

"Food and Food Containers
food irradiation
Foods
Did you know? Some foods contain trace or small amounts of radionuclides. For example, trace amounts of the potassium in foods, such as bananas, are the radionuclide, potassium 40
pottery glazes
Zircon is widely used in glazes and metal molds. It contains minute amounts of uranium and thorium."


Yes theres alot of things that are radiactive, thats basicly whats mentioned as background radiation. And I don't really see how this has anything to do with a tanks armor. Or armor at all, unless you intened on making armor out of food :P
March 1st, 2005  
FO Seaman
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexKall
"Steel wont, lead will stop radiation"
As you can see steel will stop radiation. But you said it would'nt.

And my point was that radiation is all around and you make a big deal out of it.

And yes your argument is weak, hello yes DU is poisionous as is Tunsten, lead, ammonia,and JP-8. You blow DU out of proportion and claim is harms civilians, so do all of those. Do you want us to ban lead bullets?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexKall
I have my self played around and experimented with different meterials and "neuclar waste" emitting, alpha, beta and gamma radiation.
I'm quite sure schools let people play around with Urainium and Plutonium.

My point is that you say onething is bad when we use many dangrous things.

Man, read a EPA report or something.
March 2nd, 2005  
AlexKall
 
"And yes your argument is weak, hello yes DU is poisionous as is Tunsten, lead, ammonia,and JP-8. You blow DU out of proportion and claim is harms civilians, so do all of those. Do you want us to ban lead bullets?"

Firstly, stop putting your words as if I said them. And clearly you haven't understood one thing. I never said DU harms civilians, never blew DU out of porportions. I said that DU is a bit more poisionous then tugsten, nothing other then that. I never said DU should be banned nor stop to continnue using it. I don't care if its used in tank armor. So stop trashing down on everything I write.

"As you can see steel will stop radiation. But you said it would'nt."

Read this:

"Which was a stupid coment. It will "stop" (reduce) it."

About 100 times till you see what I ment with that.

"I'm quite sure schools let people play around with Urainium and Plutonium."

Thats good

"My point is that you say onething is bad when we use many dangrous things.

Please explain what you're refering too and what you ment by that.
March 2nd, 2005  
FO Seaman
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexKall
Steel doesn't stop gamma radiation (which in small doeses is present in depleted uranium). It is toxic, but you need quite a bit to make it leathel. Tungsten is also toxic in its way, but not comparable to depleted uranium.

If you ware refering to my before edit line about steel and lead, it was about that. Steel wont, lead will stop radiation, the word only shouldn't have been used, I admit that but as we are talking about armor, and it seems as its regarding tanks, then concrete is not in question in a modern tank.

Cadet, nothing "stops" radiation, even though thats the common use of word as it reduces it to a controlable level wich i keep using for some reason, such as simular to background radiation. Which is the same with both concrete and lead. Concreate and sand, sand as usefull as concrete really, just need alot of it. Usually when building radiation shelters they use hollow conrete blocks with sand inbetween. This regarding gamma radiation, or if money is not an issue lead is used with concrete and sand
You have no point. You say lead stops radiation, then you say nothing stops radiation. You claim steel doesn't slow radiation. You say Tungsten is almsot as poisionous as Urainium.

Do you even know how radiation poisioning affects the human body.

The radiation effects the kidneys and they go haywirer and they start to produce cells that don't carry oxygen or red blood, the cells don't replentish the blood in the arms and legs. You start to loose your hair because of the lose of red blood and you arms start to turn pale and you turn weak and feeble. Then you die from lose of good blood.

Tungsten doesn't radiate thermal energy like Urainium or Plutonium. It does not effect you kidneys, it effects your blood directly like lead. It poisions your heart.

And no I have not heard of a concrete tank but I'm sure if it had the properties of steel it would be used as armor.