So why do people hate Israel? - Page 99




 
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October 22nd, 2012  
ScarabVenom
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by I3BrigPvSk
It can be achieved prior an establishment of a Palestinian state on a micro economic level
And how would you make those 2 economically dependent on each others? Since I'm not familiar with the European Coal and something, sorry
October 23rd, 2012  
I3BrigPvSk
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScarabVenom
And how would you make those 2 economically dependent on each others? Since I'm not familiar with the European Coal and something, sorry
In a very abstract form; the European Coal and Steel Community (ECSC) was the first step toward what we call the European Union. The goal with ECSC was to connect former enemies in Europe and make them dependent on each other economically. The method has been used in much smaller scales to implement conflict resolutions, mostly in Africa to rebuild economic ties and the state building (institution building, implementation of good governance) of these war stricken countries. The economic part of these conflict resolutions are the most important part, because everything begins with the micro economic level; when the population are buying or selling their goods.
October 23rd, 2012  
senojekips
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScarabVenom
I'm not blaming Palestinians, did I sound as if I am?
Not at all, that was the furthest thing from my mind.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScarabVenom
Right now, kicking Palestinians out is wrong.
I agree
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScarabVenom
And kicking Israelis out is also wrong.
Now this is where we tend to drift apart.
No European Jew has any legitimate right to occupy any land in Palestine, no more than I do to kill or drive out the present occupants of lands owned by my ancestors 1200 years ago. In short their occupation is both immoral and unlawful, on top of which the Israelis have enacted a policy of disenfranchisement, expansionism and Ethnic Cleansing.

WWII was fought to prevent the exact same type of policies being enacted by the Nazis, but in this case, because the US has seen it as politically expedient, nothing has been done to see this reversed.
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October 23rd, 2012  
I3BrigPvSk
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by senojekips
Not at all, that was the furthest thing from my mind.
I agree
Now this is where we tend to drift apart.
No European Jew has any legitimate right to occupy any land in Palestine, no more than I do to kill or drive out the present occupants of lands owned by my ancestors 1200 years ago. In short their occupation is both immoral and unlawful, on top of which the Israelis have enacted a policy of disenfranchisement, expansionism and Ethnic Cleansing.

WWII was fought to prevent the exact same type of policies being enacted by the Nazis, but in this case, because the US has seen it as politically expedient, nothing has been done to see this reversed.
I have a question, Seno. Do you mean you agree to kick out the Israelis from the occupied areas or from the country Israel? I agree fully to kick them out from the occupied areas.
October 23rd, 2012  
senojekips
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by I3BrigPvSk
I have a question, Seno. Do you mean you agree to kick out the Israelis from the occupied areas or from the country Israel? I agree fully to kick them out from the occupied areas.
What I mean is that the Palestinians must have all the land that was taken from them returned, and that they must be given complete control of it.

Other than the 6% of land purchased by Jews prior to 1948, virtually all Israeli land is unlawfully occupied as the legitimate occupiers were driven off by coercion and force of arms. This still continues to this day.

If you want to understand where I'm coming from, just place yourself in this scenario. Imagine that UN gave (for example) the starving Muslim Ethiopians the right to just walk in and take over all of the prime land in your country, driving you and virtually all of current occupants into neighbouring countries where they are unwanted but allowed to live in defined camps, totally without rights, and reducing those who remained to the status of animals. The US then supplied these Ethiopians with unlimited financial and military aide to both enforce this occupation and continue their land grab into any remaining areas where your people remained.
October 23rd, 2012  
Yossarian
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by senojekips
What I mean is that the Palestinians must have all the land that was taken from them returned, and that they must be given complete control of it.

Other than the 6% of land purchased by Jews prior to 1948, virtually all Israeli land is unlawfully occupied as the legitimate occupiers were driven off by coercion and force of arms. This still continues to this day.

If you want to understand where I'm coming from, just place yourself in this scenario. Imagine that UN gave (for example) the starving Muslim Ethiopians the right to just walk in and take over all of the prime land in your country, driving you and virtually all of current occupants into neighbouring countries where they are unwanted but allowed to live in defined camps, totally without rights, and reducing those who remained to the status of animals. The US then supplied these Ethiopians with unlimited financial and military aide to both enforce this occupation and continue their land grab into any remaining areas where your people remained.

Reducing people to cattle, if this happened to a western nation the world would be all on the airwaves raging over human rights.

But here if you ignore it long enough it all goes away, obiviously this is the superior logic currently employed.

And apparently common sense on the source of this conflict currently does not apply in the eyes of many Western backers of Israel.
October 23rd, 2012  
senojekips
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yossarian
Reducing people to cattle, if this happened to a western nation the world would be all on the airwaves raging over human rights.

But here if you ignore it long enough it all goes away, obiviously this is the superior logic currently employed.

And apparently common sense on the source of this conflict currently does not apply in the eyes of many Western backers of Israel.
It is politically inconvenient to confront the truth of the matter. It's easier to just ignore it, totally disregarding that it is the root cause of such things as the current global terror crisis.

Rather than lose face and admit the truth, and stop it at it's source it's easier to save face and send off the cream of your country's youth to be killed and maimed in it's defence, not to mention the enormous financial burden that your taxpayers are having to maintain in a time when you're having to print money just to cover your debts.

What is really worrying is that there is still a large number of people who have no idea of how it all comes about and they actually defend this lunacy.
October 23rd, 2012  
Yossarian
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by senojekips

What is really worrying is that there is still a large number of people who have no idea of how it all comes about and they actually defend this lunacy.

Some say the largest threat to my country maybe a rogue nuclear state, or a rising East Asian Super power....

But no, the largest threat capable of the most damage to my country is Ignorance.

A threat that holds more potent damage then all of the munitions our enemies have access to.
October 24th, 2012  
ScarabVenom
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by I3BrigPvSk
In a very abstract form; the European Coal and Steel Community (ECSC) was the first step toward what we call the European Union. The goal with ECSC was to connect former enemies in Europe and make them dependent on each other economically. The method has been used in much smaller scales to implement conflict resolutions, mostly in Africa to rebuild economic ties and the state building (institution building, implementation of good governance) of these war stricken countries. The economic part of these conflict resolutions are the most important part, because everything begins with the micro economic level; when the population are buying or selling their goods.
I'll have to check more details about that. But, it does sound good.
October 24th, 2012  
ScarabVenom
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by senojekips
Not at all, that was the furthest thing from my mind.
I agree
Now this is where we tend to drift apart.
No European Jew has any legitimate right to occupy any land in Palestine, no more than I do to kill or drive out the present occupants of lands owned by my ancestors 1200 years ago. In short their occupation is both immoral and unlawful, on top of which the Israelis have enacted a policy of disenfranchisement, expansionism and Ethnic Cleansing.

WWII was fought to prevent the exact same type of policies being enacted by the Nazis, but in this case, because the US has seen it as politically expedient, nothing has been done to see this reversed.
We can agree on that when it was back when Europeans were coming. Now, most Israelis if not all are born and raised in this spot (whether you call it Palestine or Israel). It would be unethical and inhumane to just kick them out of their homes. If we blame them for doing this to the Palestinians, we should also blame ourselves if we did this.

If we say Palestinians are the right ones, then the best solution would be like this...keep the Israelis in Palestine, start massive trials against all ex and current Israeli ministers and prime ministers and open cases for warcrimes. Because I will not calm down until I see those bastards executed or behind bars. After that, declare the state of Palestine for everyone who was born and raised or lived for a period of time in this country. And keep Palestine for everyone. Jews wanted Palestine for their religion, fine; keep them, and they practice their religion freely without any type of prosecution. Same for the Muslims and Christians since this land has holy sites for all 3 Abrahamic religions. And like this, we achieved the best we could. Palestinians got their entire land back, Jews live in the land of their ancestors and practice their religion. And of course as I said before, strict laws of racism against anyone who starts provoking others against the other race. Maybe eventually, both parties will get used to each others and then forget about the 2 parties and they recognize that they are all Palestinians.
 


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