Sunnis or Shi'ite muslims where and why?
RnderSafe wrote:
*Scratch one's head*
Okey and those sub-sects is like the KKK in christianity if we generalize on a broad front but with even more extreme opinions then our western hood coverd KKK members in 2005?
Sub-sects I found out on this thread is -
Ahmadi = Unkown
Deobandi = Known group related = Talibans/Afghanistan = A small part of the Sunni Muslims - as tribal groups that controlled major areas in Afghanistan before Northern Alliance and Western Coalition forces drived them out of power?
Sufi = Uknown
Salafi = Unknown
Wahhabis = Unknown
sorry for all this questions but I am working so much that I dont manage too look all this up for myselfe. Thanks all once again!
Pogue Mahone wrote:
But this Sistani fellow he seems not to be to friendly towards for an example US but In good connections with the European leaders that seems to idolize this man for something I dont understand? He seems to be a very dangerous and radical man towards our western life-style if I quote my colleagues direct reaction and body language right with comment. :?
I got the feeling that even the larger groups please correct me if I am wrong, feel sympathy for Insurgent and Terrorist attacks in a broader perspective when aggression is made against U.S or Russia for an example. I got an immediate feeling that there is more sympathy´s and moral support from this calmer groups then there is wholehearted condemnation of terrorist acts against civilian targets. For an example Palestine and deceased former leader Yasser Arafat in 2001 when he expressed he´s compassion with all the civilian victims in the US and on the same time there was thousands of Palestinian citizens celebrating on the streets with double delight then after this successful election in the future Palestinian state.
Was that all Hamas members and familys I ask myself but there was more then green bands in those crowds when CNN and other news agencys showed pictures from the middle east. Maby I have got this all wrong when I take this up but in my humble opinion there seems to be more support for foreign attacks then amongs small minoritys that shares Islam as an religion? Maby this was just a biased slanted of our different medias? I dont see many middle eastern country leaders in censorious terms taking an active role to make there ppl do the same as Yasser Arafat did for an example?
The concentration of different Sub-sect`s then in our different nation on a global scale - America/South America/Africa/South East Asia/Africa/Balcans/ Europe/Russia. They seems to be everywhere in Europe if I watch the TV news or read a news paper. Why is theese Sub-sects if not Sunni or Shi'ite Islamic fundamentalists so concentrated in for an example the U.K? Are these groups banned from their own countrys?
Thanks all for your help out here it sure shed`s some light on this questions
Greatful:
Doc.S
:viking:
*Scratch one's head*
Okey and those sub-sects is like the KKK in christianity if we generalize on a broad front but with even more extreme opinions then our western hood coverd KKK members in 2005?
Sub-sects I found out on this thread is -
Ahmadi = Unkown
Deobandi = Known group related = Talibans/Afghanistan = A small part of the Sunni Muslims - as tribal groups that controlled major areas in Afghanistan before Northern Alliance and Western Coalition forces drived them out of power?
Sufi = Uknown
Salafi = Unknown
Wahhabis = Unknown
sorry for all this questions but I am working so much that I dont manage too look all this up for myselfe. Thanks all once again!
Pogue Mahone wrote:
But this Sistani fellow he seems not to be to friendly towards for an example US but In good connections with the European leaders that seems to idolize this man for something I dont understand? He seems to be a very dangerous and radical man towards our western life-style if I quote my colleagues direct reaction and body language right with comment. :?
I got the feeling that even the larger groups please correct me if I am wrong, feel sympathy for Insurgent and Terrorist attacks in a broader perspective when aggression is made against U.S or Russia for an example. I got an immediate feeling that there is more sympathy´s and moral support from this calmer groups then there is wholehearted condemnation of terrorist acts against civilian targets. For an example Palestine and deceased former leader Yasser Arafat in 2001 when he expressed he´s compassion with all the civilian victims in the US and on the same time there was thousands of Palestinian citizens celebrating on the streets with double delight then after this successful election in the future Palestinian state.
Was that all Hamas members and familys I ask myself but there was more then green bands in those crowds when CNN and other news agencys showed pictures from the middle east. Maby I have got this all wrong when I take this up but in my humble opinion there seems to be more support for foreign attacks then amongs small minoritys that shares Islam as an religion? Maby this was just a biased slanted of our different medias? I dont see many middle eastern country leaders in censorious terms taking an active role to make there ppl do the same as Yasser Arafat did for an example?
The concentration of different Sub-sect`s then in our different nation on a global scale - America/South America/Africa/South East Asia/Africa/Balcans/ Europe/Russia. They seems to be everywhere in Europe if I watch the TV news or read a news paper. Why is theese Sub-sects if not Sunni or Shi'ite Islamic fundamentalists so concentrated in for an example the U.K? Are these groups banned from their own countrys?
Thanks all for your help out here it sure shed`s some light on this questions
Greatful:
Doc.S
:viking:
SwordFish_13
Active member
Hi,
Here are the List of Major Sects In Islam ..............these Smaller Sects are Genrally region Specific .......
various People in varios Regions Intrepreted Islam their Way so these Smaller Regional Sects emereged who follow they Leaders teaching till date.............and these sects too are generally named After the Founder..............these names you see are mostly names of their Founders.
Barelvi and Deobandi are the Sub sects of Hanafi which is in turn a Sub Sect of Sunnis .
Barelvi Hanafis consider Deobandis to be kaafir ( a Idiot ) ............and Deobandies Consider them grave Worshipping ignorants.............the Hatered Among them is Quite Visible.
Deobandi are one of the Most Dangerous because of their one Universal Islamic Interest Theory ..................The Deobandi belive Muslim's first loyalty is to his religion and not the Country ............they have a sacred right and obligation to go to any country to wage jihad to protect the Muslims of that country..
This Feeling of Universal Muslim Brotherhood is also prevelent in other Sects but is Strongest in Devbondies.
Saudi Arabia has Strich regim dictated by Hanbali Muslim faith .............all other Muslim faiths are Somewhat banned in Saudi Arabia.
The Maleki are found mostly in central and North Africa and Egypt. Following the tradition of Imam Malik...............and too Follow the Common Universal Muslim utility.............the idea of the common good.
Twelver are mostly found in Iran and Iraq .
Sufi in my view are the More Pesful type of the bunch ...............they are kind of singing and Dancing Muslims ...............They Dance to achive the Higher being.................Some of them are Good Singers ................Sufies are Inturn Divided Into Four major Sects
This Sub Sect List is Very Long if you Starting to Break these Subsects into Further Smaller Sub sects
Peace
-=SF-13=-
Here are the List of Major Sects In Islam ..............these Smaller Sects are Genrally region Specific .......
Code:
- Sunni
o Hanafi
+ Barelvi
+ Deobandi
o Hanbali
+ Wahhabi
o Maliki
o Shafii
- Shiia
o Twelver - Ithna-Ashari
+ Usuli
+ Akhbari
+ Shayki
o Sevener - Ismaili
+ Alawi
+ Bohra
+ Druze
+ Khoja
o Fiver - Zaydi
o Kharijite / Ibadite
- Ahmadi
o Qadiani
o Lahorite
- Sufi
-Salafivarious People in varios Regions Intrepreted Islam their Way so these Smaller Regional Sects emereged who follow they Leaders teaching till date.............and these sects too are generally named After the Founder..............these names you see are mostly names of their Founders.
Barelvi and Deobandi are the Sub sects of Hanafi which is in turn a Sub Sect of Sunnis .
Barelvi Hanafis consider Deobandis to be kaafir ( a Idiot
) ............and Deobandies Consider them grave Worshipping ignorants.............the Hatered Among them is Quite Visible.Deobandi are one of the Most Dangerous because of their one Universal Islamic Interest Theory ..................The Deobandi belive Muslim's first loyalty is to his religion and not the Country ............they have a sacred right and obligation to go to any country to wage jihad to protect the Muslims of that country..
This Feeling of Universal Muslim Brotherhood is also prevelent in other Sects but is Strongest in Devbondies.
Saudi Arabia has Strich regim dictated by Hanbali Muslim faith .............all other Muslim faiths are Somewhat banned in Saudi Arabia.
The Maleki are found mostly in central and North Africa and Egypt. Following the tradition of Imam Malik...............and too Follow the Common Universal Muslim utility.............the idea of the common good.
Twelver are mostly found in Iran and Iraq .
Sufi in my view are the More Pesful type of the bunch ...............they are kind of singing and Dancing Muslims ...............They Dance to achive the Higher being.................Some of them are Good Singers ................Sufies are Inturn Divided Into Four major Sects
This Sub Sect List is Very Long if you Starting to Break these Subsects into Further Smaller Sub sects
Peace
-=SF-13=-
Italian Guy
Milforum Hitman
Charge_7 said:
Sorry to interfere, but while it ain't true that most (just about= most of) of Muslims are not terrorists, it is certainly correct to say that most terrorists in the world are Muslims.
Charge 7
Master Gunner
Back that statement up with concrete figures. Saying it doesn't make it so. Also terrorist is a very broad catagory. There are many ways of interpreting the word. KKK people are terrorists for example. Plenty of those. The splinter groups of the IRA are terrorists. Quite enough of those. I could go on and on, but I suspect those of you who think otherwise will do that yourselves so. I'll bow out of this "discusion" if that's what you want to call it. It's just too much intolerance to me.
Italian Guy
Milforum Hitman
Charge_7 said:
Well, http://www.asharqalawsat.com/view/ said that. Influential Saudi newspaper.
Friday, September 10, 2004
All the Terrorists Are Muslims
"The Painful Truth Is That All the Terrorists Are Muslims"
By Abd-al-Rahman al-Rashid, former Chief Editor
Asharq Al-Awsat
Saturday, September 4, 2004
(Translated by the FBIS)
Certainly, not all Muslims are terrorists but we say with deep regret that the majority of the world's terrorists are Muslims. The kidnappers of the school children in Ossetia are Muslims. The kidnappers and killers of the Nepalese cooks and workers are also Muslims. Those who are raping and killing in Darfur are Muslims and their victims are Muslims too. Those who bombed the civilian compounds in Riyadh and Al-Khubar were Muslims. Those who kidnapped the French journalists are Muslims. The two women who blew up two planes before one week were also Muslims.
Bin Ladin and Al-Huthi are Muslims. Most of those who carried out suicidal operations against buses, schools, houses, and buildings all over the world during the past 10 years were Muslims too.
What a bad record! Does it not tell us something about our society, our culture, and us?
These images are harsh, shameful, and humiliating for us when we collect them and put them in one album. But instead of denying and justifying them, we have to admit first of all that they are true and not embellish articles and make speeches claiming we are innocent. It will become easier for us to treat ourselves once we have acknowledged this disease. Self-treatment starts with the acknowledgment and then we have to chase our terrorist sons because they are the natural outcome of a malformed culture. Listen to what the television shaykh Yusuf al-Qaradawi had said. He issued a fatwa (religious legal ruling) sanctioning the killing of American civilians in Iraq. Imagine a cleric urging the killing of civilians, a decrepit shaykh inciting young children to kill civilians when he has two daughters studying in the infidel United Kingdom under British protection. How can a father like him face the mother of Berg whose son was slaughtered because he came to Iraq to work on engineering projects? How can we believe him when he tells us that Islam is the religion of mercy and tolerance and then turns it into a religion of blood? Before this era of extremists, we considered the leftists and pan-Arabists the source of corruption because of their adoption of the principle of violence and the easy way with which they killed. The mosque was the safe haven and the clerics were the advocates of peace and their sermons revolved around good morals.
Islam is wronged because of the neo-Muslims. It is clear in its texts that bans the cutting of trees to cause damage, calls killing the worst of all crimes, condemns the one who treads even on an insect, and rewards the one who quenches the thirst of a cat. This is the Islam that we knew before the repudiationist groups and their tools appeared, groups, curricula and teachers infested with the ideas of the political groups that corrupted their religion and minds.
We are certainly not honored to be related to those who hold up students in a school, those who kidnap journalists, those who kill civilians, those who bomb buses whatever pains the avengers are suffering from. These are the ones who have distorted and harmed Islam.
We cannot clear our reputation until after we admit the clear and glaring fact which says that Muslims have carried out most of the terrorist actions in the world today. We must understand that we cannot reform our youths who are carrying out these atrocious crimes until we have treated the minds of our shaykhs who have turned into revolutionaries at the pulpits and are sending the sons of other people to wars while sending their children to European and American schools.
(Description of Source: London Al-Sharq al-Awsat in Arabic -- Influential Saudi-owned London daily providing independent coverage of Arab and international issues; editorials reflect official Saudi views on foreign policy)
Anya1982
Banned
why???
Why catarogise (sorry for spelling) a religon? not all muslims are terroists, if you say that then its like saying prod's are terroists........etc. just because there are a few muslim terroist groups about don't make most terroist gropus muslims.....what about RIRA/PIRA/IRA.............round long before alot....................
These muslims chose to interpret their bible thing diff to what it says like johova's, mormons, prod's, greek/russian authadox...........list can go on.
I don't see why people have to catarogise these people
Charge_7 said:
Why catarogise (sorry for spelling) a religon? not all muslims are terroists, if you say that then its like saying prod's are terroists........etc. just because there are a few muslim terroist groups about don't make most terroist gropus muslims.....what about RIRA/PIRA/IRA.............round long before alot....................
These muslims chose to interpret their bible thing diff to what it says like johova's, mormons, prod's, greek/russian authadox...........list can go on.
I don't see why people have to catarogise these people
I am stunned! All this knowledge will do good on my working colleagues as I read over here some say slander others say to much intolerance and catigorisation of people. :lol: I am grateful for all your opinions and help out here. But I dont think you would stand a day on the same work place as I am working at for the moment. :lol: :lol: It is truly sad to acknowledge that ppl around me at work really, really and then I mean REALLY catarogise ppl and slander togheter with intolerance + 1000 + points.
But now with all help from all you bright ppl I got some ammunition to face these "Rednecks" around the coffé table where the generall opinion is that someone should take B-52s and bomb the hell out of Kaba and conquer all oil fields in the middle eastern countrys because Islam, and if you are a Muslim you should be shoot on spot. I have changed alot of misunderstandings on work thanks to you guys/girl.
I have made these guys at my work understand that there are a heck a lot of different sub-divisions and that theese ppl all together are no evil clan that will kill everything that is white and walk on two legs and looks like a christian. :lol: This may look all togheter crazy but that is how my reality looks like every singel day from 05.45 to 16.00. I am very grateful for all help out here and with this information and FACTS make things more easy to explain for ppl around work all togheter. To answer ms Anya1982 believe me this is why it is good to have facts and help from ppl like you and Italian Guy and most of all my favourit sub-division man on this front. SwordFish_13 thanks alot sir, your help is gunpowder.
More media and other forms of ppl that reach out to other ppl should make more ppl understand this the same way you have helped me out. And Charge_7 I respect you man and thanks for your help too. You see all - Next week we will have an Iraqi guy at work that will will have me as an overseer for the next weeks to come and, all we got to know from upstairs was that this man is a Muslim and an Iraqi, and he doesn`t know any swedish, and very little english. Knowledge is Power and I am gratetful for all your help out here - no one forgotten regardless of attitude and opinion. I love democracy! Hey and if anyone knows anything about where and why you can answer that question if you have the time to - feel free to continue and fill in information on this question too.
Cheerful:
Doc.S
:viking:
But now with all help from all you bright ppl I got some ammunition to face these "Rednecks" around the coffé table where the generall opinion is that someone should take B-52s and bomb the hell out of Kaba and conquer all oil fields in the middle eastern countrys because Islam, and if you are a Muslim you should be shoot on spot. I have changed alot of misunderstandings on work thanks to you guys/girl.
I have made these guys at my work understand that there are a heck a lot of different sub-divisions and that theese ppl all together are no evil clan that will kill everything that is white and walk on two legs and looks like a christian. :lol: This may look all togheter crazy but that is how my reality looks like every singel day from 05.45 to 16.00. I am very grateful for all help out here and with this information and FACTS make things more easy to explain for ppl around work all togheter. To answer ms Anya1982 believe me this is why it is good to have facts and help from ppl like you and Italian Guy and most of all my favourit sub-division man on this front. SwordFish_13 thanks alot sir, your help is gunpowder.
More media and other forms of ppl that reach out to other ppl should make more ppl understand this the same way you have helped me out. And Charge_7 I respect you man and thanks for your help too. You see all - Next week we will have an Iraqi guy at work that will will have me as an overseer for the next weeks to come and, all we got to know from upstairs was that this man is a Muslim and an Iraqi, and he doesn`t know any swedish, and very little english. Knowledge is Power and I am gratetful for all your help out here - no one forgotten regardless of attitude and opinion. I love democracy! Hey and if anyone knows anything about where and why you can answer that question if you have the time to - feel free to continue and fill in information on this question too.
Cheerful:
Doc.S
:viking:
Italian Guy
Milforum Hitman
You're welcome, man. Mutually helpful, that's how it works, in here 8)
Pogue Mahone
Active member
Charge_7 said:
Its a pretty easy thing to understand if you just try
I have clearly said that while most Muslims are not Terrorists - most Terrorists are certainly Muslim
Clouding the issue with the KKK or Basque's or whomever else you want to bring in won't change this fact which is, as has been pointed out, even been accepted by reasonable muslim sources
It is only the reflexive "I can't say anything bad about a religion" sorts of the West who continue to be blind to the issue
The question that springs from this is what is it in Islam that leads to such a dispoportionate number of terrorist groups, members and sympathisers
If it was poverty we would see large African and SE asian terrorist groups, or oppression surely the people of Tibet would be on the list
So yes - those were my words - I stand by them - you can't refute them no matter how much you are offended by this reality
If you choose not to see something, don't expect everyone else to agree with you just to be polite
Maybe you can clarify what you mean though - when you say you are open to criticising Islam - what do you mean?
Do you mean criticising some Muslims for mis-interpeting the Koran and acting in ways ( eg: 9-11, stoning women ) that are un-islamic?
Or do you mean that Islam inspires these bad things in its actual form, that the evil doers ( as President Bush calls them ) are following Islam in a way just as legitimate as your friend
Because there is a vast difference between the two
Pogue Mahone
Active member
Pogue Mahone wrote:
But this Sistani fellow he seems not to be to friendly towards for an example US but In good connections with the European leaders that seems to idolize this man for something I dont understand? He seems to be a very dangerous and radical man towards our western life-style if I quote my colleagues direct reaction and body language right with comment. :?
I don't reccomend him as the Pope Islam needs - only point out that he would be an example of a "Pope" in Islam The Sunni's have a Pope in every Mosque - and any one of them can issue Fatwas and call for death to the Jews with equal authority
I got the feeling that even the larger groups please correct me if I am wrong, feel sympathy for Insurgent and Terrorist attacks in a broader perspective when aggression is made against U.S or Russia for an example. I got an immediate feeling that there is more sympathy´s and moral support from this calmer groups then there is wholehearted condemnation of terrorist acts against civilian targets. For an example Palestine and deceased former leader Yasser Arafat in 2001 when he expressed he´s compassion with all the civilian victims in the US and on the same time there was thousands of Palestinian citizens celebrating on the streets with double delight then after this successful election in the future Palestinian state.
You are 100% correct - and this is why so much of this "but its a small minority who support Hamas, OBL, etc" is so much :cen:
Was that all Hamas members and familys I ask myself but there was more then green bands in those crowds when CNN and other news agencys showed pictures from the middle east. Maby I have got this all wrong when I take this up but in my humble opinion there seems to be more support for foreign attacks then amongs small minoritys that shares Islam as an religion? Maby this was just a biased slanted of our different medias? I dont see many middle eastern country leaders in censorious terms taking an active role to make there ppl do the same as Yasser Arafat did for an example?
In truth, our media hides much of the reality of ME hatred toward the West and Israel from us. It often presents the Pali's as unique victims of history. If your media showed a balance, sympathy for the Pali's would drop significantly
But this Sistani fellow he seems not to be to friendly towards for an example US but In good connections with the European leaders that seems to idolize this man for something I dont understand? He seems to be a very dangerous and radical man towards our western life-style if I quote my colleagues direct reaction and body language right with comment. :?
I don't reccomend him as the Pope Islam needs - only point out that he would be an example of a "Pope" in Islam The Sunni's have a Pope in every Mosque - and any one of them can issue Fatwas and call for death to the Jews with equal authority
I got the feeling that even the larger groups please correct me if I am wrong, feel sympathy for Insurgent and Terrorist attacks in a broader perspective when aggression is made against U.S or Russia for an example. I got an immediate feeling that there is more sympathy´s and moral support from this calmer groups then there is wholehearted condemnation of terrorist acts against civilian targets. For an example Palestine and deceased former leader Yasser Arafat in 2001 when he expressed he´s compassion with all the civilian victims in the US and on the same time there was thousands of Palestinian citizens celebrating on the streets with double delight then after this successful election in the future Palestinian state.
You are 100% correct - and this is why so much of this "but its a small minority who support Hamas, OBL, etc" is so much :cen:
Was that all Hamas members and familys I ask myself but there was more then green bands in those crowds when CNN and other news agencys showed pictures from the middle east. Maby I have got this all wrong when I take this up but in my humble opinion there seems to be more support for foreign attacks then amongs small minoritys that shares Islam as an religion? Maby this was just a biased slanted of our different medias? I dont see many middle eastern country leaders in censorious terms taking an active role to make there ppl do the same as Yasser Arafat did for an example?
In truth, our media hides much of the reality of ME hatred toward the West and Israel from us. It often presents the Pali's as unique victims of history. If your media showed a balance, sympathy for the Pali's would drop significantly
Anya1982
Banned
no one listens
Muslims and islams still stone women out in arabic countries such as bahrien/kuwait etc..........for any tiny sin. But they also hurt themselves.
Once a year people will line the streets and watch others punish themsleves with rocks etc on rope.........its a bloody thing they do and sometimes they kill themselves.
Muslims/islams have a different way to life than others...............but to come out right and say most terroists are muslims is crap. You could get sued for that sorta thing.
9/11 and such acts are done by certain muslim as they interpret their bible thingy.........it doesn't say by dying for your land your become a hero esp if you hi jack and kill innocent people.
Dunno if this is any help but i found it:
The Qur'an is not wanting in reminders of God's earthly retribution. The Shi'a literature, most of which originated after the deaths of 'Ali and his two sons, did not turn to this aspect of divine justice. This reflects that with the weakening of the political aspirations of the Shi'a they cautiously stressed a remote rather than an immanent justice of God. Any vigorous pursuance of the idea of God's immanent justice would have been suppressed by the Umayyads and the 'Abbasids. In fact too loud a drumming on the idea of the final judgement of the Judgement Day would have caused the indignation of those in power by suggesting that they were the damned ones.
The Shi'a, therefore, did not offer any drastic opposition to the excessively transcendental theology formulated under the sponsorship of the Umayyad and 'Abbasid caliphates. In Al-Bab al-Hadi 'Ashar1 of Hasan b. Yusuf b. 'Ali b. al Mutahhar al-Hilli (648/1250-726/1326), sections II and III on the Positive (Thubutiyya) and Privative (Salbiyya) attributes of God take precedence over the section on Allah's justice (Section IV). The Positive attributes enumerated in Section II are these: Allah is Qadir (Powerful), Mukhtar (Free). 'Alim (Knowing), Hayy (Living), Murid (Willer), Mudrik (perceiver), Qadim (Prior), Mutakallim (Speaker) and Sadiq (Veracious).
The Salbiyya qualities of God enumerated in Section III are these: Allah is not compounded (Murakkab); He is neither body (jism) nor accident ('Arad); He is not in a place (makan); He is not subject to pleasure or pain as He has no physical constitution (mizaj); He does not unite with other than Himself; He is not a locus (mahall) for originated things which would imply His being acted upon (infi'al); His ocular vision is not possible; He cannot have a partner (sharik); ideas (ma'ani) and states (ahwal) are denied to the Most High; He is not in need.
We see that in all these descriptions the Shi'a theology is not different fundamentally from Ash'ari theology which later set lastingly the pattern for the whole of Muslim theology. Perhaps the only significant difference in the above list of descriptions is reflected by the inclusion of the attributes Sadiq (Veracious) and Mutakallim (Speaker), the former being reminiscent of the Shi'a trust in God's promise of final redress, and the latter reminiscent of the following tradition attributed to Imam Ja'far al-Sadiq:
The Qur'an is neither creator nor created; it is the word of the Creator.
The Shi'a doctrine of the temporal createdness of the Qur'an, like their doctrine of divine justice, did not secure very zealous upholders, nor were they alone in stressing it, for it was as a Mu'tazili doctrine that it asserted itself during Mutawakkil's reign.
The primary implement of Shi'a theology is allegorical exegesis, which is based on traditions relative to Qur'anic passages and attributed to 'Ali. These are great in number. Here we are not able to present an analysis of that allegorical method. We shall only refer to a few verses from the Qur'an which the Shi'a cite to glorify 'Ali or Ahl al-Bait.
....................................................................
I know generalisation is the most tainted thing at the moment but outta respect people shouldn't point a finger at a whole population just because a few people have done bad
Muslims and islams still stone women out in arabic countries such as bahrien/kuwait etc..........for any tiny sin. But they also hurt themselves.
Once a year people will line the streets and watch others punish themsleves with rocks etc on rope.........its a bloody thing they do and sometimes they kill themselves.
Muslims/islams have a different way to life than others...............but to come out right and say most terroists are muslims is crap. You could get sued for that sorta thing.
9/11 and such acts are done by certain muslim as they interpret their bible thingy.........it doesn't say by dying for your land your become a hero esp if you hi jack and kill innocent people.
Dunno if this is any help but i found it:
The Qur'an is not wanting in reminders of God's earthly retribution. The Shi'a literature, most of which originated after the deaths of 'Ali and his two sons, did not turn to this aspect of divine justice. This reflects that with the weakening of the political aspirations of the Shi'a they cautiously stressed a remote rather than an immanent justice of God. Any vigorous pursuance of the idea of God's immanent justice would have been suppressed by the Umayyads and the 'Abbasids. In fact too loud a drumming on the idea of the final judgement of the Judgement Day would have caused the indignation of those in power by suggesting that they were the damned ones.
The Shi'a, therefore, did not offer any drastic opposition to the excessively transcendental theology formulated under the sponsorship of the Umayyad and 'Abbasid caliphates. In Al-Bab al-Hadi 'Ashar1 of Hasan b. Yusuf b. 'Ali b. al Mutahhar al-Hilli (648/1250-726/1326), sections II and III on the Positive (Thubutiyya) and Privative (Salbiyya) attributes of God take precedence over the section on Allah's justice (Section IV). The Positive attributes enumerated in Section II are these: Allah is Qadir (Powerful), Mukhtar (Free). 'Alim (Knowing), Hayy (Living), Murid (Willer), Mudrik (perceiver), Qadim (Prior), Mutakallim (Speaker) and Sadiq (Veracious).
The Salbiyya qualities of God enumerated in Section III are these: Allah is not compounded (Murakkab); He is neither body (jism) nor accident ('Arad); He is not in a place (makan); He is not subject to pleasure or pain as He has no physical constitution (mizaj); He does not unite with other than Himself; He is not a locus (mahall) for originated things which would imply His being acted upon (infi'al); His ocular vision is not possible; He cannot have a partner (sharik); ideas (ma'ani) and states (ahwal) are denied to the Most High; He is not in need.
We see that in all these descriptions the Shi'a theology is not different fundamentally from Ash'ari theology which later set lastingly the pattern for the whole of Muslim theology. Perhaps the only significant difference in the above list of descriptions is reflected by the inclusion of the attributes Sadiq (Veracious) and Mutakallim (Speaker), the former being reminiscent of the Shi'a trust in God's promise of final redress, and the latter reminiscent of the following tradition attributed to Imam Ja'far al-Sadiq:
The Qur'an is neither creator nor created; it is the word of the Creator.
The Shi'a doctrine of the temporal createdness of the Qur'an, like their doctrine of divine justice, did not secure very zealous upholders, nor were they alone in stressing it, for it was as a Mu'tazili doctrine that it asserted itself during Mutawakkil's reign.
The primary implement of Shi'a theology is allegorical exegesis, which is based on traditions relative to Qur'anic passages and attributed to 'Ali. These are great in number. Here we are not able to present an analysis of that allegorical method. We shall only refer to a few verses from the Qur'an which the Shi'a cite to glorify 'Ali or Ahl al-Bait.
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I know generalisation is the most tainted thing at the moment but outta respect people shouldn't point a finger at a whole population just because a few people have done bad
Pogue Mahone
Active member
Re: no one listens
In the first sentence from your post above you have hit upon the essence of the issue - since the Koran is the literal word of God - it tends to be obeyed - literally
It is not subject to interpetation in the way that the Bible is for example
On the second point - its not a matter of pointing a finger at a whole population - the question is about the ideology of Islam
That a billion people subscribe to this ideology should not make it immune from critical study
If you begin with a very simple question - is OBL following true Islam - it will lead you to some disturbing conclusions
Because really OBL is following true Islam - at least as true as that of any other Imam - and his understanding of Islam is supported by more than a small minority of muslims
I agree that it is wrong to condemn an entire group for the actions of some - but I will never agree that it is wrong to condemn any ideology simply because too many people agree with it.
Anya1982 said:
In the first sentence from your post above you have hit upon the essence of the issue - since the Koran is the literal word of God - it tends to be obeyed - literally
It is not subject to interpetation in the way that the Bible is for example
On the second point - its not a matter of pointing a finger at a whole population - the question is about the ideology of Islam
That a billion people subscribe to this ideology should not make it immune from critical study
If you begin with a very simple question - is OBL following true Islam - it will lead you to some disturbing conclusions
Because really OBL is following true Islam - at least as true as that of any other Imam - and his understanding of Islam is supported by more than a small minority of muslims
I agree that it is wrong to condemn an entire group for the actions of some - but I will never agree that it is wrong to condemn any ideology simply because too many people agree with it.