Talented German commanders. - Page 5




 
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November 5th, 2012  
MontyB
 
 
The concern in re-evaluating Guderian is that we may go to far in adjusting his contribution, I do not think he was a bad commander and his input into operation Fall Gelb alone is enough to put him in the list of talented commanders.

But it is very obvious that he is a man that wrote his own reputation (as did many others so he is not alone there) and like Manstein he was not enthusiastic about accepting critique of his performance.

As for my comment selecting Kluge and Rommel well it is well known that he did not see eye to eye with von Kluge yet there is little evidence to suggest Kluge reciprocated those views.
Rommel on the other hand did not appear critical of Guderian yet Guderian did once say of Rommel "His problem is that he has to have everything his own way" and the two clearly had different views on the defense of France.
November 9th, 2012  
Doppleganger
 
 
Well as Kluge did not survive the war we don't have the benefit of his viewpoint. The evidence that does exist suggests that him and Guderian did not get on. Kluge was a methodical, careful commander who probably would have seen Guderian's armoured thrusts far ahead of supporting infantry as reckless.

As for Rommel's opinions on the defence of France we've discussed this previously and did not reach any agreement. Rundstedt and Schweppenburg also disagreed with Rommel so I don't think that makes a strong case for Rommel being a particular opponent of Guderian.
March 31st, 2014  
JOC
 
 

Topic: Michael Wittmann


Wittman was one of the wars top tank aces with I believe over a 100 kills personally most in Russia some in France where he meet his end. However he only led a small tactical group and was not a General or Field Marshal so his command was limited to a handful of armed vehicles and support troops
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March 31st, 2014  
JOC
 
 

Topic: Manstein


Manstein was the brains behind the attack on west in 1940 by surprising the allies by cutting though the Ardennes forest. To cut them into 2 ˝ half’s. He and Gurderion devised the Blitzkrieg tactics for the invasion of the west. Which Hitler embraced. Manstein saved the army group that would have been trapped in the Caucuses effectively preventing another Stalingrad. Then after a successful Soviet counter attract in the winter of 43 he used his mobile defenses tactics (to avoid animation) and dealt the Soviets the last major defeat at Kharkov and Belgorod. This left the Red army anxious about the upcoming summer. Hitler then insisted Citadel and as Manstein put it, he felt like he was fighting 2 enemies the Red army and Hitler. Manstein correctly stated that Hitler waited too long and lost the initiate and lost Kurst by a small margin. His prowess on how to overcome the Russians with lesser forces lead to his being appointed to a major consultant position for NATO.
April 1st, 2014  
MontyB
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JOC
Wittman was one of the wars top tank aces with I believe over a 100 kills personally most in Russia some in France where he meet his end. However he only led a small tactical group and was not a General or Field Marshal so his command was limited to a handful of armed vehicles and support troops

Lets also not forget that Wittmann (138) was the 5th highest German tank ace behind, Knispel (168), Schroif (161), Carius (150) and Bolter (144).

However as the question only asks for talented German commanders I guess any one that commanded anything applies.
April 1st, 2014  
lljadw
 
The whole Witmann story is mostly mythical .
April 1st, 2014  
lljadw
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JOC
Manstein was the brains behind the attack on west in 1940 by surprising the allies by cutting though the Ardennes forest. To cut them into 2 ˝ half’s. He and Gurderion devised the Blitzkrieg tactics for the invasion of the west. Which Hitler embraced. Manstein saved the army group that would have been trapped in the Caucuses effectively preventing another Stalingrad. Then after a successful Soviet counter attract in the winter of 43 he used his mobile defenses tactics (to avoid animation) and dealt the Soviets the last major defeat at Kharkov and Belgorod. This left the Red army anxious about the upcoming summer. Hitler then insisted Citadel and as Manstein put it, he felt like he was fighting 2 enemies the Red army and Hitler. Manstein correctly stated that Hitler waited too long and lost the initiate and lost Kurst by a small margin. His prowess on how to overcome the Russians with lesser forces lead to his being appointed to a major consultant position for NATO.

There was an ocean of difference between what Manstein said and what Manstein did .
April 1st, 2014  
JOC
 
 

Topic: Actually Manstein was somewhat composed


Quote:
Originally Posted by lljadw
There was an ocean of difference between what Manstein said and what Manstein did .
How do you figure this? What's the proof? Manstein as I understand it was somewhat composed and didn't unnecessary draw attention to himself. Even the allies admired him for his composure and professionalism under pressure. His man fault was he did get involved in some war crimes in the USSR by appropriating food stocks from the locals basically leaving them to stave. However everyone has an opinion.
April 1st, 2014  
lljadw
 
Of course,you are joking ,it's All Fools Day

Manstein did as the other defeated German generals : claiming the victories and blaming Hitler for the defeats.
April 1st, 2014  
lljadw
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JOC
Manstein was the brains behind the attack on west in 1940 by surprising the allies by cutting though the Ardennes forest. To cut them into 2 ˝ half’s. He and Gurderion devised the Blitzkrieg tactics for the invasion of the west. Which Hitler embraced. Manstein saved the army group that would have been trapped in the Caucuses effectively preventing another Stalingrad. Then after a successful Soviet counter attract in the winter of 43 he used his mobile defenses tactics (to avoid animation) and dealt the Soviets the last major defeat at Kharkov and Belgorod. This left the Red army anxious about the upcoming summer. Hitler then insisted Citadel and as Manstein put it, he felt like he was fighting 2 enemies the Red army and Hitler. Manstein correctly stated that Hitler waited too long and lost the initiate and lost Kurst by a small margin. His prowess on how to overcome the Russians with lesser forces lead to his being appointed to a major consultant position for NATO.
1)He did not prevent another Stalingrad

2)Hitler did not insist on Citadelle,but the OKH (Zeitzler)

3) Kursk was not lost by a small margin : the Germans had asmuch chance to win Citadelle,as the former governor of Alaska has to become president of the US.

4)When did he overcome the Russians with less forces ?

5)Manstein as a major consultant for Nato ?
 


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