Soviet advisors in Vietnam and terrorists.

bulldogg

Milforum's Bouncer
I have had the opportunity to befriend and engage in conversation an old soldier from the Russian far east who had served in Vietnam. He was an 'advisor' to the Hanoi government in the late 60's. He showed me pictures and scars and retold tales of his experiences. He expressed respect and admiration for the American troops for the way they conducted themselves on the battlefield. He cried when he recounted orders he obeyed that harmed POW's. But he became quite angry when he asked why the US government had abandoned so many troops that were still in enemy hands when they left in 1975. As a Russian he was glad the US lost, as a soldier he was angered at how these troops were treated.

He was quite candid about his desire back in the early 60's to hopefully go to war. He wanted his government to invade the US and end the "cold war" instead of the slow death. Now of course his opinion has changed. He still deeply distrusts the American government as well as his own but he wouldn't want to harm another human being for anything less than protecting himself, his family or his country from invasion.

We still have frequent conversations and I hope to write a book one day but it made me pause to think how many gung-ho troops of today are being turned into remorseful old men. And for what? The crisis and great evil of today is terrorism. Terror is the weapon of the weak employed against the invincible. When the legitimate troops of your nemesis are beyond harm, like those of the US, the enemy will strike where the beast is soft, civilians. Terrorism of today is the cold war of yesterday. Something easily avoided with the use of the brain and not the brawn. Terrorism against the US is a direct result of the illegal and secret activities of the pentagon through JCET et al and the CIA for the last 50 years.

The US has weakened the weak and further impoverished the poor through supporting oppressive governments and super austerity measures of the IMF and World Bank. And the only ones who don't know this are the Americans themselves, the victims in this have known all along. The memory of the oppressed is long and they are now hitting back from whence their pain came. And it is the soldiers who are dying for the ignorance of the masses.
 
Nice rhetoric looks good on you. But what's the whole point? Thats what I'd like to know.

Is it...........................................................................................

The US purposely abandoned POW's in SEA? Got any facts to back that up?

That the US thru Military Advisory Missions and with the aid of the CIA, NSA, DIA or whatever Alphabet Agency caused terrorism?

That if we just pour money into unfriendly,3rd and 4th world $#** holes that we can avert the threat of terrorism?
 
Since you two are now my biggest fans apparently I will say that it has several points. One is yes, American POWs were left behind in Southeast Asia and the US government knew about it. Furthermore it purposely slandered and silenced those who knew about it.

Into the Buzzsaw
ISBN 1-57392-972-7
Pages 223-246

Terrorism is the blowback from secret government actions around the globe.

The Sorrows of Empire
ISBN 0-80507-797-9

And the final point is my opinion that war is the failure of diplomacy similar in line with the thinking of Von Clausewitz's famous treatise on war.
 
You know I've spent a couple of hours researching the two sources provided above. And all I've got to say is. If you want to use those to support your position go ahead I'm not buying it.

Buzzsaw reeks of conspiracy theories directed at "poor noble journalists" :roll: And using PFC Garwood as a source a collaborator taints anything that maybe true. It's always been suspected that MIA/POW'S were held to extort the reparation payments they were hostages. Thats not a revelation...sorry. The theory has been around since the late 70's. Vietnam attempted to extort the US and failed to reparate POW's or account for MIA's they held. Thats what refusal of payment was about.

As far as Chalmers Johnson are you sure he didn't co authour with Jim Garrison? Come on Military Industrial Complex ! I find in humor that his theory that US bases or "Empire" based on bases causes the problem. Yeah all those bases we have in Syria, riiiiggggghhhttt.

I did laugh my 4th Point of Contact off when this Dweezeel opined that Marines of the 3rd MARDIV stationed on Okinowhere enjoyed a better quality of life than the Marines Stationed At Pendelton. Must have missed the Marine Corps Ritz at Hansen and Schwab during my trips to the Rock.
 
what i don't get is how can this person you have spoken with be angry at the US and what we did to our troops when he was the one treating POW's this way to begin with?
 
03, you can believe what you want. I know people who were in Vietnam I met at Firebase Indy back in the early 90's that tell this story and others far more treacherous in relation to the way the US government handled the MIA-POWS in Vietnam even prior to the 75 pull out. But name calling? :roll:

Starker, he was upset because of this. As he saw it following orders to torture prisoners into giving up vital intel was a legitmate activity. Much the same as what is rumoured and mildly substantiated to be happening in the "war on terror" today. But the abandoning of prisoners and claiming they were all accounted for was unpardonable. A treasonous act abandoning soldiers to rot away in enemy hands. That's why he cried.
 
bulldogg said:
03, you can believe what you want. I know people who were in Vietnam I met at Firebase Indy back in the early 90's that tell this story and others far more treacherous in relation to the way the US government handled the MIA-POWS in Vietnam even prior to the 75 pull out. But name calling? :roll:


Your right and I choose not to put much creedence in the sources you posted. In my opinion as I have stated they are slanted to a point of view you wish me to except at face value. Thats not gonna happen.

For future reference you do not have the corner on serving with Vietnam Veterans or "knowing" same.

As far as name calling ....My bad. But my opinion on Johnson stands. Especially in his take of the Marine Corps on Okinawa.
 
I had vietnam vet as a teacher who was involved in intel and interrogations, he thinks we left people behind. Probably Hanoi was keeping them because they didnt expect us to actually leave. After that I think it would have been too much of an embarrassment to be caught with them for the north. Its one of those great mysteries. One of the first things you wanna find out when you turn to dust
 
They were kept as collateral for the war debt we agreed to pay the North but then never did.

Further, 03, I reread both books by Chalmers Johnson and NO where in either book does he mention anything about bases in Syria, WTF are you going on about mate?
 
bulldogg said:
Further, 03, I reread both books by Chalmers Johnson and NO where in either book does he mention anything about bases in Syria, WTF are you going on about mate?


It's called sarcasm. Perhaps you've heard of it.
 
14Juliet said:
I had vietnam vet as a teacher who was involved in intel and interrogations, he thinks we left people behind. Probably Hanoi was keeping them because they didnt expect us to actually leave. After that I think it would have been too much of an embarrassment to be caught with them for the north. Its one of those great mysteries. One of the first things you wanna find out when you turn to dust
BFD, you had a teacher who is a VN vet. I know more than a few, in fact I am one. How exactly was your teacher "involved in intel and interrogation" and how does that give him any insight at all into the fate of American POWs? Explain please, I'm curious.
 
I remember reading about a raid that was going to take into North Vietnam. An American Spy plane over flying an area in North Vietnam photographed a series of letters and numbers trampled out in the grass. These letters and numbers corresponded to an American code armed with this information American troops started to practise for rescue mission, but all this had to be scrubbed when some one went of and told press all about the rescue mission who promptly printed in their newspaper, so the mission had to be cancelled, but it set of a chain of films and books. Not that this did the people left behind any good
 
At a Firebase Indy I attended with a friend in 1992 one of the hot topics being discussed was one that was being talked about by a vetted Navy seal who did two tours in vietnam. He was later denied his request to return to Vietnam when he was rotated out and couldnt cope. So he enlisted in the Marines and went back. He was captured and subsequesntly rescued by seals of his former team, some of whom were there at the firebase. He and his teammates were telling people of a mission which they received which was to infiltrate a position in border area with Laos and they were to terminate everyone in the 'village'. It turned out to be a camp where POWs were being held and rather than rescue them they were sent to kill them, they didnt, they brought them back alive. I called bullshit in quiet to my friend who as an SF medic with four years in Vietnam and he almost hit me. He became livid as he told me that this story was not bullshit and that his team had also received similar orders and knew of more people in the SF community who had also confirmed this was not a fluke. I wasn't there. I was never intel or SF but these men who were are quite adamant about their claims. Dtop, you were there, what's your take on it?
 
bulldogg said:
At a Firebase Indy I attended with a friend in 1992 one of the hot topics being discussed was one that was being talked about by a vetted Navy seal who did two tours in vietnam. He was later denied his request to return to Vietnam when he was rotated out and couldnt cope. So he enlisted in the Marines and went back. He was captured and subsequesntly rescued by seals of his former team, some of whom were there at the firebase. He and his teammates were telling people of a mission which they received which was to infiltrate a position in border area with Laos and they were to terminate everyone in the 'village'. It turned out to be a camp where POWs were being held and rather than rescue them they were sent to kill them, they didnt, they brought them back alive. I called bullsh*t in quiet to my friend who as an SF medic with four years in Vietnam and he almost hit me. He became livid as he told me that this story was not bullsh*t and that his team had also received similar orders and knew of more people in the SF community who had also confirmed this was not a fluke. I wasn't there. I was never intel or SF but these men who were are quite adamant about their claims. Dtop, you were there, what's your take on it?

Was this guy a movie script writer as well?

If it this was true, it would have been the biggest scandal of the Vietnam war - not only back in the US but amongst its own troops. Now, if you wanted to waste a whole village and you didn't want anyone bought back, you do it through a process where no-one is going to recognise anybody - and that would be a bomber with a gutful of BF bombs. Afterwards apologise for the accidental transgression over the border.

Maybe we could next chat about the Kennedy assasination or the Apollo landing conspiracy - and they must be true because....someone said so.

<Filed under BS>
 
bulldogg said:
At a Firebase Indy I attended with a friend in 1992 one of the hot topics being discussed was one that was being talked about by a vetted Navy seal who did two tours in vietnam. He was later denied his request to return to Vietnam when he was rotated out and couldnt cope. So he enlisted in the Marines and went back. He was captured and subsequesntly rescued by seals of his former team, some of whom were there at the firebase. He and his teammates were telling people of a mission which they received which was to infiltrate a position in border area with Laos and they were to terminate everyone in the 'village'. It turned out to be a camp where POWs were being held and rather than rescue them they were sent to kill them, they didnt, they brought them back alive. I called bullsh*t in quiet to my friend who as an SF medic with four years in Vietnam and he almost hit me. He became livid as he told me that this story was not bullsh*t and that his team had also received similar orders and knew of more people in the SF community who had also confirmed this was not a fluke. I wasn't there. I was never intel or SF but these men who were are quite adamant about their claims. Dtop, you were there, what's your take on it?
Yeah, I was there. Coincidentally I guess, our AO was that same border. I would never question someone's claim about a mission I wasn't involved with. But, I would ask WTF possible reason would there have been to do that? I would need many more details about those mission even to express an opinion. Were any more details given?
 
bulldogg said:
At a Firebase Indy I attended with a friend in 1992 one of the hot topics being discussed was one that was being talked about by a vetted Navy seal who did two tours in vietnam. He was later denied his request to return to Vietnam when he was rotated out and couldnt cope. So he enlisted in the Marines and went back. He was captured and subsequesntly rescued by seals of his former team, some of whom were there at the firebase. He and his teammates were telling people of a mission which they received which was to infiltrate a position in border area with Laos and they were to terminate everyone in the 'village'. It turned out to be a camp where POWs were being held and rather than rescue them they were sent to kill them, they didnt, they brought them back alive. I called bullsh*t in quiet to my friend who as an SF medic with four years in Vietnam and he almost hit me. He became livid as he told me that this story was not bullsh*t and that his team had also received similar orders and knew of more people in the SF community who had also confirmed this was not a fluke. I wasn't there. I was never intel or SF but these men who were are quite adamant about their claims. Dtop, you were there, what's your take on it?

Roll your pants up, it's too late to save the shoes. :sarc:
 
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