Split: Who started the Arab-Israeli Conflict - Page 4




 
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Boots
 
March 6th, 2005  
MontyB
 
 
Quote:
All intell agencys around the world break the law when it comes to their travel arangements. If a innocent NZer was arrested by Syria, well, that would be a Syria-NZ problem, as in any other situation where an NZer is arrested for no reason.
There is a difference though and that is that we caught your lot.

However this argument is going nowhere fast neither of us are going to change the others mind.

Quote:
Really, how long were you in Israel?
On and off for about a month maybe a bit less, however (and you probably wont agree) of the 4 countries visited I really liked Jordan, found Israel ok and really disliked Egypt due mainly to security problems, the rest was just business.
March 6th, 2005  
chewie_nz
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SHERMAN

Quote:
i agree with monty on this (surprise surprise) alot of extra effort needs to be done on any peace plans becuase neither side is winning. with the palestinians being terrorists, but they are figting the heavy hand of isreal. thta's what we see on our TV's almost everynight
When will you realise that CNN loves an underdog?

lol...never watch CNN as US journalism leaves alot to be desired, i prefer to watch the BBC and then flesh out any gaps in the coverage with local opinion and the net (places like this)
the NZ media is pretty much unbiased when it come to the middle east as we have no real stake in the region. spy's using a friendly counties passports is not on, remember mossad got cought in canada too.
March 6th, 2005  
SHERMAN
 
 
Oh my god... BBC makes CNN look like the Israeli National Broadcasts.....

Quote:
spy's using a friendly counties passports is not on, remember mossad got cought in canada too
Only problem i see with it is that the incopmpetent morons got caught . But that is probably because of the sheer volume of humint Israel is involved with...
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Boots
March 6th, 2005  
chewie_nz
 
OK, i have this idea,

it's not an origional one (most of it is in a Tom Clancy book)

the UN created this mess, why aren't they trying harder to fix it...if there was ever a more clear cut case for peacekeepers, i haven't seen it.
March 6th, 2005  
SHERMAN
 
 
Israel will not allow peacekeapers here. The main issue was that no one in the UN bothered to make sure that the partition will be preformed in 1948. So the Arab nations invaded, and what ever the y got out of it, they sure as heck dident hand to the Palestinians. It is a tragedy, no doubt, but if you look for guilty parties the Arab countrys are more at blame that the UN.
March 6th, 2005  
Corocotta
 
 
I am sorry, but I do not trust any action that your Prime Minister, Ariel Sharon, have done or will do in the future. We should remember his participation in the massacres of Sabra and Shatila:during the Israeli military invasion to Lebanon on June of 1982, called “Peace for Galilea”, killed hundreds of thousands of Lebaneses civiles. In spite of the powerful terror´s machinery of Israel, the Israeli Defense Minister, Ariel Sharon, felt the taste of the military failure and couldn´t defeat and destroy the Palestinian resistence of the Palestinian Liberation Organization-PLO and the Lebanese National Movement, releasing his criminal anger against the Palestinian Refugee Camps in Sabra and Shatila, murdering in 72 hours to five-thousand Palestinian Refugees, most of them children, women and old men that were unprotected after the PLO retirement of Lebanon and after the no-fulfillment of the contracted agreement by the internacional forces to protect the security of the Palestinian Refugees.


To 20 years of the Sabra and Shatila Massacre, in contrast to many other War Criminals that were taken to the International Courts, the War Criminal, Sharon, was rewarded with the democratic title of First Minister of Israel.

With old age Sharon printed again his Criminal mark against the Palestinian People, pulverizeing the Oslo´s Agreements, occupying again and destroying all the territory of Palestine. At the same time he pened to the President Yasser Arafat in his detroyed Presidence of Ramallah since the last 1st of December of 2001, imposing Sharon systematically his longed dream of Ethnical Cleaning of the Palestinian People.


http://www.palestina.int.ar/Sabra-Shatila/hsasha2.htm
March 7th, 2005  
Corocotta
 
 
I also talked about the pressure some countries support to say yes to UN resolution 181:

The partition resolution required a 2/3 majority to pass, and it became evident that due to Arab pressure and resistance to the US by third-world countries, it might not pass. On November 25, a Tuesday, UN General Assembly members, acting as an ad hoc committee on Palestine, voted. The partition resolution passed the "committee" vote, twenty-five to thirteen with seventeen abstentions. However, this vote was one one short of the 2/3 majority that would be needed to pass the General Assembly itself.

The vote was postponed from Wednesday, giving the lobbyists Thursday, the Thanksgiving holiday, to change votes. The Arab countries exerted pressure against partition. Pressure from Zionists, US officials and former officials was brought to bear on countries that were intending to vote against partition. Greece was threatened with loss of foreign aid. Apparently on the prompting of former Secretary of State Stettinus, tire manufacturer Harvey Firestone threatened Liberia with a rubber embargo. Paraguay, the Philippines, Haiti and other countries reversed their positions and voted for partition. Though newspapers accused State Department officials of acting against partition, at least some State department officials were directly involved in lobbying for it. Dean Rusk, head of the State Department's UN desk in Washington, later wrote, "when President Truman decided to support partition, I worked hard to implement it....The pressure and arm-twisting applied by American and Jewish representatives in capital after capital to get that affirmative vote are hard to describe." The vote was again postponed to Saturday November 29, one more day, at the request of the Arabs. Greece voted against partition anyway, but other countries changed their vote. The partition resolution was duly passed.

As soon as the resolution passed however, the State Department went to work systematically to undo it. The Palestine problem was dwarfed by the problems arising in Eastern Europe and the Mediterranean, where country after country was falling under Soviet influence. The US was demobilizing rapidly and had to decide whether to maintain a military footing to counter the USSR, and to face the possibility of another war, that would increase US dependence on Arab oil. Truman was deluged with memoranda about the situation in Poland, in Czechoslovakia, in Greece, as well as with the Palestine question. The Presidential staff in those days was tiny, and Truman had to read each and every one of these documents.

Palestine was a side show, so the State Department could act more or less independently in many ways, and despite official support for partition, most State Department officials remained opposed. On December 5, the US declared an arms embargo in the Middle East, which prevented the Jews from getting arms, but did not affect contracts of the Arab states with Great Britain. The stand of President Truman on this embargo is unclear. Having withdrawn the means of defense, the State Department then tried to prove that the Jews would not be able to defend themselves in case of Arab attack. A secret memo on December 17 called for the US to renounce partition as impractical and asked that the US should convene a special session of the UN General Assembly to work out a "middle of the road" solution that would win support from Jews and Arabs. If this would be impossible, the US should favor a trusteeship plan, an idea that was favored by Loy Henderson, and that had been incubated for several months in the State Department.


http://www.mideastweb.org/us_supportforstate.htm
March 7th, 2005  
rocco
 
Quote:
Ariel Sharon, have done or will do in the future. We should remember his participation in the massacres of Sabra and Shatila
not a single israeli participated in the massacres. it was only christian lebanese getting revenge for the thousands massacred by yasser arafat and his goons

the lebanon invasion began as a total success, staying there was what costed lives... but it is a totally justified war, as the PLO and syrian backers allowed terrorists to cross from lebanon into israel to commit murder terrorism and kidnapping over a long time... remember arafat came to lebanon after he was kicked out of jordan for doing the same thing

sharon has not done nothing of the sort you have claimed...

:sarcasm: oh and great link... :/sarcasm:
March 7th, 2005  
Corocotta
 
 
Well, i think he had a lot of responsability. read this:

http://www.sabra-shatila.be/english/

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2255902.stm

http://www.indictsharon.net/

http://www.counterpunch.org/thomson0918.html

http://www.globalissues.org/Geopolit.../faq/Sabra.asp


Do you still think he was not responsable?? Come on!!!!!
March 7th, 2005  
rocco
 
the only responsibility he had was not realising that the christian lebanese were just as savage as the muslim lebanese and that they wanted revenge... as for direct responsibility any normal non anti-semite will know the answer tot hat