"Speak English"

Should the sign be taken down?

  • Yes

    Votes: 4 17.4%
  • No

    Votes: 19 82.6%

  • Total voters
    23
"Further I could give a red p**s about what sign a business owner hangs in his place of business. It's his business he can run it however he wants". -USMC03

I don't disagree, however the owner could stand to learn a few lessons in tact. The condescending tone of the sign really wasn't necessary, he could have said what he said without humiliating the Spanish speaking community. "No hablo Espanol" would have been enough.
 
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I think its just respectful to the host nation to atleast know a few phrases even if you are the best at spaking it.
 
If someone wants to run a business by his rules, let them work for the money to finance and operate one of his own.
 
"Further I could give a red p**s about what sign a business owner hangs in his place of business. It's his business he can run it however he wants". -USMC03

I don't disagree, however the owner could stand to learn a few lessons in tact. The condescending tone of the sign really wasn't necessary, he could have said what he said without humiliating the Spanish speaking community. "No hablo Espanol" would have been enough.

I think this is a pretty good point.
 
Mandatory? No. Tolerant of those who cannot speak English? Yes.

BTW. One reason I got hired at one job was BECAUSE I spoke a foreign language, not because i didn't.

This discussion really didn´t need more then this IMHO.

In our country english is a mandatory subject in schools from the age of 10.
Thus a large portion of the people are bilingual, at the age of 14 you have the option of learning a third language in school as well.
I have never found it very hard to learn enough of languages to make myself atleast somewhat understood by the locals.

Having said that.
If an american citizen ventured to visit my nation I would appreciate the gesture of trying to learn atleast a few phrases of our language.
If not I would not deny him assistance if he asked me for it in another language.
But maybe that´s just my take on common curtesy.

//KJ.
 
"Further I could give a red p**s about what sign a business owner hangs in his place of business. It's his business he can run it however he wants". -USMC03

I don't disagree, however the owner could stand to learn a few lessons in tact. The condescending tone of the sign really wasn't necessary, he could have said what he said without humiliating the Spanish speaking community. "No hablo Espanol" would have been enough.


Where is the condescension? Where is it putting another person down by words or deeds? Where is it making one person feel like another has superiority? Reread exactly what was on the sign and then reread the definition. This is one simple statement: "This is America, when ordering speak english."

Now on to the other portion: Where was the Hispanic/Latino/<insert favorite PC label here> community humiliated? This is about the english language. Seems to me you and many others are jumping to conclusions this is/was directed solely at the spanish speaking populace. That smacks of racism and/or racial profiling. But of course none of you probably think you are racist in any extreme because you think this guy should take his sign down. Just food for thought.

If a person wants to get offended by something just come on down to where I work. I assure you that you will be offended all day long and I won't have to say a single word to you or about you. I am about as smooth as 60 grit sandpaper.

If you wish to be humiliated then go stand in the middle of the "City of Brotherly Love" or "Birthplace of America" aka Philadelphia, PA and beg for change or a handout so you can get some food. That would be humiliation. The sad thing is the guy at that store would likely feed you regardless if you spoke english or not. Yet people are trying to stomp on his right to say what he wants even when it offends others. I believe we covered this topic in another thread. If I am not mistaken some of those saying the signs need to be removed/reworded are/were the biggest proponents for letting a person speak their mind with few or no limitations.

Where was the Constitution written? Oh yeah, Philadelphia, PA. Remarkable how the birthplace of the US Constitution forgets simple things like the 1st Amendment.
 
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Having said that.
If an american citizen ventured to visit my nation I would appreciate the gesture of trying to learn atleast a few phrases of our language.
If not I would not deny him assistance if he asked me for it in another language.
But maybe that´s just my take on common curtesy.

//KJ.

I agree on that, but I don't think the sign was necessary. And if it were, it could have been put in a nicer way.
Maybe I'll go there and fart my guts out... hey no sign about farting is there?
I think I know how to say the basic phrases for just about every country I've visited except Greece and Denmark.
 
Just me but I don't find the sign to be racist.

Here's the thing. Everyone has the right to frequent or not frequent the business. If the sign offends someone then eat somewhere else.
 
Much ado about nothing.

Could he have phrased the sign differently? Of course. He COULD have put a sign up that said "No smoking" or "This is America: We don't serve drunk people."

It's political correctness once again run a muck. Every time anyone so much as utters "English only" the minority crowd deals the racism card, and it's a tired argument to be sure.

I'm getting really sick at everyone being offended at everything all the time. Grow some short hairs and stop getting offended. Take a walk, have a beer, get laid... Do something. Constantly looking for bad in the world, you're sure to find it.

He should be able to leave it up in whatever verbiage he chose to put on it. This is none of big brother's business. Sure, I give you that it does come off as being rude, but what many do not understand is just how peed off *some* of us Americans are at the illegal immigration issue this country faces. We're telling the government to close the borders, and they are looking at us like WE are the ones talking in another language. Greek, perhaps. Or maybe because most of us choose not to lie we actually ARE talking in another language to a politician.

*Shrug*

20 million invaders every year. Not all of them are Latino, so I am making no blanket statement. Our culture is being invaded every bit as though this was a war - just a war without shooting at each other.

And many of us are just fed up with it. As all of you know, when you get upset your patterns of please and thank you and being all nice-nice tend to lapse.

Want to blame someone for the way the sign is worded? Then you have to assign EQUAL blame: Owner for writing it, government for ignoring the issue that led to it, and the illegals that are the direct cause of it.

And before I get accused: I don't have a bigoted bone in my body. I adore most of the Mexican people, in fact, and I honestly enjoy interacting with cultures of all types. I'm just sick and tired of MY culture not being respected.

Want respect? Give respect.
 
I'm suprised all of you haven't mention about the sign languages, yet, since they are considered the foreign languages, so, try not to forget about it, though.

I'm a bilingual in fluently English/ASL (American Sign Language); I'm not really sure about the sign, "Speak English only," since most of the deaf Americans aren't good at the speech skills but they can read in English, and doesn't speak properly or not. Well, think about that.

It took me about ten years to speak well in English with a speech therapist since I'm a profoundly deaf with a cochlear implants, it wasn't easy at all.
 
Where is the condescension? Where is it putting another person down by words or deeds? Where is it making one person feel like another has superiority? Reread exactly what was on the sign and then reread the definition. This is one simple statement: "This is America, when ordering speak english."

Now on to the other portion: Where was the Hispanic/Latino/<insert favorite PC label here> community humiliated? This is about the english language. Seems to me you and many others are jumping to conclusions this is/was directed solely at the spanish speaking populace. That smacks of racism and/or racial profiling. But of course none of you probably think you are racist in any extreme because you think this guy should take his sign down. Just food for thought.

If a person wants to get offended by something just come on down to where I work. I assure you that you will be offended all day long and I won't have to say a single word to you or about you. I am about as smooth as 60 grit sandpaper.

If you wish to be humiliated then go stand in the middle of the "City of Brotherly Love" or "Birthplace of America" aka Philadelphia, PA and beg for change or a handout so you can get some food. That would be humiliation. The sad thing is the guy at that store would likely feed you regardless if you spoke english or not. Yet people are trying to stomp on his right to say what he wants even when it offends others. I believe we covered this topic in another thread. If I am not mistaken some of those saying the signs need to be removed/reworded are/were the biggest proponents for letting a person speak their mind with few or no limitations.

Where was the Constitution written? Oh yeah, Philadelphia, PA. Remarkable how the birthplace of the US Constitution forgets simple things like the 1st Amendment.
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MarinerRhodes

First of all, a correction. I never said the sign was racist, nor that he should take his sign down, nor did I vote that way in the poll. For the purposes of the running of the business I can understand why its there (although I think the owner is an IDIOT and that he has HURT his business rather than help).

My only point is that he could have rephrased in a way that was less insulting, and as you can see, People did take offense to it. Its particular stupid thing to do when your a small business whose trying to convince people to spend THEIR money at YOUR establishment while the competition is literally across the street -without the bad attitude. Not exactly a smart business move IMHO. With his sign the Owner is saying "I'm a xenophobic jerk, so all you Latinos please buy your sandwich at the competition, which is just across the street!!!"

But lets look at the sign itself: "This is America, speak English".

My mother has lived 35 years in the USA and speaks with a heavy French accent. If anyone ever spoke to my mother like that I would have done my utmost to force my fist into the back of that persons skull.

Why would I do that? Well first of all, notice the absence of the most basic forms of courtesy namely "please" and "thank you". Look at other signs in public resterants "Please Wash your hands" , "Please wait to be Seated" etc. I mean its the most basic of human etiquette. And its absence was deliberate to send a signal to certain minorities.

Mission Accomplished, not only will they no longer visit the owners shop, they also sued him. And it doesnt matter if he wins the case. He has already lost in the long run. Because now potential customers will go elsewhere and you have spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on legal fees and all of this for a stupid sign. Had I had been the owner and this shop a franchise I would hired a Spainish speaking worker (or 2) and I would have fired the manager for his poor management skills. When I worked computer retail, my boss fired the assistant manager for treating customers like dirt. We lost a lot of business because of him.

Secondly the fact that the sign has to say "this is America...", I mean of course this is America, what country did the reader think he was in? Uzbekistan? That too is Patronizing and its deliberately targeted who are not Natives. You don't feel that way because your not a foreigner, but if you ever tried to live permanently in another country you can be made to standout if you don't adhere to strict cultural standards.

It happened to me.

I once got chewed out in a store in Paris because I said "TU" instead of "VOUS" to the salesperson. They both mean the samething, but its an insult if you use "TU" in the wrong context and they guy didn't care that I was an American whose French grammer wasn't so great. So I can sympathize with why Latinos might get upset with this sort of thing.

Its rude, its insensetive, and from a business standpoint its stupid. The 1st Amendment allows you act like an a**hole, but it doesn't suggest that you should. Therin lies the difference.
 
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MarinerRhodes

First of all, a correction. I never said the sign was racist, nor that he should take his sign down, nor did I vote that way in the poll. For the purposes of the running of the business I can understand why its there (although I think the owner is an IDIOT and that he has HURT his business rather than help).

My only point is that he could have rephrased in a way that was less insulting, and as you can see, People did take offense to it. Its particular stupid thing to do when your a small business whose trying to convince people to spend THEIR money at YOUR establishment while the competition is literally across the street -without the bad attitude. Not exactly a smart business move IMHO. With his sign the Owner is saying "I'm a xenophobic jerk, so all you Latinos please buy your sandwich at the competition, which is just across the street!!!"

But lets look at the sign itself: "This is America, speak English".

My mother has lived 35 years in the USA and speaks with a heavy French accent. If anyone ever spoke to my mother like that I would have done my utmost to force my fist into the back of that persons skull.

Why would I do that? Well first of all, notice the absence of the most basic forms of courtesy namely "please" and "thank you". Look at other signs in public resterants "Please Wash your hands" , "Please wait to be Seated" etc. I mean its the most basic of human etiquette. And its absence was deliberate to send a signal to certain minorities.

Mission Accomplished, not only will they no longer visit the owners shop, they also sued him. And it doesnt matter if he wins the case. He has already lost in the long run. Because now potential customers will go elsewhere and you have spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on legal fees and all of this for a stupid sign. Had I had been the owner and this shop a franchise I would hired a Spainish speaking worker (or 2) and I would have fired the manager for his poor management skills. When I worked computer retail, my boss fired the assistant manager for treating customers like dirt. We lost a lot of business because of him.

Secondly the fact that the sign has to say "this is America...", I mean of course this is America, what country did the reader think he was in? Uzbekistan? That too is Patronizing and its deliberately targeted who are not Natives. You don't feel that way because your not a foreigner, but if you ever tried to live permanently in another country you can be made to standout if you don't adhere to strict cultural standards.

It happened to me.

I once got chewed out in a store in Paris because I said "TU" instead of "VOUS" to the salesperson. They both mean the samething, but its an insult if you use "TU" in the wrong context and they guy didn't care that I was an American whose French grammer wasn't so great. So I can sympathize with why Latinos might get upset with this sort of thing.

Its rude, its insensetive, and from a business standpoint its stupid. The 1st Amendment allows you act like an a**hole, but it doesn't suggest that you should. Therin lies the difference.


You are the one that keeps bringing in the Latino community. Why would they be the only ones to be offended? That is racism my friend, however large or small an issue it may be. I mean there are others in the USA that can not speak english well or at all and they are not Latino. Isn't that what this is about? Mountains out of molehills? Taking a small turn of phrase or word and making it into something it isn't or doesn't have to be?

One thing to Note. The sign said: "This is America, when ordering speak english." Not: "This is America, Speak english."

We should look at the time and efforts, not to mention taxpayers money, that the Philiadelphia Human Relations Commission spent just trying to get him to take this sign down. By the way, the lawsuit was dropped: http://www.onenewsnow.com/Business/Default.aspx?id=72427

The Philadelphia Human Relations Commission has ruled that Joey Vento has the right to make a political statement in posting a sign that reads: "This is America - When ordering, please speak English."

Vento had placed the sign in his famous Geno's Philly Cheese Steaks store in October 2005, and no complaints had been filed until the chairman of the Philadelphia Human Relations Commission filed one in June 2006. The complaint alleged that Vento's sign discriminated against those who could not speak English, even though Geno's had never refused service to anyone.

It seems that it isn't mainstream news now that the charges are dropped so I had a hard time finding (what I consider to be) a mainstream source.
 
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Its not racism its fact. The reason I keep mention Latinos is because they are the ones that brought the lawsuit thats why. If had been Asians I would have said Asians. And I know the case was dropped, thats not the point, the point was the owner could have easily avoided the entire situation, the fact he made no attempt to find a compromise tells you something...

You tell me, why could have he hung a Sign "We are sorry, but can only understand orders in English". I mean thats it, that all he had to do. Nobody would have taken offense to that.

The guy fault wasn't being a racist, it was being an a**hole. As I said, he needs a few lessons in tact.
 
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Not really. He runs Gino's down in Philly. I went there and he said that he's fine with them speaking it, just as long as they order their food in english. They are in America after all.
 
Not really. He runs Gino's down in Philly. I went there and he said that he's fine with them speaking it, just as long as they order their food in english. They are in America after all.

And I got no problem that he wants people to order in English. At issue is the way he communicated his message, (which was offensive and people took offense to) not the message itself.

And I prefer Pats King of Steaks (which is across the street).
 
Latinos did not bring the lawsuit. The chairman of the Human Relations Commission brought the lawsuit. No lawsuit nor complaints made up to that point.

I can easily avoid many situtations by not saying anything or by not doing anything. That does not mean I am right nor does it mean I am wrong. it just means I lack the commitment to my convictions. Apparently this gentleman thought enough of his ideals and stood by his convictions to spend the money and have the sign made. If more people did the same I can almost guarantee you would see much more of this type of thing.

Why would he have to say "We are sorry" ? Does he have to apologize for not being able to speak another language? I mean how far does one have to go to be able to say what they mean without having to walk on eggshells for fear of offending someone?

We all have our ideas of politeness. I feel this is just plain asinine that this even went so far as a lawsuit.
 
I can easily avoid many situtations by not saying anything or by not doing anything. That does not mean I am right nor does it mean I am wrong. it just means I lack the commitment to my convictions. Apparently this gentleman thought enough of his ideals and stood by his convictions to spend the money and have the sign made. If more people did the same I can almost guarantee you would see much more of this type of thing.

Not so sure about that as most businesses realise that a dollar is a dollar whether it comes from someone speaking English, Italian, Serbian or Spanish is less important.

My personal opinion on this issue though is that the sign is a political statement more than a sign for informational purposes.
 
Not so sure about that as most businesses realise that a dollar is a dollar whether it comes from someone speaking English, Italian, Serbian or Spanish is less important.

My personal opinion on this issue though is that the sign is a political statement more than a sign for informational purposes.

And that being said we get back to the 1st Amendment rights. Or am I wrong?
 
Latinos did not bring the lawsuit. The chairman of the Human Relations Commission brought the lawsuit. No lawsuit nor complaints made up to that point.

I can easily avoid many situtations by not saying anything or by not doing anything. That does not mean I am right nor does it mean I am wrong. it just means I lack the commitment to my convictions. Apparently this gentleman thought enough of his ideals and stood by his convictions to spend the money and have the sign made. If more people did the same I can almost guarantee you would see much more of this type of thing.

Why would he have to say "We are sorry" ? Does he have to apologize for not being able to speak another language? I mean how far does one have to go to be able to say what they mean without having to walk on eggshells for fear of offending someone?

We all have our ideas of politeness. I feel this is just plain asinine that this even went so far as a lawsuit.

Pretty much sums up my feelings as well.
 
And that being said we get back to the 1st Amendment rights. Or am I wrong?

Indeed you do but then those it is aimed at also get their say.

As others have already stated most businesses are clever enough not to get caught up in this sort of thing, had he been a smarter businessman he would have kept his politics to himself.
 
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