Sunnis or Shi'ite muslims where and why? - Page 3




 
--
Boots
 
January 11th, 2005  
Charge 7
 
 
"Just about all terrorists are Muslims"

Your words. I won't retract a thing.

Look who's not reading who. I said it twice before and I'll say it again. I never once said Islam wasn't open to criticism. I also said even my friend criticises parts of it.
January 12th, 2005  
Doc.S
 
RnderSafe wrote:
Quote:
You're forgetting the many other sects of Islam, Sunni and Shi'ite are not the the only two, however the most popular. It's the sub-sects, I've found, to have the most violent teachines. These have largely branched off on their own and are growing
*Scratch one's head*

Okey and those sub-sects is like the KKK in christianity if we generalize on a broad front but with even more extreme opinions then our western hood coverd KKK members in 2005?

Sub-sects I found out on this thread is -

Ahmadi = Unkown
Deobandi = Known group related = Talibans/Afghanistan = A small part of the Sunni Muslims - as tribal groups that controlled major areas in Afghanistan before Northern Alliance and Western Coalition forces drived them out of power?
Sufi = Uknown
Salafi = Unknown
Wahhabis = Unknown

sorry for all this questions but I am working so much that I dont manage too look all this up for myselfe. Thanks all once again!

Pogue Mahone wrote:
Quote:
Pope in Islam is the Shiite version, Sistani in Iran for example
But this Sistani fellow he seems not to be to friendly towards for an example US but In good connections with the European leaders that seems to idolize this man for something I dont understand? He seems to be a very dangerous and radical man towards our western life-style if I quote my colleagues direct reaction and body language right with comment.

I got the feeling that even the larger groups please correct me if I am wrong, feel sympathy for Insurgent and Terrorist attacks in a broader perspective when aggression is made against U.S or Russia for an example. I got an immediate feeling that there is more sympathy´s and moral support from this calmer groups then there is wholehearted condemnation of terrorist acts against civilian targets. For an example Palestine and deceased former leader Yasser Arafat in 2001 when he expressed he´s compassion with all the civilian victims in the US and on the same time there was thousands of Palestinian citizens celebrating on the streets with double delight then after this successful election in the future Palestinian state.

Was that all Hamas members and familys I ask myself but there was more then green bands in those crowds when CNN and other news agencys showed pictures from the middle east. Maby I have got this all wrong when I take this up but in my humble opinion there seems to be more support for foreign attacks then amongs small minoritys that shares Islam as an religion? Maby this was just a biased slanted of our different medias? I dont see many middle eastern country leaders in censorious terms taking an active role to make there ppl do the same as Yasser Arafat did for an example?

The concentration of different Sub-sect`s then in our different nation on a global scale - America/South America/Africa/South East Asia/Africa/Balcans/ Europe/Russia. They seems to be everywhere in Europe if I watch the TV news or read a news paper. Why is theese Sub-sects if not Sunni or Shi'ite Islamic fundamentalists so concentrated in for an example the U.K? Are these groups banned from their own countrys?

Thanks all for your help out here it sure shed`s some light on this questions

Greatful:
Doc.S
January 12th, 2005  
SwordFish_13
 
 
Hi,

Quote:
*Scratch one's head*

Okey and those sub-sects is like the KKK in christianity if we generalize on a broad front but with even more extreme opinions then our western hood coverd KKK members in 2005?

Sub-sects I found out on this thread is -
Here are the List of Major Sects In Islam ..............these Smaller Sects are Genrally region Specific .......

Code:
    - Sunni
          o Hanafi
                + Barelvi
                + Deobandi 

          o Hanbali
                + Wahhabi 

          o Maliki
          o Shafii 

    - Shiia
          o Twelver - Ithna-Ashari
                + Usuli
                + Akhbari
                + Shayki

          o Sevener - Ismaili
                + Alawi
                + Bohra
                + Druze
                + Khoja 

          o Fiver - Zaydi
          o Kharijite / Ibadite 

    - Ahmadi
          o Qadiani
          o Lahorite 


   - Sufi

    -Salafi
various People in varios Regions Intrepreted Islam their Way so these Smaller Regional Sects emereged who follow they Leaders teaching till date.............and these sects too are generally named After the Founder..............these names you see are mostly names of their Founders.

Barelvi and Deobandi are the Sub sects of Hanafi which is in turn a Sub Sect of Sunnis .

Barelvi Hanafis consider Deobandis to be kaafir ( a Idiot ) ............and Deobandies Consider them grave Worshipping ignorants.............the Hatered Among them is Quite Visible.

Deobandi are one of the Most Dangerous because of their one Universal Islamic Interest Theory ..................The Deobandi belive Muslim's first loyalty is to his religion and not the Country ............they have a sacred right and obligation to go to any country to wage jihad to protect the Muslims of that country..

This Feeling of Universal Muslim Brotherhood is also prevelent in other Sects but is Strongest in Devbondies.

Saudi Arabia has Strich regim dictated by Hanbali Muslim faith .............all other Muslim faiths are Somewhat banned in Saudi Arabia.

The Maleki are found mostly in central and North Africa and Egypt. Following the tradition of Imam Malik...............and too Follow the Common Universal Muslim utility.............the idea of the common good.

Twelver are mostly found in Iran and Iraq .

Sufi in my view are the More Pesful type of the bunch ...............they are kind of singing and Dancing Muslims ...............They Dance to achive the Higher being.................Some of them are Good Singers ................Sufies are Inturn Divided Into Four major Sects

This Sub Sect List is Very Long if you Starting to Break these Subsects into Further Smaller Sub sects

Peace
-=SF-13=-
--
Boots
January 12th, 2005  
Italian Guy
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charge_7
"Just about all terrorists are Muslims"

Your words. I won't retract a thing.

Look who's not reading who. I said it twice before and I'll say it again. I never once said Islam wasn't open to criticism. I also said even my friend criticises parts of it.

Sorry to interfere, but while it ain't true that most (just about= most of) of Muslims are not terrorists, it is certainly correct to say that most terrorists in the world are Muslims.
January 12th, 2005  
Charge 7
 
 
Back that statement up with concrete figures. Saying it doesn't make it so. Also terrorist is a very broad catagory. There are many ways of interpreting the word. KKK people are terrorists for example. Plenty of those. The splinter groups of the IRA are terrorists. Quite enough of those. I could go on and on, but I suspect those of you who think otherwise will do that yourselves so. I'll bow out of this "discusion" if that's what you want to call it. It's just too much intolerance to me.
January 12th, 2005  
Italian Guy
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charge_7
Back that statement up with concrete figures. Saying it doesn't make it so. Also terrorist is a very broad catagory. There are many ways of interpreting the word. KKK people are terrorists for example. Plenty of those. The splinter groups of the IRA are terrorists. Quite enough of those. I could go on and on, but I suspect those of you who think otherwise will do that yourselves so. I'll bow out of this "discusion" if that's what you want to call it. It's just too much intolerance to me.
Well, http://www.asharqalawsat.com/view/ said that. Influential Saudi newspaper.


Friday, September 10, 2004
All the Terrorists Are Muslims
"The Painful Truth Is That All the Terrorists Are Muslims"
By Abd-al-Rahman al-Rashid, former Chief Editor
Asharq Al-Awsat
Saturday, September 4, 2004

(Translated by the FBIS)


Certainly, not all Muslims are terrorists but we say with deep regret that the majority of the world's terrorists are Muslims. The kidnappers of the school children in Ossetia are Muslims. The kidnappers and killers of the Nepalese cooks and workers are also Muslims. Those who are raping and killing in Darfur are Muslims and their victims are Muslims too. Those who bombed the civilian compounds in Riyadh and Al-Khubar were Muslims. Those who kidnapped the French journalists are Muslims. The two women who blew up two planes before one week were also Muslims.

Bin Ladin and Al-Huthi are Muslims. Most of those who carried out suicidal operations against buses, schools, houses, and buildings all over the world during the past 10 years were Muslims too.

What a bad record! Does it not tell us something about our society, our culture, and us?

These images are harsh, shameful, and humiliating for us when we collect them and put them in one album. But instead of denying and justifying them, we have to admit first of all that they are true and not embellish articles and make speeches claiming we are innocent. It will become easier for us to treat ourselves once we have acknowledged this disease. Self-treatment starts with the acknowledgment and then we have to chase our terrorist sons because they are the natural outcome of a malformed culture. Listen to what the television shaykh Yusuf al-Qaradawi had said. He issued a fatwa (religious legal ruling) sanctioning the killing of American civilians in Iraq. Imagine a cleric urging the killing of civilians, a decrepit shaykh inciting young children to kill civilians when he has two daughters studying in the infidel United Kingdom under British protection. How can a father like him face the mother of Berg whose son was slaughtered because he came to Iraq to work on engineering projects? How can we believe him when he tells us that Islam is the religion of mercy and tolerance and then turns it into a religion of blood? Before this era of extremists, we considered the leftists and pan-Arabists the source of corruption because of their adoption of the principle of violence and the easy way with which they killed. The mosque was the safe haven and the clerics were the advocates of peace and their sermons revolved around good morals.

Islam is wronged because of the neo-Muslims. It is clear in its texts that bans the cutting of trees to cause damage, calls killing the worst of all crimes, condemns the one who treads even on an insect, and rewards the one who quenches the thirst of a cat. This is the Islam that we knew before the repudiationist groups and their tools appeared, groups, curricula and teachers infested with the ideas of the political groups that corrupted their religion and minds.

We are certainly not honored to be related to those who hold up students in a school, those who kidnap journalists, those who kill civilians, those who bomb buses whatever pains the avengers are suffering from. These are the ones who have distorted and harmed Islam.

We cannot clear our reputation until after we admit the clear and glaring fact which says that Muslims have carried out most of the terrorist actions in the world today. We must understand that we cannot reform our youths who are carrying out these atrocious crimes until we have treated the minds of our shaykhs who have turned into revolutionaries at the pulpits and are sending the sons of other people to wars while sending their children to European and American schools.


(Description of Source: London Al-Sharq al-Awsat in Arabic -- Influential Saudi-owned London daily providing independent coverage of Arab and international issues; editorials reflect official Saudi views on foreign policy)
January 12th, 2005  
Anya1982
 
 

Topic: why???


Quote:
Originally Posted by Charge_7
"Just about all terrorists are Muslims"

Your words. I won't retract a thing.

Look who's not reading who. I said it twice before and I'll say it again. I never once said Islam wasn't open to criticism. I also said even my friend criticises parts of it.
Why catarogise (sorry for spelling) a religon? not all muslims are terroists, if you say that then its like saying prod's are terroists........etc. just because there are a few muslim terroist groups about don't make most terroist gropus muslims.....what about RIRA/PIRA/IRA.............round long before alot....................

These muslims chose to interpret their bible thing diff to what it says like johova's, mormons, prod's, greek/russian authadox...........list can go on.

I don't see why people have to catarogise these people
January 12th, 2005  
Doc.S
 
I am stunned! All this knowledge will do good on my working colleagues as I read over here some say slander others say to much intolerance and catigorisation of people. I am grateful for all your opinions and help out here. But I dont think you would stand a day on the same work place as I am working at for the moment. It is truly sad to acknowledge that ppl around me at work really, really and then I mean REALLY catarogise ppl and slander togheter with intolerance + 1000 + points.

But now with all help from all you bright ppl I got some ammunition to face these "Rednecks" around the coffé table where the generall opinion is that someone should take B-52s and bomb the hell out of Kaba and conquer all oil fields in the middle eastern countrys because Islam, and if you are a Muslim you should be shoot on spot. I have changed alot of misunderstandings on work thanks to you guys/girl.

I have made these guys at my work understand that there are a heck a lot of different sub-divisions and that theese ppl all together are no evil clan that will kill everything that is white and walk on two legs and looks like a christian. This may look all togheter crazy but that is how my reality looks like every singel day from 05.45 to 16.00. I am very grateful for all help out here and with this information and FACTS make things more easy to explain for ppl around work all togheter. To answer ms Anya1982 believe me this is why it is good to have facts and help from ppl like you and Italian Guy and most of all my favourit sub-division man on this front. SwordFish_13 thanks alot sir, your help is gunpowder.

More media and other forms of ppl that reach out to other ppl should make more ppl understand this the same way you have helped me out. And Charge_7 I respect you man and thanks for your help too. You see all - Next week we will have an Iraqi guy at work that will will have me as an overseer for the next weeks to come and, all we got to know from upstairs was that this man is a Muslim and an Iraqi, and he doesn`t know any swedish, and very little english. Knowledge is Power and I am gratetful for all your help out here - no one forgotten regardless of attitude and opinion. I love democracy! Hey and if anyone knows anything about where and why you can answer that question if you have the time to - feel free to continue and fill in information on this question too.

Cheerful:
Doc.S
January 12th, 2005  
Anya1982
 
 

Topic: good on ya


Well hope its made a difference for you sweetie...............you have diff opinions here..........for and against...........I just think people need to not be blind and not listen to proper gander on the news about this sorta thing
January 12th, 2005  
Italian Guy
 
 
You're welcome, man. Mutually helpful, that's how it works, in here 8)