Supporters of Obama in 2008: Have you changed? - Page 6




 
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Supporters of Obama in 2008: Have you changed?
 
August 19th, 2011  
namvet
 
 
Supporters of Obama in 2008: Have you changed?
Quote:
Originally Posted by George
I said 40% Dems & Ind. There are a lot of Conservative Dems in many places around outside the Liberal areas. One big reason the Dems regained controll of Congress in '06 was a lot of people were upset with Bush II & the big govt Reps that were with him & voted for Dems who were running in many races to the right of incumbent Reps. People forget that voting for Conservative Dems empowers Libs like Pelosi, Read, Frank & Shumer.
the dems got in by promising to end the war. which they didn't
August 20th, 2011  
George
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by namvet
the dems got in by promising to end the war. which they didn't
That was only part of it. I know a lot of Republicans who were totally frustrated with Bush. We (Including me) expected the govt spending & size to be cut, instead he bloated both. So quite a few either quit the Party & went Ind. or sat out the elections or voted for those Dems who were running to the right of the Rep. incumbents as a protest.
August 20th, 2011  
muscogeemike
 
I’m with George, I was born in CA and was a left coast liberal until Carter broke my heart.

I was republican until this last Bush (although he wasn’t the devil the left and the US Media make him out to be) went against too many Repub. Principles.

I now consider myself to be a right leaning Indy and feel that Obama is one of the worst mistakes the “ignorant” US masses have ever made.
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Supporters of Obama in 2008: Have you changed?
August 22nd, 2011  
mmarsh
 
 
Jon Huntsman is sounding better, he's wowing the crowds with such comments like "Science is not a myth" and "Hanging The Federal Reserve Chairman is not a sound economic plan".

Kudos to Huntsman for sounding like the only Republican Presidential Candidate who isn't a total nutcase or fraud. Shame he is only at 2.2%

Still, lets hope this latest disease of sanity spreads to the rest of the GOP.
August 31st, 2011  
RayManKiller3
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by namvet
the dems got in by promising to end the war. which they didn't
In a technical sense, they are still carrying out their promise on that. When they said "end the war" did you think it would be done overnight? No, it will take years before a drawdown to that magnitude will happen and it will still be accurate of them.

I plan on voting Obama, mainly because most other options are pretty stupid to me. This will be my first presidential vote!!


Because I am independent, I completely disagree with any politician who is so stuck in his political party, that they would disagree with any plan no matter what as long as it was not their party that created it.

Though you guys don't like Obama, the true people to blame for things not progressing is Congress itself. Think about it; we almost defaulted on our debts thanks to blind disagreements!

Also in my opinion Democrats are better handling economic affairs. I do support higher taxes on the rich (on all levels tbh, but the medium to poor classes can not handle any tax increases at this moment). Yes I do think we should increase revenues through taxes. I think most taxes should be implied on things people do not need and are unhealthy (this can have a negative effect to a certain extent if taxed to high). Despite what many believes; small businesses are the ones that employ most of the American population.

Granted a good deal if not most of the big businesses are important as well, bust mainly because they have the most technology oriented things. Such as Intel, GE, GM, etc. Also they are pretty big in the manufactering sector.

I do think we can due better by reducing corperate taxes, but most of the big corporations only go to other countries for selfish max profits. Even if we did lower corporate taxes, there is absolutely no guarantee they will bring the jobs they shipped out, back.

http://economics.about.com/od/smallb...s_business.htm
http://www.sba.gov/advocacy/7495/8420 - source to prove what I said.

I also DO NOT believe United States should be considered a christian nation because if it was, then we clearly go against our constitution. Not sure if the founding fathers realized this contradiction when they wrote the Bill of Rights the way they did. Now that I said that, I couldn't possibly care what religion Obama was whether it was, Scientologist (ROFL if you don't know that one, I suggest looking it up for a good laugh), Christian, Hindu, Budhist, Jewish, or Muslim.


I do believe we should have a nationalized health care; this will take the pressure off of businesses having to have a health care program for their employees. This will also lower taxes.

I however do think Social security should be reformed (since I believe in nationalized health care, we wouldn't need a medicaid or medicare).

Having national healthcare itself can increase employment in this country. National healthcare should only occur once the government find the magic land of proper money spending.

I also believe America really needs to start investing in renewable energies. Without investment, there will be no technological increase in those fields, therefore we will be stuck relying on oil for god knows how long.

I been reading up on this site for awhile despite not posting. I decided to post my opinions here.
August 31st, 2011  
namvet
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RayManKiller3
In a technical sense, they are still carrying out their promise on that. When they said "end the war" did you think it would be done overnight? No, it will take years before a drawdown to that magnitude will happen and it will still be accurate of them.

I plan on voting Obama, mainly because most other options are pretty stupid to me. This will be my first presidential vote!!


Because I am independent, I completely disagree with any politician who is so stuck in his political party, that they would disagree with any plan no matter what as long as it was not their party that created it.

Though you guys don't like Obama, the true people to blame for things not progressing is Congress itself. Think about it; we almost defaulted on our debts thanks to blind disagreements!

Also in my opinion Democrats are better handling economic affairs. I do support higher taxes on the rich (on all levels tbh, but the medium to poor classes can not handle any tax increases at this moment). Yes I do think we should increase revenues through taxes. I think most taxes should be implied on things people do not need and are unhealthy (this can have a negative effect to a certain extent if taxed to high). Despite what many believes; small businesses are the ones that employ most of the American population.

Granted a good deal if not most of the big businesses are important as well, bust mainly because they have the most technology oriented things. Such as Intel, GE, GM, etc. Also they are pretty big in the manufactering sector.

I do think we can due better by reducing corperate taxes, but most of the big corporations only go to other countries for selfish max profits. Even if we did lower corporate taxes, there is absolutely no guarantee they will bring the jobs they shipped out, back.

http://economics.about.com/od/smallb...s_business.htm
http://www.sba.gov/advocacy/7495/8420 - source to prove what I said.

I also DO NOT believe United States should be considered a christian nation because if it was, then we clearly go against our constitution. Not sure if the founding fathers realized this contradiction when they wrote the Bill of Rights the way they did. Now that I said that, I couldn't possibly care what religion Obama was whether it was, Scientologist (ROFL if you don't know that one, I suggest looking it up for a good laugh), Christian, Hindu, Budhist, Jewish, or Muslim.


I do believe we should have a nationalized health care; this will take the pressure off of businesses having to have a health care program for their employees. This will also lower taxes.

I however do think Social security should be reformed (since I believe in nationalized health care, we wouldn't need a medicaid or medicare).

Having national healthcare itself can increase employment in this country. National healthcare should only occur once the government find the magic land of proper money spending.

I also believe America really needs to start investing in renewable energies. Without investment, there will be no technological increase in those fields, therefore we will be stuck relying on oil for god knows how long.

I been reading up on this site for awhile despite not posting. I decided to post my opinions here.
Quote:
This will be my first presidential vote!!
congrads. but your views are more in line with liberals.

Quote:
In a technical sense, they are still carrying out their promise on that. When they said "end the war" did you think it would be done overnight? No, it will take years before a drawdown to that magnitude will happen and it will still be accurate of them.
we're 3 years in and no end in sight for the war in afghan. in fact he's escalating it. in your opinion how long should it take???

Quote:
Also in my opinion Democrats are better handling economic affair
is that why we're 10 trillion in the hole??? democrats don't solve problems. they throw money it.

the voting age should go back to 21. or higher

how obama got elected
August 31st, 2011  
mmarsh
 
 
Raymankiller3

I'm confused. You want to lower corporate taxes but admit that doing so wont accomplish very much (which I agree with). Well then whats the point?

Furthermore corporate taxes in the USA are much lower then they are elsewhere and because of the loopholes they exploit many of them don't pay any tax at all. Example Exxon Mobile in 2009, they are actually given tax rebates ($156 Million in Exxon's case) despite paying no US income tax and their profits in 2009 were $19 Billion.

But whose taxes does the GOP want to raise? The poor.

BTW most corporations move operations overseas because labor costs less not because of taxes. They actually keep their HQ in the USA because if they were to move it abroad they would no longer be considered a US Company (and lose all the loopholes and freebies).

So its actually sicker that what you say. They ship US jobs overseas and pay the employees their peanuts, make huge profits and pay no US corporate income tax, but still collect tax rebates.

I agree that people are deluded to think lowering corporate tax will bring US jobs back. Those jobs are gone. A union job that pays $29 an hour assembling cars can't compete with the same job being done for .50 cents an hour in Indonesia. And US corporations see only green, not red, white, and blue.

The problem is the Democrats. Aside for a few like Bernie Sanders, these spineless wimps did nothing when Obama shifted to the right. Obama is supporting what USED to be GOP positions before the GOP went off the deep end trying to convert America into a Pseudo-Christian theocracy run by oligarchs.

My solution would be to raise taxes and close all loopholes and rebates that they use. Also use the IRS to find monies hiding in foreign bank accounts and criminally prosecute all tax cheats.
August 31st, 2011  
muscogeemike
 
Wouldn't a simple flat tax, which everyone can understand and abide by, and completely eliminating the IRS as it is now structured, be more sensible?
August 31st, 2011  
namvet
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by muscogeemike
Wouldn't a simple flat tax, which everyone can understand and abide by, and completely eliminating the IRS as it is now structured, be more sensible?
I think most Americans would be in favor of exterminating uh eliminating the IRS
August 31st, 2011  
mmarsh
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by muscogeemike
Wouldn't a simple flat tax, which everyone can understand and abide by, and completely eliminating the IRS as it is now structured, be more sensible?
In a nutshell: No. (Besides a flat tax is really meant for personal income tax, not corporate tax). You'd still need the IRS for collection, aid, and enforcement. Otherwise no one is going to pay taxes. This has been argued at length but essentially a flat tax would raise everyones taxes except the very, very, wealthy.

Why?

For a flat to to be viable it would have to 27-29% without bankrupting the government. Thats the calculated figure.

Thanks to the Bush taxcuts, the rich pay 35% taxes -so right off the bat thats a significant drop for them. It was 47% before the Bush Tax cuts. The middle class pays about 16% which means their taxes go up by about 12% and the poor who pay little if any taxes would be taxed into homelessness.

Besides in 2011 we are paying the LOWEST taxes now than in the past 50 years. The idea that we are being "crushed by taxes" is a bit silly. I live in Europe where taxes are considerably more.

And personally I have no problems that the wealthy pay more. The system we have in the U.S gives a lot of help for people/businesses to make tons of money. Asking them to put something back into the federal tin cup is not much to ask in my opinion given all the advantages they get. Remember these are multi-billion dollar people and companies, they aren't exactly in the poorhouse.

Its greed, pure and simple and it will shift the tax burden to the poor and middle class and away from those who truly don't need it.

Coincidently the right wing government in France just last week announced that they were increasing taxes on the very wealthy and nobody raised any objection. So I find the idea that the wealthy in America (a much rich country) to be "suffering" to be quite unbelievable. Indeed even Warren Buffet admitted as such last week when he suggested that the wealthy (like himself) in America need to pay more.

Finally, with a $14 Trillion annual deficit goes anyone really think its a good time to CUT taxes and thus decrease Federal revenue?

Lastly food for thought: Of the 24 countries that have a flat tax: Bosnia, Bulgaria Albania Czech Republic Estonia Georgia Guernsey Hungary Kazakhstan Iraq Jersey Kyrgyzstan Latvia Lithuania Macedonia Mongolia Montenegro Mauritius Romania Russia Serbia Slovakia and Ukraine

Most of them are ex-communist, all of them have small, failed, or stagnant economies. Many of them have huge class rich-poor welfare gaps. Conclusion: this is not the example example we need to follow.
 


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