Supporters of Obama in 2008: Have you changed? - Page 7




 
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Supporters of Obama in 2008: Have you changed?
 
August 31st, 2011  
RayManKiller3
 
Supporters of Obama in 2008: Have you changed?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mmarsh
Raymankiller3

I'm confused. You want to lower corporate taxes but admit that doing so wont accomplish very much (which I agree with). Well then whats the point?

Furthermore corporate taxes in the USA are much lower then they are elsewhere and because of the loopholes they exploit many of them don't pay any tax at all. Example Exxon Mobile in 2009, they are actually given tax rebates ($156 Million in Exxon's case) despite paying no US income tax and their profits in 2009 were $19 Billion.

But whose taxes does the GOP want to raise? The poor.

BTW most corporations move operations overseas because labor costs less not because of taxes. They actually keep their HQ in the USA because if they were to move it abroad they would no longer be considered a US Company (and lose all the loopholes and freebies).

So its actually sicker that what you say. They ship US jobs overseas and pay the employees their peanuts, make huge profits and pay no US corporate income tax, but still collect tax rebates.

I agree that people are deluded to think lowering corporate tax will bring US jobs back. Those jobs are gone. A union job that pays $29 an hour assembling cars can't compete with the same job being done for .50 cents an hour in Indonesia. And US corporations see only green, not red, white, and blue.

The problem is the Democrats. Aside for a few like Bernie Sanders, these spineless wimps did nothing when Obama shifted to the right. Obama is supporting what USED to be GOP positions before the GOP went off the deep end trying to convert America into a Pseudo-Christian theocracy run by oligarchs.

My solution would be to raise taxes and close all loopholes and rebates that they use. Also use the IRS to find monies hiding in foreign bank accounts and criminally prosecute all tax cheats.
When I said I agree it should be lowered, I was trying to be optimistic. Remember, not all corporations are completely rich. I am not sure of the statistics of how many there are of those compared to the super rich ones though.

I forgot to mention I wanted a tax reform as well to cover any and all tax loopholes. Which you stated

Do you think China and other countries would get angry if U.S enacted trade taxes on unpatriotic companies who ship a great deal of manufacturing jobs overseas? This would be considered trade protection so many will disagree with doing that right?


Quote:
Originally Posted by namvet
congrads. but your views are more in line with liberals.



we're 3 years in and no end in sight for the war in afghan. in fact he's escalating it. in your opinion how long should it take???



is that why we're 10 trillion in the hole??? democrats don't solve problems. they throw money it.

the voting age should go back to 21. or higher

how obama got elected

I do agree that the voting age should go back up, but if that happens, so should the age of being drafted and serving. It would suck to be able to be drafted and die for a country you can't vote in.

not to be insulting, but democracy itself have huge failiures in it. The majority of this country is either stupid, lazy, selfish, or plain naive on how a country should be run. Most people disagree with the economic suggestions on how to fix the economy, but remember, a great deal if not most of those people don't really know economics.

I have went to business, accounting, and economic classes in college.

That is why I don't heed popularity polls or polls showing how the public disagrees on how things are going. I say leave the economics to the economist and only allow those people to vote for just once so we can see where it leans.

Where U.S's education stands right now makes me question what the future will be like once the next few generations take control.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I only remember Obama stating he wanted to end the war in Iraq; he is completely for the war in Afganistan, he has always been in agreement for that war.


14+ trillion dollars in the hole thanks to both parties, but I still believe democrats can handle economics better.
August 31st, 2011  
muscogeemike
 
“…not to be insulting, but democracy itself have huge failiures in it. The majority of this country is either stupid, lazy, selfish, or plain naive on how a country should be run. Most people disagree with the economic suggestions on how to fix the economy, but remember, a great deal if not most of those people don't really know economics.”


RayManKiller3 - I’m not insulted - I’ve been preaching for 50 years that at least 60% of all people are stupid and 90% of the rest are apathetic! I admit that I'm not sure I don't fit into one of these catagories.

The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter. W. Churchill
August 31st, 2011  
mmarsh
 
 
Raymankilller3

Do you know what defines a Corporation from a Small Business? Its not the number of employees, or the money they make, or its physical size.

Its based the number of owners it has.

You take a company like BECHTEL (largest engineering firm in the world), with 31000 employees and $31 Billion in the bank. Yet because it only has 1 owner (meaning its privately owned not publicly traded) BECHTEL is considered get this...A Small Business.

And here's the rub because BECHTEL is a "small business" it gets all the benefits that government gives out. So when politicans (mainly republicans) talk about "helping small business" (you hear that line a lot) they don't mean helping the mom and pop hardware store. They are really talking about companies like Bechtel.

So the definition what is legally a corporation is subject to opinion.

Tariffs on trade is not the same as corporate income taxes. Personally I am not a fan of "free trade" because it doesn't do anything for the consumer. Free trade doesn't just mean free from protectionism, it means freedom from any type of government oversight, any regulation, and freedom from any taxes. So in the end of "free trade" its the consumer that gets the shaft.
--
Supporters of Obama in 2008: Have you changed?
August 31st, 2011  
muscogeemike
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mmarsh
Raymankilller3

Do you know what defines a Corporation from a Small Business? Its not the number of employees, or the money they make, or its physical size.

Its based the number of owners it has.

You take a company like BECHTEL (largest engineering firm in the world), with 31000 employees and $31 Billion in the bank. Yet because it only has 1 owner (meaning its privately owned not publicly traded) BECHTEL is considered get this...A Small Business.

And here's the rub because BECHTEL is a "small business" it gets all the benefits that government gives out. So when politicans (mainly republicans) talk about "helping small business" (you hear that line a lot) they don't mean helping the mom and pop hardware store. They are really talking about companies like Bechtel.

So the definition what is legally a corporation is subject to opinion.

Tariffs on trade is not the same as corporate income taxes. Personally I am not a fan of "free trade" because it doesn't do anything for the consumer. Free trade doesn't just mean free from protectionism, it means freedom from any type of government oversight, any regulation, and freedom from any taxes. So in the end of "free trade" its the consumer that gets the shaft.
NYC! That explains a lot.
August 31st, 2011  
mmarsh
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by muscogeemike
NYC! That explains a lot.
Meaning? You might dislike what I said, but it is in fact accurate.

Links:

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2...ike-charts.php
http://motherjones.com/mojo/2009/12/...iness-contract
http://www.americanprogress.org/issu...iz_claims.html
August 31st, 2011  
A Can of Man
 
 
Man I did not know that.
Kinda explains the whole "small business" talk. I knew there had to be a catch to it and I guess that was it!
September 1st, 2011  
RayManKiller3
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mmarsh
Raymankilller3

Do you know what defines a Corporation from a Small Business? Its not the number of employees, or the money they make, or its physical size.

Its based the number of owners it has.

You take a company like BECHTEL (largest engineering firm in the world), with 31000 employees and $31 Billion in the bank. Yet because it only has 1 owner (meaning its privately owned not publicly traded) BECHTEL is considered get this...A Small Business.

And here's the rub because BECHTEL is a "small business" it gets all the benefits that government gives out. So when politicans (mainly republicans) talk about "helping small business" (you hear that line a lot) they don't mean helping the mom and pop hardware store. They are really talking about companies like Bechtel.

So the definition what is legally a corporation is subject to opinion.

Tariffs on trade is not the same as corporate income taxes. Personally I am not a fan of "free trade" because it doesn't do anything for the consumer. Free trade doesn't just mean free from protectionism, it means freedom from any type of government oversight, any regulation, and freedom from any taxes. So in the end of "free trade" its the consumer that gets the shaft.
When I thought corporation I did know it meant many owners, but I didn't think of small business in the way you put it. I thought of them as modest, but not as great profit making companies. Thanks, something new I learned. Didn't know a "small business" was capable of making that much and still be considered "small business".


I don't like free trade myself, but mainly because it allows huge companies to take advantage of cheap labor. I am not sure if free trade really creates jobs for the U.S when the free trade agreements are with countries with low minimum wages.

I am not sure, but isn't it the Republic of China's goal to replace the dollar as the international currency in the long term? With the trade deficits we have with them, we sure are going downhill.
September 1st, 2011  
muscogeemike
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mmarsh
No, I don't dispute your facts, not my area of expertise. I just suspect anyone from NYC, especially if they chose to live in France. But thats just me and my opinion doesn't count for much.
September 1st, 2011  
mmarsh
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by muscogeemike
No, I don't dispute your facts, not my area of expertise. I just suspect anyone from NYC, especially if they chose to live in France. But thats just me and my opinion doesn't count for much.
Why? Are you an expert on all New Yorkers living in France? How about we stay on subject and you keep the personal commentary to yourself.

Can of Man

Yup, and Bechtel isnt the only one. PRICEWATERHOUSECOOPERS, The Tribune Company are others.

3% of owners own 50% of all small business income. This is one of the many tricks corporations use to avoid paying corporate taxes.
September 1st, 2011  
George
 
S.B.A(the govt)'s definition of Small Business. Once agin, Corporations don't pay taxes, they're an expence that is passed on to their customers. If you raise business taxes, we just pay more for the product. Heard that Buffett's Berkshire-Hathaway owes back taxes, but if Buffett is really suffering from Sucsessfull White Liberal Guilt Syndrome he can whip out the check book & write the IRS a check for what ever amount he wants. Why should others suffer from his probem?
Are some of you dissapointed Obama didn't reenacted the "choppers off the roof" evacuation of Saigon in Baghdad or Kabul by now?
 


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