Split from ISIS thread - Page 6




 
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Boots
 
May 21st, 2019  
MontyB
 
 
It was pretty general but I didn't see any mistakes.
4 Weeks Ago  
lljadw
 
Today's liberals are not supporters of small government ( Beveridge : the man of the welfare state was a liberal ),neither do they support freedom of religion .
Free Market : there was only one fascist state,Italy, and there was free market in Italy : free market and autarky/protectionism do not exclude each other .
Free market is not Free Trade .
4 Weeks Ago  
I3BrigPvSk
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lljadw
Today's liberals are not supporters of small government ( Beveridge : the man of the welfare state was a liberal ),neither do they support freedom of religion .
Free Market : there was only one fascist state,Italy, and there was free market in Italy : free market and autarky/protectionism do not exclude each other .
Free market is not Free Trade .
Beveridge was a social liberal, inspired by Keynes and Beveridge was working on how to get Britain out of the recession caused by the Second World War. Britain was close to bankruptcy after the war. The Labour party picked up some of his ideas, but that doesn't make him a socialist.

Franco's Spain, the military juntas in South America were very much fascist states. Even Japan prior and during the Second World War fills into that category as well. You really need to read more about the fascistic economy, it was influenced by the socialist economy. The means of productions were owned by private corporations, but they couldn't decide what to produce nor who they could hire. The same with the educational institutions (universities) A totalitarian state doesn't allow the universities to scientifically study and to educate those admitted to their universities and colleges.

The free trade is a part of the free market
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Boots
4 Weeks Ago  
I3BrigPvSk
 
 
Btw, How many of you believe in what a few goat herders/fishermen/carpenters wrote for about two thousand years ago? Did Jesus really exist? Did Mohammed really exist? Do we have any independent sources that confirm their existence? (not the Bible, the Torah, and the Quran)

I know the Torah is supposed to be older....You eligible to believe whatever fairy tale you want, but your fairy tales aren't true and that makes the difference. I might offend some people now and to that I say....so fxxking what?
4 Weeks Ago  
lljadw
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by I3BrigPvSk
Beveridge was a social liberal, inspired by Keynes and Beveridge was working on how to get Britain out of the recession caused by the Second World War. Britain was close to bankruptcy after the war. The Labour party picked up some of his ideas, but that doesn't make him a socialist.

Franco's Spain, the military juntas in South America were very much fascist states. Even Japan prior and during the Second World War fills into that category as well. You really need to read more about the fascistic economy, it was influenced by the socialist economy. The means of productions were owned by private corporations, but they couldn't decide what to produce nor who they could hire. The same with the educational institutions (universities) A totalitarian state doesn't allow the universities to scientifically study and to educate those admitted to their universities and colleges.

The free trade is a part of the free market
Beveridge was the father of the Welfare State ,and also a liberal : this proves that the claim thatliberals supported small government,is wrong,because welfare state means big government . That Britain was bankrupt after the war is irrelevant, as this did not cause the welfare state .
Franco Spain was not fascist: the Spanish variant of Italian fascism (the Falange ) was eliminated by Franco .
Totalitarian states do allow scientifical studies at universities : in Germany, a lot of scientist were studying at the universities .
Free trade is not a part of the free market : during the depression,free trade was replaced by protectionism, but free market still existed .
After the war,and still today, liberalism dominates Britain : Cameron, a Tory, led a progressive coalition with the liberal party . ''progressive coalition '' were his own words .
The liberal British governments forbade and still forbid religious schools to teach creationism and oblige them to teach the evolution theory of Darwin .
This is a direct attack on the freedom of religion .
There is also the Fair Admission Campaign, obliging religious schools to admit non religious students and students of other religions .
This also is a direct attack on the freedom of religion .
In Canada ,the liberal government of Trudeau is attacking the right of christians to demonstrate for religious reasons .
That fascist economy was influenced by socialist economy is irrelevant,as the liberal capitalist economy also was and is influenced by socialist economy .
In Franco Spain, railways were owned by the state, but that does not prove that Franco Spain was economically socialist or fascist : in the US railways are also owned by the state, as in Germany ans in Belgium .
There is no such thing as a fascist economy .
Mussolini had some economic theories, but these were very fast abandoned faced by reality . After all,fascism ruled in Italy and ideologies are not very important in Italy .
4 Weeks Ago  
I3BrigPvSk
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lljadw
Beveridge was the father of the Welfare State ,and also a liberal : this proves that the claim thatliberals supported small government,is wrong,because welfare state means big government . That Britain was bankrupt after the war is irrelevant, as this did not cause the welfare state .
Franco Spain was not fascist: the Spanish variant of Italian fascism (the Falange ) was eliminated by Franco .
Totalitarian states do allow scientifical studies at universities : in Germany, a lot of scientist were studying at the universities .
Free trade is not a part of the free market : during the depression,free trade was replaced by protectionism, but free market still existed .
After the war,and still today, liberalism dominates Britain : Cameron, a Tory, led a progressive coalition with the liberal party . ''progressive coalition '' were his own words .
The liberal British governments forbade and still forbid religious schools to teach creationism and oblige them to teach the evolution theory of Darwin .
This is a direct attack on the freedom of religion .
There is also the Fair Admission Campaign, obliging religious schools to admit non religious students and students of other religions .
This also is a direct attack on the freedom of religion .
In Canada ,the liberal government of Trudeau is attacking the right of christians to demonstrate for religious reasons .
That fascist economy was influenced by socialist economy is irrelevant,as the liberal capitalist economy also was and is influenced by socialist economy .
In Franco Spain, railways were owned by the state, but that does not prove that Franco Spain was economically socialist or fascist : in the US railways are also owned by the state, as in Germany ans in Belgium .
There is no such thing as a fascist economy .
Mussolini had some economic theories, but these were very fast abandoned faced by reality . After all,fascism ruled in Italy and ideologies are not very important in Italy .
He suggested it in a time period without any safety net at all. He wasn't the creator of it. Bismarck was, but there is a difference between them, though. Beveridge was a social liberal, but he wasn't a socialist. He wanted to keep the means of production within the private sector. The Labour party picked it up and won the election. Fascistic economy relation to socialistic economy isn't irrelevant, maybe in your mind it is. You need to read more even things that contradict your own perceptions.

Only because universities exist in totalitarian states don't make them independent from state. When the state doesn't have any influence on what the university does, that makes the science much better. With saying that, the Soviet Union had really good universities that achieved great things, but they weren't allowed to practice one important thing. The critical thinking.

So now we have a liberal market economy, a few days ago we didn't. It's good if the British schools don't teach things unsupported by the reality, they do in their history courses at the universities. The Limey's have really good universities. You should sign up for their courses.
4 Weeks Ago  
lljadw
 
There is essentially no difference between the intervention of the British Government in the programs of Religious schools and the decision of the Liberal Canadian governmednt to block all funding of religious organisations who are opposed to abortion .
Both decisions prove that the Liberals want a big government, a secularisation policy which is hostile to religion and that they are attacking not only religious freedom but the foundations of western society = freedom of speech .
Attacks on critical thinking are attacks on the freedom of speech .
About a liberal market economy : such a thing does not exist : we have in the west a market economy (limited by interventions from liberal governments ) .
It is also not correct to say that British ,US, ..universities are independent from the state .
The truth is the following :
Western societies are governed by liberal governments AND there is today much more state intervention than in the past . More state intervention means more power for the government and less freedom for the people .
Thhus, liberalism is doing what socialism is doing and difference between both is only semantic .
4 Weeks Ago  
lljadw
 
On July 16 2010 the leader of the British Liberal and Democrats ,Nick Clegg, wrote the following in ''Liberalism in government ''.

It is not the size of the state that matters, but what the state does .
Every socialist would agree with him .
Clegg is advocating big government to impose liberal ideas .
The difference between liberalism and socialism is only theory, in reality ,both do the same : increase government to impose their ideas .
4 Weeks Ago  
MontyB
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by I3BrigPvSk
He suggested it in a time period without any safety net at all. He wasn't the creator of it. Bismarck was, but there is a difference between them, though. Beveridge was a social liberal, but he wasn't a socialist. He wanted to keep the means of production within the private sector. The Labour party picked it up and won the election. Fascistic economy relation to socialistic economy isn't irrelevant, maybe in your mind it is. You need to read more even things that contradict your own perceptions.

Only because universities exist in totalitarian states don't make them independent from state. When the state doesn't have any influence on what the university does, that makes the science much better. With saying that, the Soviet Union had really good universities that achieved great things, but they weren't allowed to practice one important thing. The critical thinking.

So now we have a liberal market economy, a few days ago we didn't. It's good if the British schools don't teach things unsupported by the reality, they do in their history courses at the universities. The Limey's have really good universities. You should sign up for their courses.
It always amuses me that the father of the welfare state was Bismarck.

I don't know where I fall in the spectrum of socialist/liberal and government, I don't support large government I believe the role of government is to provide the guidelines for growth but not direct it (for example with regard to power I believe government should set emissions requirement and then leave it to business to meet those limits which means I support coal fired power plants as long as they meet emissions requirements), I am pro-death penalty but I believe in our social welfare system (albeit a more controlled version of it) on the whole I think I am a right-wing socialist.
4 Weeks Ago  
I3BrigPvSk
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MontyB
It always amuses me that the father of the welfare state was Bismarck.

I don't know where I fall in the spectrum of socialist/liberal and government, I don't support large government I believe the role of government is to provide the guidelines for growth but not direct it (for example with regard to power I believe government should set emissions requirement and then leave it to business to meet those limits which means I support coal fired power plants as long as they meet emissions requirements), I am pro-death penalty but I believe in our social welfare system (albeit a more controlled version of it) on the whole I think I am a right-wing socialist.
I support governments leaving some decisions to its citizens. Governments are implementing laws and regulations, they are also enforcing those laws and regulations. There were/are instances when car manufacturers were/are not completely honest about the emissions from their cars.

There are instances when governments are intervening directly into what usually are left to the private actors. They do that during recessions and start infrastructure projects to get people back to work.

The new abortion laws have caused reactions. I believe in leaving the decision about abortion to the woman. It's her body and her life.

The climate change is interesting, it is very polarized between those who believe we are causing it and those who don't. This planet has experienced several climate changes during its existence (about 4.6 Billion years) Life on it has been here for about 3 billion years. These climate changes have caused mass extinctions, the most famous one is the End-Cretaceous 66 mya, but it wasn't the worst one. That one occurred 251 mya (End- Permian) and it seems a massive volcanic eruption caused the death of 75% of all species on land and 95% of all ocean living species. There are indications of we are in the sixth mass extinction now.
 


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