Originally Posted by George

S.B.A(the govt)'s definition of Small Business. Once agin, Corporations don't pay taxes, they're an expence that is passed on to their customers. If you raise business taxes, we just pay more for the product. Heard that Buffett's Berkshire-Hathaway owes back taxes, but if Buffett is really suffering from Sucsessfull White Liberal Guilt Syndrome he can whip out the check book & write the IRS a check for what ever amount he wants. Why should others suffer from his probem?
Are some of you dissapointed Obama didn't reenacted the "choppers off the roof" evacuation of Saigon in Baghdad or Kabul by now?

In theory yes, but it reality thats very unlikely.

1. First of all, its very bad PR. People are going to ask about the increase in prices and when they find out the truth, how sympathetic do you think consumers will be that a US manufacturer is passing their taxes on to them? All corporations fear the angry consumer.

2. And on the same note, Foreign competition keeps the locals in line. If FORD decides to pass increased taxes to consumers, people are going to buy cheaper HYUNDAI instead. The truth is people support American products but they will buy whatever is cheapest. If US corporations get greedy and expect consumers to pay the difference expect sales to swiftly fall. Corporations know this, in business passing costs to the consumer is generally THE LAST thing you do, not the first. Especially in a highly competitive market.

Its precisely what happened in the Steel industry 10 years ago. US Steel got a little too greedy and the auto makers started to buy Russian cheaper steel for their cars instead, which provoked a trade war which hurt everyone.

Originally Posted by mmarsh

In theory yes, but it reality thats very unlikely.

1. First of all, its very bad PR. People are going to ask about the increase in prices and when they find out the truth, how sympathetic do you think consumers will be that a US manufacturer is passing their taxes on to them? All corporations fear the angry consumer.

2. And on the same note, Foreign competition keeps the locals in line. If FORD decides to pass increased taxes to consumers, people are going to buy cheaper HYUNDAI instead. The truth is people support American products but they will buy whatever is cheapest. If US corporations get greedy and expect consumers to pay the difference expect sales to swiftly fall. Corporations know this, in business passing costs to the consumer is generally THE LAST thing you do, not the first. Especially in a highly competitive market.

Its precisely what happened in the Steel industry 10 years ago. US Steel got a little too greedy and the auto makers started to buy Russian cheaper steel for their cars instead, which provoked a trade war which hurt everyone.

1. That's because people think Corp pay taxes, they don't understand that taxes are an expence & expences are passed on to the consumer. Basic accounting. A Democrat US Rep or Senator was on Louis Rukeyser's "Wall street Week" many years ago & even he couldn't grasp the concept that taxes are expences that are passed on.
2. That's supposed to be the point of free trade, keep the locals from gouging. for decades we payed 25 cents/lb for sugar when the int rate was 4 cents/lb. Pass The Fair Tax, @ least we'll keep the politicians from monkeying with the tax code, & get all the hidden taxes(23% of retail price) out of the price.

Originally Posted by George

1. That's because people think Corp pay taxes, they don't understand that taxes are an expence & expences are passed on to the consumer. Basic accounting. A Democrat US Rep or Senator was on Louis Rukeyser's "Wall street Week" many years ago & even he couldn't grasp the concept that taxes are expences that are passed on.
2. That's supposed to be the point of free trade, keep the locals from gouging. for decades we payed 25 cents/lb for sugar when the int rate was 4 cents/lb. Pass The Fair Tax, @ least we'll keep the politicians from monkeying with the tax code, & get all the hidden taxes(23% of retail price) out of the price.

1. I don't thats true anymore George. I think very recently (say over the last 5-10 years) people are beginning to realize that corporations are NOT paying their fair taxes. Espicially when the economy in the toilet and corporations still making record profits, people are beginning to wonder at the fairness of the entire economic system. There has been a very recent awakening on that very subject which is precisely why the calls to raise corporate/wealthy incomes taxes is getting louder and more popular (even amongst Republican voters).

If corporate taxes go up and prices go up in turn their is going to be some very angry consumers. In fact I am willing to bet $ on it.

2. But their are abuses of freedom is the point. Even in a free society there are limits as to what one can do. IMHO Free trade doesn't mean freedom to exploit people or freedom from any responsibility (like paying taxes, or not adhering to environmental regulations). And thats my problem with "Free trade", the fact that it has become "no holds barred" where nearly anything/everything is permitted for the shake of profit. If it weren't prohibited by international law, corporations would compete by shooting at each other just like they did in the 14th-15th century. Want to keep a competitors product out of the market, hire arsons to burn down his warehouse. It happens a lot in IT, as corporations hire hackers to snoop and occasionally sabotage each other. Take the latest Google-Facebook scandal.

There is no thing to say that corporations cannot make money and STILL obey certain rules. They would like you to believe otherwise but its simply not true. Its just laziness and specifically greed. Sure putting filters on smokestacks would reduce pollution, but they don't want to do it because that costs money. They would rather you and I get cancer breathing in their crap they burn then pay to have the filters installed.

Originally Posted by mmarsh

1. I don't thats true anymore George. I think very recently (say over the last 5-10 years) people are beginning to realize that corporations are NOT paying their fair taxes. Espicially when the economy in the toilet and corporations still making record profits, people are beginning to wonder at the fairness of the entire economic system. There has been a very recent awakening on that very subject which is precisely why the calls to raise corporate/wealthy incomes taxes is getting louder and more popular (even amongst Republican voters).

If corporate taxes go up and prices go up in turn their is going to be some very angry consumers. In fact I am willing to bet $ on it.

2. But their are abuses of freedom is the point. Even in a free society there are limits as to what one can do. IMHO Free trade doesn't mean freedom to exploit people or freedom from any responsibility (like paying taxes, or not adhering to environmental regulations). And thats my problem with "Free trade", the fact that it has become "no holds barred" where nearly anything/everything is permitted for the shake of profit. If it weren't prohibited by international law, corporations would compete by shooting at each other just like they did in the 14th-15th century. Want to keep a competitors product out of the market, hire arsons to burn down his warehouse. It happens a lot in IT, as corporations hire hackers to snoop and occasionally sabotage each other. Take the latest Google-Facebook scandal.

There is no thing to say that corporations cannot make money and STILL obey certain rules. They would like you to believe otherwise but its simply not true. Its just laziness and specifically greed. Sure putting filters on smokestacks would reduce pollution, but they don't want to do it because that costs money. They would rather you and I get cancer breathing in their crap they burn then pay to have the filters installed.

Basic accounting. The books won't balance unless taxes are listed as an expence. Expences are passed on to the consumer. The corp. collects the taxes & writes a check to the Govt. People who don't understand think it great that the corporations are paying taxes, or their not paying "their fair share" or not, but it doesn't matter, it's an illusion used by people to stir up the masses.
A corp that wants to reduce costs by not installing pollution gear is a different subject.