Suicides in Gitmo: coordinated or not?

T

Ted

Active member
I read this interesting article in my morning newspaper about the three captives in Guantanimo, who hung themselves. It stated that the US authorities said it was a coordinated event. The three had no regards for life, including their own and tried to become martyrs this way. Personally I think that after 4 years in Gitmo, with no sight on a possible release and next to no rights..... well I would start and consider suicide also.

My question is: what do you guys think about the whole ordeal?
 
Ted said:
I read this interesting article in my morning newspaper about the three captives in Guantanimo, who hung themselves. It stated that the US authorities said it was a coordinated event. The three had no regards for life, including their own and tried to become martyrs this way. Personally I think that after 4 years in Gitmo, with no sight on a possible release and next to no rights..... well I would start and consider suicide also.

My question is: what do you guys think about the whole ordeal?
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Better there than in an American Supermax prison?
 
Better there than in an American Supermax prison?

Not sure I agree with that. At least in the Supermax facilities the prisoners have been charged, tried, and convicted of a crime. They at least got their 'due process', and I suspect there are more dangerous criminals in the Supermax than in Gitmo.

Most of the prisoners at Gitmo havent even been accused of anything. For sure there are violent terrorists in there, no doubt. But I also suspect there are people who were simply in the wrong place at the wrong time, well never know because they Administration refuses to anything.
 
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Personally, I don't know and more importantly I don't care. There wasa time not long ago I was bothered by Gitmo's Camp Delta but now, after I have spent more time researching my enemy I couldn't give a good god damn about their treatment or mistreatment. Suicides? Whatever... one less mouth my tax dollars have to feed and one less suicide bomber to worry about.
 
The three had no regards for life, including their own and tried to become martyrs this way.
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Not a martyr if you hang yourself with a bedsheet. If you die in the act of killing infidels then you are a martyr, if you commit pointless lonely suicide then your an idiot. At least that is what I was led to believe martyrdom was.
 
mmarsh said:
Better there than in an American Supermax prison?

Not sure I agree with that. At least in the Supermax facilities the prisoners have been charged, tried, and convicted of a crime. They at least got their 'due process', and I suspect there are more dangerous criminals in the Supermax than in Gitmo.

Most of the prisoners at Gitmo havent even been accused of anything. For sure there are violent terrorists in there, no doubt. But I also suspect there are people who were simply in the wrong place at the wrong time, well never know because they Administration refuses to anything.
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Yea, but Supermax inmates are on lockdown 23 hours a day and their "outside time" consists of an enclosed cell with a slit in the ceiling for sunlight to get in. Not the happiest place... Aren't the Gitmo guys outside all the time? :D
 
I really don't like the fact that none of these inmates havn't been tried. Its understandable that a couple have hanged themselves. PR stunt? Piss off! I agree that there will be people who DO deserve to be in there, but there will be people who don't.

I don't like the idea that there does not seem to be any effort being spent to seperate the good guys from the bad guys. EVERYONE deserves a fair trial, thats what makes our justice systems more rational. It seems like the adminstration is shooting itself in the foot in the war on terror with the GB morality issue.

Give the inmates a fair trial, then free the good guys and lock the bad guys up accordingly. Fair do's
 
I really dont care about bunch of terrorist killing themselves to join their brothers in allah's paradise.

BTW, it is a grand sin to do self damage/suicide in Islam

Good riddance if you will
 
Bulldogg said:
one less mouth my tax dollars have to feed and one less suicide bomber to worry about.
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Phoenix80 said:
I really dont care about bunch of terrorist killing themselves to join their brothers in allah's paradise.
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I agree with you two if, in fact, these were terrorists. But that is my point; Gitmo is the prime example were the basic justice fundaments stopped working. People were picked of the street, desert if you like, some guilty and others aren't. The mere fact that the US stopped bothering to find out if this is true worries me. The fact that our politicians reluctantly hardly ask questions about this bothers me too! I can't cope well with the fact that it isn't important whether or not you have done anything and people say: ah well, too bad they were in the wrong place at the wrong time!

p.s. If I were let loose after 4 or 5 years in that hellhole, I would make it my life's mission to kill as many as possible of the people who inflicted this on me! I would turn into the thing they accused me of from the very start.
 
They were already associating with a bad crowd, a man is known by the company he keeps. To me its no different than the family that doesn't move when their neighbour is manufacturing IEDs.
 
But we don't know the circumstances in which or the level at which these people were "associated with a bad crowd". Just because a neighbour is making IEDs that doesn't mean the other guy is.

Gitmo shows the US in a very bad light, we're supposed to be morally better than the terrorists, but whats the point when we're behaving like this?
 
I have to agree with bulldogg. You are known by the company you keep. If you stand by and let bad things happen without hindering them then you are just as guilty as helping.
 
Jequirty, I understand your argument as I held it not long ago. Now I think differently. Good and evil are subjective terms. I consider myself a good Catholic but to Osama and his crew I am an evil Infidel. These people would not offer me anything as comfortable as Camp Delta were they to take me prisoner. These people offer me, my family, my friends, my neighbours and my countrymen two choices - convert or die. To think of applying the rights due me as a citizen of my country they wish to destroy along with all its institutions such as the legal system is laughable. Were we enemies fighting by the same rules sure, but that aint the game they brought to the table. In my opinion summary executions were only foregone to obtain intelligence. This enemy would cut your head off live on the internet if given the chance and people bemoan that we aren't giving them a trial?? Screw them.
 
Ted said:
I agree with you two if, in fact, these were terrorists. But that is my point; Gitmo is the prime example were the basic justice fundaments stopped working. People were picked of the street, desert if you like, some guilty and others aren't. The mere fact that the US stopped bothering to find out if this is true worries me. The fact that our politicians reluctantly hardly ask questions about this bothers me too! I can't cope well with the fact that it isn't important whether or not you have done anything and people say: ah well, too bad they were in the wrong place at the wrong time!

p.s. If I were let loose after 4 or 5 years in that hellhole, I would make it my life's mission to kill as many as possible of the people who inflicted this on me! I would turn into the thing they accused me of from the very start.
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LoL

They werent picked off WALKING in the desert or streets. They were taken into CUSTODY of coalition forces carrying weapons. That is a big difference.

They should be kept there until the war on terrorism is over.
 
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Yeah, i understand your argument too bulldogg, but we have our justice system, they have theirs. Ours is much fairer and delivers proper justice where else theirs is, to put it crudely, complete bollocks. Thats what makes us morally better (And stops the hippies crying. In theory.) and gives us the high ground. If we don't keep that high ground, people around the globe will soon be unable to determine who are the good guys and who are the bad guys in this war on terror which will only encourage more attacks on the boys on the ground.

Also, without a trial, how can anyone determine whether this people held are actually guilty? There seems to be a lack of common sense somewhere. A fair trial for each of them will determine whether they're actually bad guys, if they are then punish them accordingly but what happens if some of those guys were just in the wrong place at the wrong time? No-one can really say for sure unless there are trials held.

I just don't think this will help America in the long run and the whole deal is pretty shady, but thats my two cents done and dusted
 
ASTRALdragon said:
Yea, but Supermax inmates are on lockdown 23 hours a day and their "outside time" consists of an enclosed cell with a slit in the ceiling for sunlight to get in. Not the happiest place... Aren't the Gitmo guys outside all the time? :D
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To qualify for an hour in the exercise yard, the criminals undergo a full body cavity search before and after so most just stay in their cells 24/day.
 
I'm glad it has been explained to me that these suicides were probably an act of assymetric warfare. I had this slight inclination that they may have been depressed. My confusion is now over.

Enemy combatants. Still waiting for trials. War on terrorism to go on for decades. Will they ever be released?

"Gitmo" is becoming one of the best sources of propaganda that the terrorists have ever had.
 
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/5102528.stm


"The US 'wants to end Guantanamo'


US President George W Bush has said he understands European concerns over the US prison at Guantanamo Bay and he "would like it to end".
Mr Bush pledged to send detainees back to their home countries, but added that the outcome must not result in freeing "people who can do us harm". The comments came after talks with EU leaders at a one-day summit in Vienna. Leaders also discussed trade, global energy security, climate change, Iraq and the Iranian nuclear crisis."

Nice one
 
I want Gitmo to stand as a fate worse than death and that's exactly what it is to most "terrorists." They are in a place that they earned, who are we to take that away from them. And as for suicides, what is that to them except that they can't take others with them with a suicide belt?
 
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