Swords/sabers in the modern day

[Prapor]

These days, bladed weapons are, of course, mostly ceremonial.

In various honor guard arrangements, for example

In religious observance, as kirpans, for instance, worn by Sikhs

They are also used in historic reenactments

Popular among young people here in Russia, particularly history students, for whom this is considered the best way to learn about our ancestors: through personal experience.

For my people, Cossacks (I am part Chechen, but I consider myself Cossack), blade weaponry is both ceremonial, yet also a very real part of our lives. We all carry a shashka saber, but it is not just for show, we know how to use them, learn almost since we learn to walk, it is the weapon of our forefathers, as dear to us as the AK

So, my question: do blade weapons have a place in the modern century? I say yes.

 

[brinktk]

I say yes too. I may not carry a sword, but I do carry a tanto Ka-bar knife above my mag pouches on my chest rigged IOTV body Armor. You just never know when you will have to use one. During the invasion of Iraq my platoon sgt made all the soldiers tie their bayonet to our pistol belts. There came a time when I desperately needed this knife in a close quarters encounter....let's just say I will NEVER go without an easily accessable combat knife again.

 

[Prapor]

I say yes too. I may not carry a sword, but I do carry a tanto Ka-bar knife above my mag pouches on my chest rigged IOTV body Armor. You just never know when you will have to use one. During the invasion of Iraq my platoon sgt made all the soldiers tie their bayonet to our pistol belts. There came a time when I desperately needed this knife in a close quarters encounter....let's just say I will NEVER go without an easily accessable combat knife again.

Agreed. I love knives, swords, and that kind of thing. Collect them, actually. I have this really great one, I bought this at a street market in Thailand, took me great pains and much bribes to get it into the country, but all worth it

With it is my American Mossberg 500 shotgun. They import these now, for police. We Cossacks have legal access to police and military armories now that, since 2008, our militias are considered a branch of security forces One of the few things we love about America - your shotguns lol

 

[brinktk]

Can't go wrong with a mossberg. Sturdy, reliable, and affordable. I have 2 of them myself, one for hunting, one for home defense.

They're also great for door breeching and close combat...as long as your adversary isn't wearing any body armor that is.

 

[84RFK]

Can't go wrong with a mossberg. Sturdy, reliable, and affordable. I have 2 of them myself, one for hunting, one for home defense.

They're also great for door breeching and close combat...as long as your adversary isn't wearing any body armor that is.

Home defense is not an issue where I live, but should the need arise there's always something here that could utilized for that purpose as well.
And in that case, my old Martini Greener is by far more handy than my Wingmaster.
As for body armour, in a close combat situation it will prevent you from get pierced by whatever projectile that hit you, but it will not prevent you from being slammed up against a wall and end up a pile of man gasping for air on the floor afterwards...

As for blades, I can't really remember being without some kind of egded instrument since the age of 7, where I live a knife is considered a tool and we'd be lost without it.
While in service I had a US Marines knife strappet to my gear, our issued pocket-knife in the left chest-pocket, and since we wasn't issued bayonets I was hauling a M1 Garand bayonet around just to keep our NCO's properly anoyed. :mrgreen:

Would love to get my hands on a Shaska though! irate2:

 

[Prapor]

Home defense is not an issue where I live, but should the need arise there's always something here that could utilized for that purpose as well.
And in that case, my old Martini Greener is by far more handy than my Wingmaster.
As for body armour, in a close combat situation it will prevent you from get pierced by whatever projectile that hit you, but it will not prevent you from being slammed up against a wall and end up a pile of man gasping for air on the floor afterwards...

As for blades, I can't really remember being without some kind of egded instrument since the age of 7, where I live a knife is considered a tool and we'd be lost without it.
While in service I had a US Marines knife strappet to my gear, our issued pocket-knife in the left chest-pocket, and since we wasn't issued bayonets I was hauling a M1 Garand bayonet around just to keep our NCO's properly anoyed. :mrgreen:

Would love to get my hands on a Shaska though! irate2:

Bayonettes are great. Modern Kalashnikov bayonettes are short, you can carry it like a regular knife

That little Cossack boy with his grandfather (I assume) has a AKM Naval Infantry (Marine)-issue bayonette in his belt. I suppose they decided a kinzhal is too big for him yet

This is what our boys normally carry

Shashkas are for adult men only

Well... usually

:-D

 

[Korean Seaboy]

Yes I believe they are essential in the modern day too. In guerrilla warfare (such as in Afghanistan now), close-counter combat are common like brinktk said. In modern day, there's mostly unconventional warfare (conventional warfare is nonexistent due to nukes), so close encounters are to be expected. That's why there's still hand-to-hand combat fighting training and such for the military

 

[84RFK]

Nice Prapor!

I had to read me up a bit on the Shaska, but I still haven't found a good explaination as to why they are carried "upside down" :?:
Suppose it has something to do with being mounted on a horse, but still there must be a difficult twist of the hand in order to draw it..

 

[Prapor]

Yes I believe they are essential in the modern day too. In guerrilla warfare (such as in Afghanistan now), close-counter combat are common like brinktk said. In modern day, there's mostly unconventional warfare (conventional warfare is nonexistent due to nukes), so close encounters are to be expected. That's why there's still hand-to-hand combat fighting training and such for the military

Yep. And in this country there is another purpose too. In Moscow and such places, where people are meek, unarmed, and do not challenge the authorities, the police do whatever they want, disrespect and humiliate and brutalize people constantly. Not on our territories though. In Moscow, they bow down to their coppers. In, say, Novocherkassk, the Cossack capital, it is the policemen who look down to the ground when a Cossack walks nearby. Because it is one thing to shove some skinny computer geek in Moscow. It is quite another to try that with a 2 meters tall man with a shashka saber.

Nice Prapor!

I had to read me up a bit on the Shaska, but I still haven't found a good explaination as to why they are carried "upside down" :?:
Suppose it has something to do with being mounted on a horse, but still there must be a difficult twist of the hand in order to draw it..

Thank you. Well, the reason is, we do not draw the way they do in Europe, for example.

We draw down

Or to the side

or, the most popular way, up

The advantage of this is, you don't need to swing back to attack after you draw, you can slash or chop at your opponent right away.

Some videos:

Shashka drawing speed competition in Novocherkassk:
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9n_b3vZ42tI&feature=player_embedded"]v=9n_b3vZ42tI[/ame]

Kubanian Cossack Aleksei Ziablov (a good friend of mine, actually) shows how to properly draw and hold a shaska:
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSXEicQCS5U&feature=related"]YouTube - ‪MOV02689.mp4‬‏[/ame]

 

[A Can of Man]

This is REALLY good stuff!
Not really a blade person myself though I've always wanted to learn. I just use it as an extension of my hand techniques but I know I'm not getting the full potential of the blade that way. Unless we're talking about bayonets. I can rock that baby pretty well lol.

 

[LeEnfield]

A rifle and bayonet I can understand, but a sword is just ornamental and a dam nuisance to carry. It is great on Parades waving it about but that is about all it could be used for.
For the weight of sword you could carry at least another 50 rounds of ammunition which would do you far more good than a sword would

 

[Prapor]

This is REALLY good stuff!
Not really a blade person myself though I've always wanted to learn. I just use it as an extension of my hand techniques but I know I'm not getting the full potential of the blade that way. Unless we're talking about bayonets. I can rock that baby pretty well lol.

Well, we learn that sort of thing early on, as kids. Youth use wooden 'shashkas'
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QI82lFAxjoY&feature=related"]Shashka lesson[/ame]

Adult men, of course, practice with real weapons, which is much more dangerous of course
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_YCcE9dksU&feature=related"]Practice[/ame]

A rifle and bayonet I can understand, but a sword is just ornamental and a dam nuisance to carry. It is great on Parades waving it about but that is about all it could be used for.
For the weight of sword you could carry at least another 50 rounds of ammunition which would do you far more good than a sword would

Well, around here people don't carry 50 rounds of ammo with them on a daily basis. You can, however, get a brick over the head or a knife under the ribs in a park or a dark archway between buildings, from a street robber looking for some quick cash. We who carry kinzhals and shashkas have not ever been robbed yet, i can tell you that

 

[84RFK]

Quite informative, thanks a lot Prapor!

Ah well LeEnfield, I don't suppose I would march off to war weilding a sabre, but then again, I can barely tell what's the rear end of a horse either...

 

[LeEnfield]

Prapor

Were I live people don't need to carry swords,knifes,bricks or guns as we have a decent Police Force, still if lived were you do then know doubt I would carry some thing to defend my self

 

[Prapor]

Prapor

Were I live people don't need to carry swords,knifes,bricks or guns as we have a decent Police Force, still if lived were you do then know doubt I would carry some thing to defend my self

Yes, you are lucky that way. Where I live, you may find the police and the bandits are in it together. In fact, you may discover that some bandits are simply coppers on holiday leave.

That is why we rely on ourselves only.

There is a man, Andrei Karimov, a Cossack in Siberia

He is a master of Systema Ryabko, was a student under Vasily Ryabko himself in the 80s. Now, he has invented a new style of Systema, called Systema Sibisrky Kazak, which is tailored for Cossacks, adapted with our own ancestral martial art, dzhigitka, to use weapons commonly carried by Cossacks: shashka, kinzhal, and nagaika (short whip)

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDTiZVHGcwc"]Karimov: Shashka[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6y7FXSynl8w&feature=related"]Karimov: Knife + Nagaika[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZV2SkVv8wE&feature=related"]Karimov: Stick[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHENCw9ki5U"]Karimov with family and students at Novosibirsk Cossack festival[/ame]

Andrei Karimov is famous today also for his country-wide chain of Zastava (Outpost) camps for Cossack youth
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KtNt01zUTIQ"]Zastava camp[/ame]
We all send our children there every summer.

Andrei Karimov is probably the best fighter in Russia. Better than Fedor Emelianenko. As a matter of fact, they had some public sapt couple years back, where Emelianenko questioned Karimov's techniques and expertise. Claimed he (Karimov) is not the master he claims to be. In return, Andrei challenged him to a fight, wherever, whenever he wants. That challenge is still unanswered.

Great man.

 

[Korean Seaboy]

In Korea, Kumdo is the most popular sport related to swords. Whereas in fencing, it uses one hand, Kumdo uses both hands to grasp the blade.

 

[Lombard]

Funny because Systema originates from sabre fighting, similiar flow of circular movement

 

[MontyB]

Hehe this thread reminds me of the Mythbusters episode where they tried to bust the statement "Never bring a knife to a gun fight" and discovered that within 20 feet the knife wielder had an advantage.

 

[Lombard]

Especially ballistic knife

 

[MontyB]

Especially ballistic knife

I have never yet seen anyone speak favourably of ballistic knives.