Was Stalin going to attack Nazi Germany?




 
--
 
April 30th, 2012  
mr Joker
 

Topic: Was Stalin going to attack Nazi Germany?


Would he have done so if the Germans did not invade the Soviet Union? I think there were plans due to the danger the Germans represented to SU but I don't think Stalin would have attacked and initiated the war.

Personally I think he wouldn't as my estimation of Stalin is that he was cautious and wouldn't start a war as dangerous as that might had been, and a war with Nazi Germany would have very negative consequences even if won. If the red army recovered from the bad situation it was after Stalin's purges at a later date, Stalin would probably be even less in favor of attacking Germany when his army is powerful enough to limit Germany's threat to him. (When the army was seemingly weak but in truth Russia could not be defeated even then, I don't think at 1941 Stalin could invade Germany, and later I don't think he would have to and if the Germans had reservations before at launching Barbarossa perharps at a later date with a better regrouped and prepared Soviet Union, not only the generals but perhaps even the likes of Hitler might not have have agreed with Barbarossa.

Of course if we switched the leaders and put Hitler in the place of Stalin as leader of the Soviet Union (but he is not an Austrian/ sees himself as German but he does have the same pro risks personality), I think he would have attacked Germany eventually, but I don't see Stalin doing so. But I would like to hear some other opinions.
April 30th, 2012  
MontyB
 
 
In 1941 there was no chance Stalin would attack, the Red Army was a mess and in the process of rebuilding after a disaterous 20 years however 1943 I suspect he would have attacked.

By then the Red Army would had its new armour in bulk numbers and it would have had the Deep Battle concept perfected so I think 1943 is the year Stalin would have made his move.
April 30th, 2012  
mr Joker
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MontyB
In 1941 there was no chance Stalin would attack, the Red Army was a mess and in the process of rebuilding after a disaterous 20 years however 1943 I suspect he would have attacked.

By then the Red Army would had its new armour in bulk numbers and it would have had the Deep Battle concept perfected so I think 1943 is the year Stalin would have made his move.
Why would he need to start a highly costly war though when by 1943 Germany will be a lesser threat for the stronger Red Army?
--
April 30th, 2012  
Der Alte
 
That there was an intent on Stalin's part to attack the Germans, and that plans had been exercised to this effect. I'm sure that's true, however, what nation wouldn't have formulated offensive plans as an option. Still, that plans exist and are exercised is no clear indication of Soviet intentions. I believe it was probable that to Stalin, a war between Hitler and the Entente countries would turn into another WWI bloodbath which would bleed both sides white and leave them vulnerable to a Soviet incursion and I believe Stalin could find other rationalizations for preparing a move on Europe.
April 30th, 2012  
mr Joker
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Der Alte
That there was an intent on Stalin's part to attack the Germans, and that plans had been exercised to this effect. I'm sure that's true, however, what nation wouldn't have formulated offensive plans as an option. Still, that plans exist and are exercised is no clear indication of Soviet intentions. I believe it was probable that to Stalin, a war between Hitler and the Entente countries would turn into another WWI bloodbath which would bleed both sides white and leave them vulnerable to a Soviet incursion and I believe Stalin could find other rationalizations for preparing a move on Europe.
Yes I find this plausible of Stalin taking advantage of weakened Germany that would be an 'easier' target to strike against. However if that did not happen, then I while obviously not being able to be anything but unsure due to lack of conclusive data, I believe that Stalin would not have attacked a Germany that was not 'sufficiently weakened'. So if the Americans enter the war against Germany, Stalin might eventually enter the war and benefit from it conquering a whole lot of territory against Germany, based on what the Americans can do against the Germans.

But even if he does not interfere, Stalin will probably see Germany and British/others weakening theirselves in a war a win/win.
April 30th, 2012  
MontyB
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr Joker
Why would he need to start a highly costly war though when by 1943 Germany will be a lesser threat for the stronger Red Army?
One book you may want to look into is: Stalins Falle: Er wollte den Krieg ("Stalin's Trap: He Wanted War"), by Adolf von Thadden.

It outlines the thoughts behind Stalins objectives however I will warn you that von Thadden is considered "right wing" or "nationalist" by many.
April 30th, 2012  
hamidreza
 
I think Stalin didn’t carry out this attack. Getting war against Hitler in his home is different to war in cold large Russia, in Stalingrad or Moscow, and without the US help, the victory was impossible. And I don’t see any motivation for the US to help the SU to give the whole Europe to them. If the SU attacked to Germany, It would have been better for the US to watch this war instead of entering to it. Two weakened rival is much better than one very strong rival.
I think Stalin would have preferred to live in peace with a very strong army and watched the Britain-Germany, the US-Japan and the others wars and waited for a suitable opportunity instead of entering to a useless war. This opportunity could be created by the US war against Germany.
April 30th, 2012  
LeEnfield
 
 
I think that Stalin learnt a lot on his attack on Sweden and he would have felt that taking on Germany some time in the next ten years would not be an option. As for planning attacks on Germany well yes there would always be there as a training excesses for Officers......Lets face it America was planning to invade Canada in the 1930's and even built military installations to carry out this attack and went under the code name Operation Pink
April 30th, 2012  
RayManKiller3
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeEnfield
Lets face it America was planning to invade Canada in the 1930's and even built military installations to carry out this attack and went under the code name Operation Pink

lol I never heard of that. Learn something new every day.

As for Stalin, there were plans, but I don't think it would have been successful. The only reason the Soviets survived WW2 was the Russian winter, starting a fight with Germany on home soil would not have gone well.
May 1st, 2012  
r.fox
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeEnfield
I think that Stalin learnt a lot on his attack on Sweden and he would have felt that taking on Germany some time in the next ten years would not be an option.
err it was finland that the ussr invaded.

i personaly dont think that Stalin would have attacked hitler at all. ironicly hitler was the only man Stalin thought he could trust. shows what happens when dictators put their trust in others...
 


Similar Topics
If The World Treated WW2 Like the War On Terrorism!
Timeline of Incompetent Leadership Contest in WW II
China plans to invade US!
Pearl Harbour one more lie?????
India and Pakistan