It will deter crime. Proof is that it has deterred pookie.

mur·der ( P ) Pronunciation Key (mûrdr)
n.

1. The unlawful killing of one human by another, especially with premeditated malice.

v. mur·dered, mur·der·ing, mur·ders
v. tr.

1. To kill (another human) unlawfully.
2. To kill brutally or inhumanly.
3. To put an end to; destroy: murdered their chances.
4. To spoil by ineptness; mutilate: a speech that murdered the English language.
5. Slang. To defeat decisively; trounce

I'm having a hard time letting this one go. I've heard and read many things on this forum which I am not agreeing with. But this one tops them 'till now.
I've looked up the definition of murder and murdering in in my opinion some of you are nearly as bad as "Tookie". You are only clever enough to look for a "justifiable" reason to kill somebody. The difference will probably be that Tookie showed remorse and you will brag about it during a barbeque! For crying out loud, you are talking about taking somebodies life. According to the second definition some of you will definatly qualify as murderer. You are waiting for an excuse to brutally and/ or inhumanly kill fellow citizens of whom it isn't proven to be criminal. But innocent 'till proven guilty is something that seems not to matter any longer. In my European, leftist, insignificant opinion some people here are definatly scary and I wouldn't be to proud about it!

He never showed remorse because he continued to claim innocence until death. He also refused to give any information on other gang members who go right on killing. He was proven guilty and had 24 years that he took away from his victim with a shotgun. Every Court appeal by even left leaning ones could not be supported.

ex·e·cu·tion

1. The act or an instance of putting to death or being put to death as a lawful penalty.
2. a putting to death as fulfillment of a judicial death sentence.
3. n : putting a condemned person to death [syn: executing, capital punishment, death penalty]
4. The carrying into effect of a court judgment.

You know Missileer, I am not opposed to capital punishment. We had our last one on May 7th 1946! But I don see it as a means of correction. People overestimate the impact of the death penalty on crime. The protagonists look at Singapore and the antagonists look at the US and China.
The only time I am for this punishment is when the convicted person willingly and consciously states that he has done it, that it is proven beyond a shred of doubt and that the chance of repeating is certain. I think along the lines of Jeffrey Dahmer or this guy we put away for life for killing a cineast is Holland. He stated before a court that he would do it again, that he was proud of what he did and had no remorse. End of story in my opinion.
What totally rattled my chain was the total ease of which some spoke about randomly killing other people. The victims would be labeled "gang banger" and the turkey shoot was on. I reminded me of that guy who shot a Sikh because he had a beard and a tulban. Ooh... oops.. eehh sorry mate, didn't know you aren't muslim. The guy should, in the opinion of others, be put to death too. Of course this guy almost deserves to die for his utter and total lack of a working braincell...... I just hope that some start to see that the death sentence and the preparedness and willingness to kill people whom, they think, don't deserve to live aren't even in the same ball park.

The problem with the American prison system is it's inherent porousness. A mob boss doesn't lose power or control because it is just as easy for him to run his businesses from a jail cell. Same way with a gang leader. They can have people killed at will from prison as in their own lair. Bad guards on the take, crooked lawyers who are really go betweens, mobsters who get incarcerated for a petty crime simply to act as a stooge on the inside to do the leader's bidding. It's best to kill the entire snake by beheading it. And in the meantime, there are groups like the American Criminal Liberties Union agitating for their release, which is possible.

Originally Posted by phoenix80

I believe FBI and other US law enforcement departments are fighting the gang groups as hard as they can!

Watch CNN's lou dobbs and you will hear a lot that many of them are from Latin America and most of them end up getting caught by Police would be sent back to their native countries (however they'd return later, LOL)!

Yeah Okay. Your falling into the MS13 line that certain media outlets and LEA's are pushing right know.

While MS13 may be one of the worst Street Gangs working right now they are not the be all end all of street gangs. Or of criminally motivated organizations out there. You still have Crips, Bloods, Peoples, Folks, BGD, Vice Lords, AB, Jamaican Posse's, Haitian Gangs, Chinese Triads, Vietnamese Gangs, Korean Gangs, Filipino Gangs, plus the MotorCyle clubs who aren't gangs just ask em.

As far as Latino gang members being caught for crimes committed in the US and only being deported well...Your Wrong. First they serve their time, then they are transferred to ICE Custody and then deportation procedings are started.

[quote-Ted]He's been in jail for how many years? Crime really dropped because of that.[/quote]

costs money to keep worthless piles like him in jail.

! He won't do anything anymore, but do you really think that others are suddenly reconsidering stopping with crime?

They wont do that until we adopt the saudi system. Charged, convincted, 30 days for appeal, execution.

It won't matter how many you kill.... in a society so hostile, blood thirsty and living by the gun, you'll have ample people to execute. And my guess is it won't help one bit.

So your saying killing bad people doesnt help anyting, i happen to disagree.

Originally Posted by 5.56X45mm

He's got a date with the devil and he's going keep his appointment!



That guy is nothing but a scumbag and a killer. He says that he never killed those folks. BULL! He's a murderer and a gettho hood rat gand banger. He helped create the worst thing since Small Pox. I hate gangs and I hate gang members.

He says he in for peace. Lies, all lies. The Correctional Officers at the prison say this guy is still running things. Untill he admits that he killed those four people and than Jesus shows up and says stop. He's gonna die!

All of his little gettho friends all accross the country say that they're gonna rise up and riot if Tookie is put down like the dog he is. Well, I say let them. I have plenty of ammo and so do all of my friends. I might be hunting gettho hood rats very soon.

You can't be real surely?

Originally Posted by Ted

I'm having a hard time letting this one go. I've heard and read many things on this forum which I am not agreeing with. But this one tops them 'till now.
I've looked up the definition of murder and murdering in in my opinion some of you are nearly as bad as "Tookie". You are only clever enough to look for a "justifiable" reason to kill somebody. The difference will probably be that Tookie showed remorse and you will brag about it during a barbeque! For crying out loud, you are talking about taking somebodies life. According to the second definition some of you will definatly qualify as murderer. You are waiting for an excuse to brutally and/ or inhumanly kill fellow citizens of whom it isn't proven to be criminal. But innocent 'till proven guilty is something that seems not to matter any longer. In my European, leftist, insignificant opinion some people here are definatly scary and I wouldn't be to proud about it!

Tookie showed remorse and wrote childrens books after he was convicted of murder and sentenced to death. Before that whe was a thug gangster who controlled most of the drug trade in SoCal.
The esteemed Mister Williams committed murder at close range with a shotgun. (Premeditated murder) Ever seen what a shotgun loaded with 00 buck will do at close range?

He was found guilty of Murder by a jury of his peers. His guilt was determined by the evidence presented by the District Attorney representing the People of the State of California in proceedings in front of a Superior Court Judge of the State of California.

He was sentenced to death under California State Law in that the Murder met all standards for the sentence of death set forth by that law and governing when and if the Death Penalty may be applied.

He exhausted all avenues of appeal. With no appelette court finding grounds to overturn the sentence. To include the US 9th Circuit Court generally known as the 9th Circus Court and the most liberal court in the country.

So you see Ted, oh paragon of virtue and light that you are. Tookie was guilty!!!

Escuuuussseee meeeeee!

Your dictionary definition leaves out a lot (as in FACTs)


Fact:
Tookie Williams WAS found guilty of First Degree Murder. The evidence left NO DOUBT in the minds of the jurors that Tookie was the person who carried out the murders and First Degree Murder is punishable by death.

Fact:
I DON'T GIVE A DAMN THAT TOOKIE SAID HE WAS NOT GUILTY.
Every person since Cain slew Abel has protested their innocence.
In very few cases has the ruling been overturned and then only when the evidence of innocence was so strong as to remove ANY possibility of guilt.

Fact:
What was carried out in Tookie's case is called "JUSTICE". Prison officials have related that Tookie had a history that does NOT support the claim that Tookie was rehabilitated (fights, verbal assaults on guards and trouble making) and did NOT deserve a commutation of sentence.

Fact:
Tookie could have written 10,000 books decrying gangs and gang violence and it would NOT tip the scales of justice in the slightest because he, at no time, ever accepted responsibility for his crimes or cooperated with law enforcement to break up the gangs ("I'm no rat" was his comment when this subject was brought up).

Fact:
Don't call what was carried out murder, that was what Tookie did (it cost four people their lives) and what he received was justice for those crimes (nothing more and nothing less).

If you wish to use a definition in this argument, how about looking up the word "FACT".

Keep giving him what for oh great and omnipitant one (03USMC).