Surrender




 
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November 12th, 2014  
tetvet
 

Topic: Surrender


In Singapore 1941 General Yamashita pounded on the table and told General Percival that you must surrender you have me out numbered 3 to 1 Percy bought it and surrendered .
November 12th, 2014  
BritinAfrica
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tetvet
In Singapore 1941 General Yamashita pounded on the table and told General Percival that you must surrender you have me out numbered 3 to 1 Percy bought it and surrendered .
Ah the anti British sentiment coming out again.

Not quite. Yamashita pounded on the table and demanded Percival surrender but he didn't say anything about being outnumbered.

Although Percy outnumbered the Japanese Singapore was being bombed quite heavily, the water reservoirs were destroyed as well as cutting off the supply of water from the Malayan mainland. The Royal Air Force Brewster Buffalo's were no match for the Japanese Zero fighters and were completey destroyed. The Royal Navy lost the Prince of Wales and Repulse as they were without aircover. I was stationed in Singapore and know the Island and its history quite well, Percival had no option but surrender.

If you are going to insult the British get your facts right.

Oh by the way, didn't US forces surrender to the Japanese on the Philippines?
November 12th, 2014  
tetvet
 
I am aware of the hard facts concerning Singapore but as Churchill said this was the worse defeat in the history of the Empire he was furious at Percy .
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November 12th, 2014  
JOC
 
 
These were very dark hours in the history of both nations as the Japanese made many successes early one.
The worse part is the absolute deplorable treatment the surrendered men received by these animals in both cases.
November 12th, 2014  
tetvet
 
Using hindsight it would have been much better for the Brits at Singapore and the Germans at Stalingrad if they had fought on .
November 13th, 2014  
BritinAfrica
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tetvet
Using hindsight it would have been much better for the Brits at Singapore and the Germans at Stalingrad if they had fought on .
Absolute nonsense. The Japanese had air superiority for a start, they had resupply the British didn't, and as I stated water was running out. I don't care how good an army is they cannot fight without water. The British were equiped with out dated and completely useless equipment for that theater. The British and Commonwealth troops were being pushed back towards Singapore City daily.


Quote:
Originally Posted by tetvet
I am aware of the hard facts concerning Singapore but as Churchill said this was the worse defeat in the history of the Empire he was furious at Percy .
You are completely aware of the hard facts concerning Singapore? I very much doubt it.

Yes it was the worst defeat in British history, the defeat can be laid at the feet of successive British governments for the failure between the wars to equip the military in the Far East with modern up to date wepons and equipment also there is the failure of senior British Officers to train British troops in jungle warfare. The Japanese were better trained and equiped at that time. I will agree Percival was the wrong man to command Singapore, he never carried out his orders as laid down by those above him. In the end he had no option but to surrender.

They were not called the "Forgotten Army" for nothing.
November 13th, 2014  
Kesse81
 
You can say that the Brits were generally Out-generalled, Outwitted, and Outfought.
Surrender was the only option.
November 13th, 2014  
JOC
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tetvet
Using hindsight it would have been much better for the Brits at Singapore and the Germans at Stalingrad if they had fought on .
You can't really compare this with the German surrender at Stalingrad. Paulus obeyed Hitler's order and fought to the bitter end. When they finally surrendered they were out of food and ammunition and were a pretty sorry lot. By this time it was impossible for them to link up with Manstein. The Germans took ~ 400 thousand killed and wounded and only 110 thousand surrendered. No fan of the Germans here but just setting the record straight.
November 13th, 2014  
brinktk
 
 
I think he was trying to point out that had the British forces known what was ahead of them in Japanese captivity, it may have been preferable to fight it out even with all the limitations.

Whether or not that is a reasonable assumption is up for debate...I think if I knew I was about to be captured by ISIS(or the Japanese of 1941/ Russians in 1943) I would rather take my chances dying on my own terms as opposed to execution, starvation, overwork, disease, gulag, freezing to death, torture or any number of ways you could die in these instances...of course, hindsight is 20/20...foresight is much more difficult.
November 13th, 2014  
JOC
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by brinktk
I think he was trying to point out that had the British forces known what was ahead of them in Japanese captivity, it may have been preferable to fight it out even with all the limitations.

Whether or not that is a reasonable assumption is up for debate...I think if I knew I was about to be captured by ISIS(or the Japanese of 1941/ Russians in 1943) I would rather take my chances dying on my own terms as opposed to execution, starvation, overwork, disease, gulag, freezing to death, torture or any number of ways you could die in these instances...of course, hindsight is 20/20...foresight is much more difficult.
In the case of the 6th army and parts of 4th panzer army at Stalingrad they had no food or ammunition left to fight with and were freezing and starving. Also the vast majority of them had already died or been wounded so only ~ 1/5 of the army actually surrendered. The fate of all POW's taken on the eastern front was very grim.
 


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