In my eyes Cassilas is a flycatcher- he was never able to really catch the ball... Kahn managed to grap it while flying over some ground... that's most uncommon for many keepers.

Well, every year since season 2003/4, he was the GK who received the least goals, and he is on the way to win the title this year again.

Rattler

That he doesn't get many goals doesn't have to be his doing ... there's always a defense ^^

Originally Posted by ObjSRgtLw

That he doesn't get many goals doesn't have to be his doing ... there's always a defense ^^

Which is sooooo true... (for the Germans: Old Kreisliga Amateur goalie talking here, my bet is you never heard of the club: Fußball-und Kulturclub Vorsicht Treffer, Neu-Isenburg):

All these discussions about best or worse goalies often do not take into account that as GK you are the boss of the defense, and that you have to train them to present you with what you can handle according to your abilities (no goalie has them all)... Keeping it clean is team work - and it is like that for all of them GKs.

Still, and again an old goalie talking here, San Iker has something others do not have... probably his style is irritating, but he comes from Handball... (and I do not see the "Fliegenfänger" aspect, ending up with the ball in your hands is *not* a merit as such, keeping your box clean, yes...) Zamorra did it, Maier did it, Stein did it also, you have to judge a goalie in his time (and Kahn, in his time, was one of the best for sure).

Today, nothing better than having Casillas behind you if you have a forward oriented style, a reduced defense (to 3) , and good receptionists that can turn on the spot.

Then, there are other aspects as well: If you play with a guy like Kuffour, that is your limit ("Hey, do *not* pass me the ball!!!! What would I do with it ???"), as those destroyers do not develop to the front ever and do not paint in modern soccer anymore (luckily, for us spectators).

Consequently, Kahn always kicked the ball large instead of giving it to one of his by hand: 60+% of Kahns "Abschlägen" ended in ENY hands (feet, of cause), which is not the way I would like soccer to develop to as it is stone age perception formed by focussing on defense (ball farther away = less danger) and is not played today anymore (see Van der Saar, Valdez, Casillas, Buffon, Czech). For todays "possession" focussed soccer this is not the way to go (and for years that was my main - apart from his debility when touching with the foot - complaint about Oliver Kahn during his career).

Again, I might be wrong, just an opinion...

Rattler

Kahns the best- period... yes im stubborn on this one ^^

Originally Posted by ObjSRgtLw

Kahns the best- period... yes im stubborn on this one ^^

Apology accepted...

Rattler

Originally Posted by ObjSRgtLw

Kahns the best- period... yes im stubborn on this one ^^

Yeah I've seen Casillas play several times, ever since he wore the number "27" on his back.
But Kahn at his peak was without equal.

Why are not all penalties executed like this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IjGbB0_fUXA

Due to a recent event (Casillas - incredibly! - on Tuesday killed a penalty shot á la "Panenka" from Casquero, see after 0:28 in this vid - and Pepe is out for 10 matches for 1. Last man foul, 2. Agression, 3. Insulting the ref after expulsion, 4. Re-entering the field after having been expelled to celebrate the last goal... He will be fined tenths of thousands of Euros by the club, wont play anymore this season and is for sale: Anyone with little money can have this crackhead... -)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMmjzpt5Du4

I had voiced in a discussion that the only sure way to make a penalty (more so if it is really critical to score, and of cause when it is not in the penalty shoot out of a cup - where other laws apply - ) enter is to make it a rehearsed pass as in this classic Cruyff one that I rembered, but some ppl said it was illegal now under UEFA AND FIFA rules.

I did not find anything in the rules posted on the net (or do not understand them sufficiently) http://www.uefa.com/uefa/mediaservices/regulations/index.html , any experts out there?

Comments much appreciated,

Rattler

P.S.: If you do not know what a "Panenka" is, check this (Panenka shot Chechoslowakia to their only European Champion title beating Sepp Maier with a lob right into the center of the goal - first one in this vid - and has been imitated often since):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBiQJDkxlGU

I hold to the opinion that pre, say, 1960, goalkeepers were an entirely different breed; they had to be. When you talk of the greatest ever, remember that you are considering only those you have seen.

Originally Posted by Del Boy

I hold to the opinion that pre, say, 1960, goalkeepers were an entirely different breed; they had to be. When you talk of the greatest ever, remember that you are considering only those you have seen.

...and all - like in any soccer discussion - in their time.

It is fairly difficult to do the time machine thingy, but if you just subtract Athletism and new systems, player speed and physical fitness, and additionnally are able to intuate what the other rules at that time meant, you can even understand why someone like e.g. Berti Vogts could make a name...

Rattler