Split: Who started the Arab-Israeli Conflict - Page 2




 
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Boots
 
March 4th, 2005  
Charge 7
 
 
Watch out, Redleg. First the US, now Israel, after your post above I'm betting Norway's next on Stereoflakes hit parade.
March 4th, 2005  
Corocotta
 
 
Well i can not find the page where i got that information, but i send you another one wich talks about the same stuff:

http://www.answers.com/topic/king-david-hotel-bombing

http://www.cpa.org.au/garchve5/1089cult.html

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/2/21/13333/6302
March 4th, 2005  
Whispering Death
 
 
IT'S AMERICA IT'S ALWAYS AMERICA'S FAULT!
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Boots
March 4th, 2005  
Snauhi
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whispering Death
IT'S AMERICA IT'S ALWAYS AMERICA'S FAULT!

YES AND VANATUS!
March 4th, 2005  
MontyB
 
 
If we are laying blame I would be more inclined to say its the UN's fault with Britain not far behind.
March 4th, 2005  
chewie_nz
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MontyB
If we are laying blame I would be more inclined to say its the UN's fault with Britain not far behind.
i'd say that their intentions were good, but you can't just create a new counrty out of thin air, somebody will be displaced and that somebody is going to get angry.....but then again, what was the alternative???
March 4th, 2005  
MontyB
 
 
But thats the point, you just cant give away someone elses land to appease some dodgy 2000+ year old biblical claim from a bunch of disaffected europeans.

The answer was for the British/UN to hung around in control until such time as an equitable resolution could be found, after all until the end of the second world war Arabs and Jews had lived in Palestine in relative harmony.
March 5th, 2005  
Damien435
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MontyB
If we are laying blame I would be more inclined to say its the UN's fault with Britain not far behind.
I am gonna go the opposite, mainly Britain's fault (much like the problems in Africa) with the UN in a very, very close second. The main problem was that the UN did not consult the Arabs, if they had asked I am willing to bet the Arabs would have agreed, but as it is, the West did not ask, just told them to suck it up. Well the Arabs tried to destroy Israel, less than 48 hours after Israel declared independence they were simultaneously attacked by six Arab nations. Israel has always fascinated me, against the odds they have managed to pull through and utterly destroy their enemies, well that is probably going a little to far, but look at Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon, Syria, and the West Bank in comparison, most of these nations are now poor, third world countries and Lebanon used to be the backing center of the Middle East. This is not the fault of either the Jews or the Palestines, this is not really anybodies fault, it is just unfortunate how things turned out.
March 5th, 2005  
SHERMAN
 
 
alright, lets start. I will beguin with staurofilakes post and than later on reach the rest of you.

Alright. staurofilakes, your post was full of incidents in which Jews carried out attcks on arabs. At first I meant to ansawer each incident in its own, But i decided to do cataghories instead. Non the less, let me start with your first paragraph:

Quote:
Soon after the end of World War II, there were three basic para-military Zionist organizations in Palestine, working against the Arab people, with the specific purpose of driving it out of Palestine. These were the Haganah, the Irgun Zvai Leumi and the Stern Gang.

Before the British Mandate, the Jewish settlers had formed a group of mounted armed watchmen called "Hashomar" and with the advent of the British Mandate, it became the Haganah (Defense). With a membership of 60,000 Zionist Jews, the Haganah had a field army of 16,000 trained men and a unit called the Palmach, which was a full-time force, numbering about 6000.
That is partly incorrect. Non of these organizations ever set out to drive the arabs out of Palestine. These organizations were focused on three main things:

1- Defending the ewsih population against Arab attacks- the Arab attacks on the Jews in Palestine started in the early 1920'. In 1919 the first major Skermish oocured in Tel Hai, when Arabs attacked a small Jewsih village and killed 8 men and women in a firefight. In 1920 Arab unrest continued to grow, and so the members of Hashomer( A small organizationj for protecting the Jewish population, the name meanning "The Guard"), and ex-members of the Jewish Regiments(who fought with the British against the Germans in WWI) to build a new organization. Hagana(Defense) was formed, meant purly for defense. It consisted mostly of farmers that at times of trouble took arms to protect them selves. Hagana never attacked any arab village with the purpose of taking it, before the the Internal war of 1947-1948.

2- Illigal immigration. After WWII the British maintained their policy of restricted immigration. This meant that houndreds of thousends of Jews who wanted to return to their homeland wre literally traped on europe(which in their eyes was a massive slaughterhouse). Haggana smuggled these people in.

3-Irgun and Stern Gang did set out to "Bomb the brits out". They thought the the only wy to make the British leave is by force. However, they acted mostly againstm ilitary targets.

So, no one set out to drive the arabs away from Palestine.


You continued to specify a long list of Jewsih attacks on arabs. I have a few problems with that list:
*It includes oly the events themselves and not the backround.
*While you set out to proove that the Jews started the violence, you failed in two ways. firstly, your list beguins in the 30s, while Arab violence started in the 20s. In 1921 and 1929 there were very harsh Arab riots, in which dozens of Jews were killed and many more uprooted. Whole communeties were gforced to fle their homes. Secondly, many of the incidents are attacks on either British targets(unrelated to the Israel-Arab conflict) or attacks on proper military targets. You even specified the explosion of the SS Patria, which was not even an act of terror... The Hagana dident just blow up the ship out of a frenzy. The British were about to send the Ship to Cyprus where the Jews were to be sent to prison camps. The Hagana meant to delay thsi, but an error in the amountof explosives caused a tragedy.
*Some of the things on that list are during the internal war in Palestine, when the Arab and Jewish populations were at each others throat. When you say "attacked a village", you fail to mention that Arab villagers launched their young men to attack Jews on a daily basis. Hence villages were military objectives.


Now, many of the things you mentiond were done by Irgun and the Stern Gang. This were not, as ou presentedit , offshoots of Hagana. Hagana had a Socialist agenda, while these were hardcore Capitalists. They hated Hagana and hagana hated them. Most of the Jewish population supported Hagana. Hagana pleeded with these organizations to stop their attacks on civilian targets, and when they refused Hagana turned many of them over to the British(in a period known as "Sezon"). The general publc did not agree with their attacks, infact some Jews were killed in a few of their more agressive operations. Even these people, who I agree were bordering between freedom fightin and terrorisem, usually warned the British before attacks. Even in the King David tragedy they called the British and told them a bomb was placed in the building. But the British ignored their warning.

As to your claimes about the uprooting of the Arab population...Well, the Arabs did run away. And Israel was not displeased by that. But they were not forced to leave. The only source that ever asked them to leave were the Arab armies who told the Arabs in palestine to get out of the way for a few weeks. They said that once they killed all the Jews, they will let the Arab-Palestinians back in. As to them being forced to live in refugeecamps, these camps were in Arab countrys. These countrys did not allow the Palestinians to intgrate into their society, because they feared instebilty. They prefered to keep the Palestinians as refugees and blame Israel.

As to your claims about Jaffa...Well, I cant say if its true or not. It might be.. But it was never Israeli policy and people caught with loot were treated harshly.
March 5th, 2005  
Corocotta
 
 
I do not know who began the violence, i donīt really care. With my post I was just trying to say that the palestinias hevenīt been the only terrorist in Palestina. Until Israel was a State they also practiced the terrorism. I think that the problem was to create Israel and do not give a solution to palestinian problem.