So why do people hate Israel? - Page 87




 
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August 18th, 2012  
VDKMS
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MontyB
Would we have to be in Afghanistan if there was no Middle Eastern problem? NO.
YES, the attack on 9/11 had nothing to do with the US support of Israel but with foreign boots on muslim ground (US troops in Saudi Arabia - 15 of the 19 hijackers were Saudis)

Quote:
Would we have to be in Yemen if there was no Middle Eastern problem? NO.
YES, terrorists are constantly looking for save havens, Yemen is one of them.

Quote:
Would Al Qaeda exist if not for the Middle Eastern problem? NO.
YES, they want a global caliphate and Al Qaeda fights foreign boots on muslim ground.

Quote:
Would we have a Middle Eastern problem if not for Israel? NO.
YES, Sunni vs Shia

Why is it that you blame everything on Israel (and the US plus anyone who support the jews) yet the terrorist organisations, that you claim are founded because of Israel, do not attack Israel? Only Jihadis from Hamas attack Israel. Oh yes, Iran also tried to attack Israelis outside Israel with minor succes.
August 18th, 2012  
MontyB
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by VDKMS

Why is it that you blame everything on Israel (and the US plus anyone who support the jews) yet the terrorist organisations, that you claim are founded because of Israel, do not attack Israel? Only Jihadis from Hamas attack Israel. Oh yes, Iran also tried to attack Israelis outside Israel with minor succes.
I don't blame everything on Israel I blame almost everything on the creation of Israel, whether you support Israel or not you surely must agree that the transplanting of a population onto land that someone else claims causes problems and in this case it has caused and continues to cause problems on a world wide scale.

Seriously how many millions a year does it cost the world in security because a bunch of European Jews think they have claim to land middle Eastern Muslims have lived on for 1500+ years?

I for one grow tired of the all the excuses for a nation built from terrorism that contributes nothing to the world but violence and the perpetual misery of the people it deposed all so it can continue to take more land from those people.

However the people that are responsible for this mess ultimately must be the Western world, Britain for its double dealing actions prior to and during WW1, the UN for for letting one holocaust justify another and the US for funding yet another pariah nation to build its own empire.

So I blame Israel because it is a colonising, land grabbing foreign entity in a land that is not theirs, I blame the US for keeping them there, I blame Britain and the rest of the western world for not showing the guts to pack a bunch of European boat people back on boats and sending them back to Poland and Germany where they came from. So do not believe that I think this is all the fault of the Jews we must also take responsibility for the monster our cowardice created
August 19th, 2012  
VDKMS
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MontyB
I don't blame everything on Israel I blame almost everything on the creation of Israel, whether you support Israel or not you surely must agree that the transplanting of a population onto land that someone else claims causes problems and in this case it has caused and continues to cause problems on a world wide scale.

Seriously how many millions a year does it cost the world in security because a bunch of European Jews think they have claim to land middle Eastern Muslims have lived on for 1500+ years?

I for one grow tired of the all the excuses for a nation built from terrorism that contributes nothing to the world but violence and the perpetual misery of the people it deposed all so it can continue to take more land from those people.

However the people that are responsible for this mess ultimately must be the Western world, Britain for its double dealing actions prior to and during WW1, the UN for for letting one holocaust justify another and the US for funding yet another pariah nation to build its own empire.

So I blame Israel because it is a colonising, land grabbing foreign entity in a land that is not theirs, I blame the US for keeping them there, I blame Britain and the rest of the western world for not showing the guts to pack a bunch of European boat people back on boats and sending them back to Poland and Germany where they came from. So do not believe that I think this is all the fault of the Jews we must also take responsibility for the monster our cowardice created
I would agree with you if Israel was created on the land of a liberated Palestinian country. But that wasn't the case, Israel was founded on land captured by the allies (western, Arab and Jewish) on the Ottoman Empire. The "Palestinians" who at last could have had a first class opportunity to have their own country didn't participate in the fighting. Worse, some of them fought against the allies. After WWI and WWII many countries were founded. Many people fled and had to start a new life in another country. It was not only the Jews who fled.

The Arabs who fought with the allies were very glad that the Jews came to Palestine but they didn't want them to have a country of their own because of religious reasons. Non muslims are not allowed to rule muslim ground. That's the core of the troubles. Stealing the land in their (muslim) point of view is different than ours.

If Israel wouldn't have been created would you have mind a Jewish controled Jerusalem city state? After all, Jerusalem always had a Jewish majority. And yet that part, the part where the Jews always had the majority, must become the capital of a future Islamic Palestine. Don't you find that weird? Ever thought about that?

Boko Harem in Nigeria doesn't care about Israel they want sharia law in Nigeria. The same for Al Shabaab in Somaila, the Taliban in Afghanistan and Pakistan, Abu Sayyaf in the Philippines and other groups in many other countries.

The connection with all these troubled spots is sharia law and non muslims on muslim ground. Replace the Jews with Christians in a catholic state and it would be kill the crusaders instead of the zionists.

Strangely enough, it were Jews and Christians who lived there for the greater part of history, not Arabs and Muslims.
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August 20th, 2012  
MontyB
 
 
I see a lot of fragments strung together to form a rather incoherent argument there.

1) No one is denying that Jews lived in the region for thousands of years.
2) No one is arguing that the region is home to 3 major religions.

But you still keep trying to connect the European boat people to the indigenous Jews and I hate to break it to you but they have nothing in common other than religion.

Here is an interesting thing my wife is Catholic but her mother is Jewish how do you explain that without drawing the conclusion that "Jewish" is a religion and not a race and if that is the case then all those who arrived in the region from Europe have no claim to the region at all.

The fragmentation of the region only really started when "immigration" began in earnest until then Palestinian Jews, Muslims and Christians got on reasonably well.
August 20th, 2012  
VDKMS
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MontyB
I see a lot of fragments strung together to form a rather incoherent argument there.

1) No one is denying that Jews lived in the region for thousands of years.
2) No one is arguing that the region is home to 3 major religions.

But you still keep trying to connect the European boat people to the indigenous Jews and I hate to break it to you but they have nothing in common other than religion.

Here is an interesting thing my wife is Catholic but her mother is Jewish how do you explain that without drawing the conclusion that "Jewish" is a religion and not a race and if that is the case then all those who arrived in the region from Europe have no claim to the region at all.

The fragmentation of the region only really started when "immigration" began in earnest until then Palestinian Jews, Muslims and Christians got on reasonably well.
And where came the Arabs from? The ancestors of the Arabs now living in the region Palestine were the ones who chased away most Jews and a lot of Christians when they conquered the region in the 7th century.

Now you can argue that that is a very long time ago so, if we wait some centuries more, Israel would become the legitimate owner when we follow that logic.

So we are back to one of my very first questions on this forum : how far is one allowed to go back in time to prove he's right? In the end we'll end up with the first society somewhere in southern Africa. Can they claim the whole world because they started the process of migration? If not who has the authority to decide the moment in time that everyone can use to prove he's right?

Wouldn't it be better to follow rule of law? Can you blame immigrants when they are allowed to settle legally in a country? When that country disappears isn't it normal that other countries arise? A Jewish Palestinian is equal to an Arab Palestinian is equal to a native Palestinian. All people living in the British Mandate of Palestine , including immigrants, got the Palestinian citizenship. Jewish Germans became Palestinians, Egyptian Arabs became Palestinians , Ottoman citizens became Palestinians.

If those immigrants would have been jewish muslims do you think it would have been the same? I don't think so. An Islamic Israel will be tolerated, a Jewish one not.

The problem is religion, not land grab.
August 21st, 2012  
senojekips
 
 
Here's an example of Israeli deception and outright lies.

First of all they deny that it happened
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qObUs21wl-8"]Israeli scandal caught by Sweden Donald Bostrom the selling of human organ trade - YouTube[/ame]
.
Then after the fuss has died down,... "Oh, sorry, I guess we did".
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-cJvTZGwKW8"]Israel admits it harvested organs of dead Palestinians - RT 091222 - YouTube[/ame]
August 21st, 2012  
VDKMS
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by senojekips
Here's an example of Israeli deception and outright lies.

First of all they deny that it happened
Israeli scandal caught by Sweden Donald Bostrom the selling of human organ trade - YouTube
.
Then after the fuss has died down,... "Oh, sorry, I guess we did".
Israel admits it harvested organs of dead Palestinians - RT 091222 - YouTube
Don't you have the ability to say something as it happend without distorting the facts?

First, this is old story. It happend in the 90's. In fact, it is happening all over the world in a lot of countries. Harvesting organs without the permission of the family is big business and illegal.

Second, Palestinians were not the only victims as one of the titles implies (deception of you) but also Israelis, foreign workers and even IDF soldiers.

You'll find the real story here: Doctor admits Israeli pathologists harvested organs without consent

some quotes:

Quote:
However, there was no evidence that Israel had killed Palestinians to take their organs, as the Swedish paper reported.
Quote:
Hiss was removed from his post in 2004
Stories from other countries:

Britain : Alder Hey organs scandal: the issue explained

Kososvo : Kosovo physicians accused of illegal organs removal racket

other countries : 8 Countries Where Human Organs Are Harvested

Mostly China : Interview with Dr. Jacob Lavee [about forced organ harvesting]

advice to the Palestinians for peace:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQ0oE_dbhSo"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQ0oE_dbhSo[/ame]
August 21st, 2012  
senojekips
 
 
I have the ability to tell the truth,... something that completely eludes you. "It's old, so therefore it's untrue",... even thought it was admitted by the Israelis. Tell us how you say that the Israelis did not deny that it had been done, and then later admit that it had.

Nice try diverting the facts idiot. You demonstrate all of the classic symptoms of a pathological liar, the only saving grace being that you are obviously not very good at it.

Here's another reason to hate Israel, firstly they kill an innocent woman and after deliberately wrecking the interior of the house "looking for weapons" (of which none were found) and terrorising the remaining family members, they then blow a hole in the wall just to get back out onto the street, (1:38) The IDF stated that it was too embarrassing to allow the video to be shown, but fortunately someone with some morality leaked it.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P31IVIoG9x8"]Zionist Israel Atrocities - YouTube[/ame]
August 22nd, 2012  
VDKMS
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by senojekips
I have the ability to tell the truth,... something that completely eludes you. "It's old, so therefore it's untrue",... even thought it was admitted by the Israelis. Tell us how you say that the Israelis did not deny that it had been done, and then later admit that it had.

Nice try diverting the facts idiot. You demonstrate all of the classic symptoms of a pathological liar, the only saving grace being that you are obviously not very good at it.

Here's another reason to hate Israel, firstly they kill an innocent woman and after deliberately wrecking the interior of the house "looking for weapons" (of which none were found) and terrorising the remaining family members, they then blow a hole in the wall just to get back out onto the street, (1:38) The IDF stated that it was too embarrassing to allow the video to be shown, but fortunately someone with some morality leaked it.

Zionist Israel Atrocities - YouTube
No, you don't tell the truth, you only tell a part of it, the part that suites you. You skip the rest.

This was not Israeli policy, it was just an illegal way of getting organs by some pathologists. This was ended long before the article was written and the head of that insitute was fired (also long before the article was published). You also "forgot" to mention that it wasn't only done on Palestinians and that such illegal procedures are being done all over the world.

If you condem the Israelis then you have to condem the British and Chinese too because they did the same. But that doesn't bother you because they are not Jews and only palestinians are sacred

How old is that video Seno? Or do you think because they just posted it on youtube (may 2 2012) that it is new? That Israeli spokesman (Raanan Gissin) served with the government until 2006.

This is why they hate Israel:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MhrcxK2PvQ"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MhrcxK2PvQ[/ame].
August 22nd, 2012  
senojekips
 
 
You have this weird perception (because you'll do anything to deny the facts) that because a crime is "old" in your eyes that it somehow lessens it's guilt.

Well,... sorry to bust your bubble, but it does not.

I know that you are fully aware of the fact that both Britain and the US and a half dozen or so other countries colonised other countries back when it was neither breaking any law or unacceptable. Nice try to divert the truth.

I also noticed how MontyB tried to debate this subject with you but just gave up because it is impossible to sensibly debate a fool who lives in total denial of the facts.
 


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