stirring the pot




 
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May 25th, 2012  
benaakatz
 
 

Topic: stirring the pot


In 2007, Israel achieved a civilian casualty ratio of 1:30, or one civilian casualty for every thirty combatant casualties, in its airstrikes on militants in the Palestinian territories.[5] Commentators have noted that, "No army in history has ever had a better ratio of combatants to civilians killed in a comparable setting".[6]

[5] Harel, Amos (December 30, 2007). "Pinpoint attacks on Gaza more precise". Haaretz. Retrieved October 11, 2011. http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition...ecise-1.236163

[6] Dershowitz, Alan (January 3, 2008). "Targeted Killing Is Working, So Why Is The Press Not Reporting It?". The Huffington Post. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/alan-d..._b_79616.html?
May 25th, 2012  
senojekips
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by benaakatz
In 2007, Israel achieved a civilian casualty ratio of 1:30, or one civilian casualty for every thirty combatant casualties, in its airstrikes on militants in the Palestinian territories.[5] Commentators have noted that, "No army in history has ever had a better ratio of combatants to civilians killed in a comparable setting".[6]
Your "stirring" is just that, beyond which it is totally meaningless, picking one year out of 60+ is hardly a representative cross section,... then limiting it to one type of killing to distort it even further.
These figures are only from 2000 -2012 and they make your claim look stupid.
http://old.btselem.org/statistics/en...Casualties.asp

It reminds me of the glutton who bolts down a dozen Big Mac's with super sized fries, and then claims that he's really trying to diet as he only drank diet coke.
May 25th, 2012  
VDKMS
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by senojekips
Your "stirring" is just that, beyond which it is totally meaningless, picking one year out of 60+ is hardly a representative cross section,... then limiting it to one type of killing to distort it even further.
These figures are only from 2000 -2012 and they make your claim look stupid.
http://old.btselem.org/statistics/en...Casualties.asp

It reminds me of the glutton who bolts down a dozen Big Mac's with super sized fries, and then claims that he's really trying to diet as he only drank diet coke.
You better read his post again. It's about the civilian casualty ratio not the total casualties. What's the civilian casualty ratio of the Palestinians? 30:1?

You better thank the IDF for their precision attacks and their restraint.
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May 25th, 2012  
senojekips
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by VDKMS
You better read his post again. It's about the civilian casualty ratio not the total casualties. What's the civilian casualty ratio of the Palestinians? 30:1?
You better thank the IDF for their precision attacks and their restraint.
The IDF? Oh you mean those murdering pricks who deny medical assistance to civilians, shoot at innocent Palestinians harvesting their crops, and molest women and children trying to pass through their "check points" to get food, yes, we know all about them.

I knew that you of all people would be to damned stupid to work out the ratio once we included the remaining conveniently ignored Palestinian civilian deaths. I also noticed how Ben totally missed such figures as those below.
Quote:
Originally Posted by B'Tselem and Israel Ministry of Foreign Affairs
From 1987 to present the ratio Palestinians killed to Isrealis has been 5:1. During the same period this ratio for children has been 10:1, however during the last 5 years (since 2006) this ratio has jumped several times. During the last 5 years, Israel killed 28 Palestinians for each Israeli killed. As for children, 76 Palestinian children for each Israeli child killed.
Source(s):
Israeli human rights group B'Tselem and Israel Ministry of Foreign Affairs
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine_i…
May 26th, 2012  
benaakatz
 
 
my point is that the idf, as a whole, does IN GENERAL try to limit civilian casualties in wartime.

the idf deals with a big challenge: the main two armies it fights, the hamas/islamic jihad/PRC militants (numbering about 30,000 militants total) and Hezbollah in southern lebanon have both stored their rockets and missiles and production facilities in cities and towns amongst the civilian population. they often produce and store their armaments in homes against will of the populace, who understandably do not want their homes bombed and their families placed in danger.

against individual rocket squads who operate in fields between major conflicts (the 2006 lebanon war, the war in gaza in december 2008-january 2009), the idf has been very precise.

it is up to the militants who choose to launch rockets (at the israeli civilian populace, most of whom accept the two state solution, a WAR CRIME documented by B'tselem, Amnesty International, etc. etc.) to ensure that their activities do not place their own populace in harms way

my two cents
May 27th, 2012  
senojekips
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by benaakatz
it is up to the militants who choose to launch rockets (at the israeli civilian populace, most of whom accept the two state solution, a WAR CRIME documented by B'tselem, Amnesty International, etc. etc.) to ensure that their activities do not place their own populace in harms way.
The Israelis only have themselves to blame, if they weren't living on someone else's land the Palestinians would have no reason to resist them would they? You steal, they resist, action and reaction, it's a fundamental law.

The very fact that the Zionists put Israel on Palestinian land was what put their people in harms way.

Like I said, your initial post was about a very narrow cross section in a very limited field, and as such really means nothing at all, as the total of Israel's war crimes and crimes against humanity far outweigh anything the Palestinians have ever done, or will ever get done should they have another 100 years of resistance.
May 27th, 2012  
benaakatz
 
 
i understand your viewpoints even if i disagree.

i guess my question to you would be, do you support palestinian militant attacks that SOLEY target civilians?

no matter who is right or wrong it is my opinion that these attacks are never justified. rocket attacks have caused severe PTSD disorders in over 50 to some 70 percent of israeli children living within range and constant bombardment.

i don't think that's right

thankfully, things have "cooled down" recently and few civilians on either side have died recently
May 27th, 2012  
senojekips
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by benaakatz
i understand your viewpoints even if i disagree.

i guess my question to you would be, do you support palestinian militant attacks that SOLEY target civilians?

no matter who is right or wrong it is my opinion that these attacks are never justified. rocket attacks have caused severe PTSD disorders in over 50 to some 70 percent of israeli children living within range and constant bombardment.

i don't think that's right

thankfully, things have "cooled down" recently and few civilians on either side have died recently
I love to see those who oppress others, or are a willing part of the problem get their just desserts. There is something very satisfying in seeing an oppressor get a bit of grief, and I don't care who they are, the main problem being that it doesn't happen often enough.

As for the Israeli children, I'll quote the Israeli answer, "They are collateral damage, I'm really, really sorry". My personal view being that, if their parents hadn't have placed them in harms way, it wouldn't be an issue would it?

You see, that's how these things come back to bite you on the @rse, if you allowed the Palis to have enormous financial aid from the US plus a large army armed with modern guided weapons, many of these civilian deaths could probably be avoided.
May 27th, 2012  
I3BrigPvSk
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by senojekips
I love to see those who oppress others, or are a willing part of the problem get their just desserts. There is something very satisfying in seeing an oppressor get a bit of grief, and I don't care who they are, the main problem being that it doesn't happen often enough.

As for the Israeli children, I'll quote the Israeli answer, "They are collateral damage, I'm really, really sorry". My personal view being that, if their parents hadn't have placed them in harms way, it wouldn't be an issue would it?

You see, that's how these things come back to bite you on the @rse, if you allowed the Palis to have enormous financial aid from the US plus a large army armed with modern guided weapons, many of these civilian deaths could probably be avoided.
So all Israelis are guilty for atrocities and their crime is; they are born in Israel?
May 27th, 2012  
senojekips
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by I3BrigPvSk
So all Israelis are guilty for atrocities and their crime is; they are born in Israel?
Firstly, "Where exactly did I say that" Please read my answers carefully and don't go trying to escalate the situation by applying your own interpretations. Should I wish to, I can very easily do that myself, there's any amount of evidence out there.

You can't apply one set of rules for the Palis and expect a different set of rules for yourself. If your government treats others like sh!t, beating harassing and murdering women and children in their thousands, and you enjoy the spoils, you can be sure that it's going to bite you on the bum eventually.

As I said earlier. "For every action, there is a reaction, and at some time and place not necessarily of your choosing, there will be a price to pay.
 


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