Sturmtiger, the deathstar of world war 2

Armyjaeger

Armyjaeger

Active member
http://www.achtungpanzer.com/sttig.htm

Few quotes from that link

"The Sturmtiger was armed with a short-barreled 38cm Raketenwerfer 61 L/5.4, breech-loading rocket launcher/mortar. The RW 61 launcher fired short-range (4,600 to 6,000 meters, or 2,850 to 3,720 yards) high-explosive rocket-propelled projectiles. The launcher was fitted with a PaK Zielfernrohr 3 x 8 telescopic sight. Each projec-tile was almost 1.5m (five feet) long and weighed 345 to 351kg (759 to 772 pounds). Two types of ammunition were available-high-explosive Raketen Sprenggranate 4581 (with a 125kg, or 275 pound, explosive charge) and shaped-charge Raketen Hohladungsgranate 4582 for use against fortifications. The shaped-charge round could penetrate up 2.5m (8 feet) of reinforced concrete."

"Most vehicles carried only 13 rounds, without the one on the loading tray. The vehicle was equipped with a hand-operated lifting crane mounted on the right rear of the superstructure. This was used to load projectiles into the vehicle and needed the entire crew of five to operate. "

"In January 1945, a single round from a PzStuMrKp 1001 Sturmtiger reportedly destroyed three American M-4 Sherman tanks located in a targeted village. "

Comments, opinions, anyone :D
 
I think the German tanks in WWII were better then the US, but what does it help you having the better tank when you have no gas or ammunition. And i think the advantage of the sherman is that he wars easy to produce.
 
Jäger said:
I think the German tanks in WWII were better then the US, but what does it help you having the better tank when you have no gas or ammunition. And i think the advantage of the sherman is that he wars easy to produce.
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Agree 100% especially if you look at tank on tank combat. The German Panzers with an 88mm Main Gun against a Sherman with a 75mm low velocity main gun. Coupled with the high profile of the Sherman gave the advantage to the Germans.
 
Yes, I think it was just another sign of the German militaries weird thinking at the end of the war, why were dwindling resources spent building a vehicle designed to support a military going forward when you have been in retreat for the previous 2 years.

To my mind they would have been better spent on getting the basics to the front rather than a few spify but ultimately ineffective weapons on the field.
 
I think the great problem was that Hitler had not much knowledge of warfare and he just wanted new nice toys. Another problem was that the informations that came from the front often sounded better than the situation really was. Maybe for propaganda, maybe not to annoy the 'Führer'.
 
Jäger said:
I think the great problem was that Hitler had not much knowledge of warfare and he just wanted new nice toys. Another problem was that the informations that came from the front often sounded better than the situation really was. Maybe for propaganda, maybe not to annoy the 'Führer'.
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That maybe true but when the front is a mere 2 hour march away as opposed to a 7 day train ride the year before even the most deluded should realise things are not going well and that rather than producing countless "toys" it was time to consolidate on the tried and true for no other reason than ease of manufacture and supply.
 
Yes, but don't say that to me say that to the leaders of the '3rd Reich', but Hitler was so in ilusions, that he wouldn't realize it. He was more than crazy and maybe it's better that he did do it this way, so the war did not go longer.
 
Read anything about the 'Sturmtiger's' operational history and you will see that it was practically useless and achieved very little. The action were it destroyed 3 Shermans in a village is often printed about in books because it is probably the only notable sucess the vehicle ever achieved and even then it was only three tanks that were easily replaced.

"Their heavy armor protection forced the enemy to destroy them with heavy artillery bombardment or air attack."

This really wasn't a problem since this is how the American military usually destroyed any major opposition it encountered, large or small. Hell, the USAF practically wiped the entire elite 'Panzer Lehr' division of the face of the earth with repeated heavy bomber strikes during Operation Cobra, so the use of it's vast material superiority was kind of the USA's strongsuit!

To quote from the book "The Tiger Tanks", by Peter Gudgin, "what purpose Hitler had in mind for these short-range assault weapons for attacking strongly constructed emplacements, at a time when the German Army was in retreat and on the defensive on all fronts, is not clear; it is another example of his preoccupation with size and his interference in German tank design and production, with adverse effects on both." They would have been far better off using their limited resources to churn out as many of the Tigers and Panther tank series as possible.

The 'Sturmtiger' was hardly a 'Deathstar'.
 
It isn't suprising the germans would build something they didn't need. After all they did build the 'Dora' possibly one of the worst military inventions of all times. However remember Hitler was a drug addict at the end of the war so he would probably support anything. It is said he believed the Germans were winning until the very end.
 
Hitler's interference and meddling caused all sorts of wild and fanciful military projects to be undertaken, none of them doing Germany much good and all tieing up scare military resources.

I think Germany might have been best to listen to Guderian when he was Inspector General of Panzertruppen and just focus on building late model Panzer IVs. Panthers and Tigers were better tanks but they were more complicated to build, service, repair in the field and less could be built. After all, the reason why the Wehrmacht was initially so successful was all to do with tactics and training and nothing to do with how good their tanks were.

If you really wanted to label a German tank design as the 'Deathstar of WW2' it would have to be the insane design for a 1000 tonne tank called the Ratte (Rat) and an even bigger 1500 tonne one. From the same website:

http://www.achtungpanzer.com/p1000.htm
 
I think you mean 100 Tonnen, beacause 1000Tonnen is not realistic. The bigger one with 150Tonnen was called 'Mouse'
 
Jäger said:
I think you mean 100 Tonnen, beacause 1000Tonnen is not realistic. The bigger one with 150Tonnen was called 'Mouse'
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I know about the Maus tank but this one is separate from that. Did you read the link? Guderian also mentioned the Ratte in his memoirs. Of course it isn't realistic but that's Hitler for you!
 
I'm sorry, I thought that the weight was wrong on this side, but my searches found different other sides with that weight. It's just unbelivebal for me. I wanted to say that there is the 'Maus', because of the combination of the 'little' name and the big 'thing' . I saw it in the Tankmuseum in Munster, Germany. Not very attractiv, but impressiv.
 
Jäger said:
I think you mean 100 Tonnen, beacause 1000Tonnen is not realistic. The bigger one with 150Tonnen was called 'Mouse'
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I checked out that link (http://www.achtungpanzer.com/p1000.htm) and here's part of what is listed.

"On June 23rd of 1942, Dir. Dip. Ing. Grote (along with Dr.Hacker) from the Ministry of Armament, who was responsible for the production of U-Boots suggested the development of a tank with a weight of 1000 tons. Adolf Hitler himself expressed interest in this project and allowed Krupp to go ahead with it. Project was designated as Krupp P 1000 (Ratte - Rat). This "land cruiser" would be 35 meters long, 14 meters wide and 11 meters high. P 1000 would be equipped with 3.6 meters wide tracks per side made of three 1.2 meters tracks, similar to those used in excavators working in coalmines. It was planned to power P 1000 with two MAN V12Z32/44 24 cylinder Diesel marine engines with total power of 17000hp (2 x 8500hp) or with eight Daimler-Benz MB501 20 cylinder Diesel marine engines with total power of 16000hp (8 x 2000hp). According to the calculations it would allow P 1000 to travel at maximum speed of 40km/h. P 1000 would be armed with a variety of weapons such as: two 280mm gun (naval gun used in Scharnhorst and Gneisenau warships), single 128mm gun, eight 20mm Flak 38 anti-aircraft guns and two 15mm Mauser MG 151/15 gun.

In December of 1942, Krupp created new design of 1500 ton tank - P 1500. It frontal armor would be 250mm thick and it would be armed with 800mm super heavy mortar "Dora" type and possibly two 150mm artillery pieces. P 1500 would be powered by two or four submarine diesel engines. In early 1943, Albert Speer cancelled both projects. P 1000 turret ended up at coastal defence battery (Batterie Oerlander) near Trondheim, Norway. "
 
The germans also tried to build flying Saucer i the 1940's...they should have waited like America and Russia did and do them in the 50's.
 
Doppleganger said:
Hitler's interference and meddling caused all sorts of wild and fanciful military projects to be undertaken, none of them doing Germany much good and all tieing up scare military resources.

I think Germany might have been best to listen to Guderian when he was Inspector General of Panzertruppen and just focus on building late model Panzer IVs. Panthers and Tigers were better tanks but they were more complicated to build, service, repair in the field and less could be built. After all, the reason why the Wehrmacht was initially so successful was all to do with tactics and training and nothing to do with how good their tanks were.

If you really wanted to label a German tank design as the 'Deathstar of WW2' it would have to be the insane design for a 1000 tonne tank called the Ratte (Rat) and an even bigger 1500 tonne one. From the same website:

http://www.achtungpanzer.com/p1000.htm
Click to expand...

1000 Tonne? Where did achtungpanzer.com get this information?
 
CABAL said:
Doppleganger said:
Hitler's interference and meddling caused all sorts of wild and fanciful military projects to be undertaken, none of them doing Germany much good and all tieing up scare military resources.

I think Germany might have been best to listen to Guderian when he was Inspector General of Panzertruppen and just focus on building late model Panzer IVs. Panthers and Tigers were better tanks but they were more complicated to build, service, repair in the field and less could be built. After all, the reason why the Wehrmacht was initially so successful was all to do with tactics and training and nothing to do with how good their tanks were.

If you really wanted to label a German tank design as the 'Deathstar of WW2' it would have to be the insane design for a 1000 tonne tank called the Ratte (Rat) and an even bigger 1500 tonne one. From the same website:

http://www.achtungpanzer.com/p1000.htm
Click to expand...

1000 Tonne? Where did achtungpanzer.com get this information?
Click to expand...

Guderian mentioned the tank in his memoirs.

June 23rd, 1942 at a conference of senior Generals and Party Officials.

"Then his[Hitler's] fantasy led him into the realm of the gigantic. The engineers Grote and Hacker were ordered to design a monster tank weighing 1,000 tons." (p. 278, Panzer Leader, Heinz Guderian).

I'm not sure when the project was cancelled, although it was probably in 1943 sometime after Guderian had been appointed Inspector General of Panzertruppen. It never really got past an initial design stage AFAIK.
 
German engineering is something else. The thought of something that large and so heavily armed and armoured moving at 40 km/h is truly something that would give infantry a pause for the cause. German tanks were better by far than the American machines but if this were possible earlier in the war in vast numbers, one can imagine the impact.
 
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