So why do people hate Israel? - Page 86




 
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August 15th, 2012  
Yossarian
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by senojekips
Well, I'm of Jewish descent,... no, I'm definitely not "a Jew", I'm a proud Australian, and I detest what Israel and Zionism is doing to the name of the Jewish people, a people who have provided the world with some of it's most noted academics, humanitarians and philanthropists. All of which is being demolished by the thieving, murdering, self centred, self pitying Israeli Zionists and their supporters.
Same sentiments here, I to find it rather degrading and unjust not only to the Palestinians but to Jewish people around the world as well. Israel's actions have nulled all pity that one could place on them throughout the years.

I don't see the problem with Jews migrating back to their holy land after WW ll, as three major relgions have holy signifigance here. But the original founders of the state of Israel had no right to TAKE, land from people who already LIVED there. You can't just pick a place on the map walk in and say "I want it get out". Imagine if all people did that in life? At this junction of learning more and more about the situation, and seeing how my country is dragged into this pointless sqauble with Israel, I can say this.

I don't see the problem with Jews in this region, however Zionist governing parties I do have an issue with, and it's all for the reasons listed above. It seems they didn't escape Nazism after WW ll, they brought to a different spot on the map.
August 15th, 2012  
VDKMS
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yossarian
Same sentiments here, I to find it rather degrading and unjust not only to the Palestinians but to Jewish people around the world as well. Israel's actions have nulled all pity that one could place on them throughout the years.

I don't see the problem with Jews migrating back to their holy land after WW ll, as three major relgions have holy signifigance here. But the original founders of the state of Israel had no right to TAKE, land from people who already LIVED there. You can't just pick a place on the map walk in and say "I want it get out". Imagine if all people did that in life? At this junction of learning more and more about the situation, and seeing how my country is dragged into this pointless sqauble with Israel, I can say this.

I don't see the problem with Jews in this region, however Zionist governing parties I do have an issue with, and it's all for the reasons listed above. It seems they didn't escape Nazism after WW ll, they brought to a different spot on the map.
Sorry, the Jews just didn't take it, they asked for it and was given to them by the international community. In fact they got a lot less than was first promised to them.

Do not forget that the whole ME was formed by the same nations that allowed an Israeli state.

Thanks to the Jews the Palestinians have at least some control of their own people. The Turks ((Ottoman Empire) and the Arabs (Jordan and Egypt) never did this although they easily could have done it.

I don't like radicals anywhere (including radical Jewish settlers), but the radical Jews are a minority in the Israeli government while radical Palestinians are completely in charge of Gaza.

If you dislike Israeli radicals but you support Palestinian radicals then you are biased.

Do not forget that it was the Palestinian radicals that started to attack the Jews, not the way around. (they even didn't call themselves Palestinians at that time)
August 15th, 2012  
Yossarian
 
 
"If you dislike Israeli radicals but you support Palestinian radicals then you are biased."



Your right I am biased, as an American who has grown weary of the attacks and bitter hatred of the U.S. due to misallocated policies around the Middle East in this particular instance Israel.

Our blind supplying and propping up the state has let to attacks against Americans around the globe. Attacks against my fellow countrymen.

America has always had a precarious balance with Ideals and Policy. We claim and aim to export ideals of a democratic society with forms of elected government.

Where did Palestine have this option in 1947?

Israel's war of indepedence at this point seems like a war of occupation.

Now the policy bit, despite our goal of exporting ideals we have routinely shown that we have no qualms about instaling, supporting and arming dictator's and murderous regimes the world over.

Which is rearing it's ugly head again in this issue.

Evidence of this was displayed by the current administration's doubts that the people of Eygpt would over throw President Mubarak. When it happened you can see from Secretary Clinton's statements that this shocked us and the U.S. did an about face on it's support, politically and militarly of Eygpt throwing in with the rebels.

I wish the U.S. would do this here. We need to go back to working with our ideals moreso than failed policy.

Evidence of such is attacks kiddnappings and bombings against American's the world over. I don't sit well with this an many of my countrymen would agree. Our blind support contributes to this with the Israeli situation and the manipulation of our policy makers by Zoinist interest groups is something I find repulsive.

It's a mess now but if we took a different stance in 1947 this could have largely been minimized if not avoided. I am sick of watching American flags being burned in Gaza because we turned our back on them and our policy makers don't want to admit that their predecessors may have not made the best call on that one.

And I long for the day when the U.S. government stands up and offers Israel the ultimatium to admit to what it is doing or face total disenfranchisment between the two bilateral parties.

Maybe then the ground work would be in place to focus on what needs to come next.

The only thing radical here is how this issue is radically ignored.
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August 15th, 2012  
senojekips
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yossarian
"If you dislike Israeli radicals but you support Palestinian radicals then you are biased."

Your right I am biased, as an American who has grown weary of the attacks and bitter hatred of the U.S. due to misallocated policies around the Middle East in the particular instance Israel. Our blind supplying and propping up the state has let to attacks against Americans around the globe. Attacks against my fellow countrymen.
---snip---
The only thing radical here is how this issue is radically ignored.
Where did that come from?... I didn't realise that you had it in you Yo.

Very well said, go to the top of the class. Israel has been leading the US taxpayers around by the nose like a prize bull, ever since it was first proclaimed, using Holocaust guilt as blackmail.
August 16th, 2012  
VDKMS
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yossarian
"If you dislike Israeli radicals but you support Palestinian radicals then you are biased."



Your right I am biased, as an American who has grown weary of the attacks and bitter hatred of the U.S. due to misallocated policies around the Middle East in this particular instance Israel.

Our blind supplying and propping up the state has let to attacks against Americans around the globe. Attacks against my fellow countrymen.

America has always had a precarious balance with Ideals and Policy. We claim and aim to export ideals of a democratic society with forms of elected government.

Where did Palestine have this option in 1947?

Israel's war of indepedence at this point seems like a war of occupation.

Now the policy bit, despite our goal of exporting ideals we have routinely shown that we have no qualms about instaling, supporting and arming dictator's and murderous regimes the world over.

Which is rearing it's ugly head again in this issue.

Evidence of this was displayed by the current administration's doubts that the people of Eygpt would over throw President Mubarak. When it happened you can see from Secretary Clinton's statements that this shocked us and the U.S. did an about face on it's support, politically and militarly of Eygpt throwing in with the rebels.

I wish the U.S. would do this here. We need to go back to working with our ideals moreso than failed policy.

Evidence of such is attacks kiddnappings and bombings against American's the world over. I don't sit well with this an many of my countrymen would agree. Our blind support contributes to this with the Israeli situation and the manipulation of our policy makers by Zoinist interest groups is something I find repulsive.

It's a mess now but if we took a different stance in 1947 this could have largely been minimized if not avoided. I am sick of watching American flags being burned in Gaza because we turned our back on them and our policy makers don't want to admit that their predecessors may have not made the best call on that one.

And I long for the day when the U.S. government stands up and offers Israel the ultimatium to admit to what it is doing or face total disenfranchisment between the two bilateral parties.

Maybe then the ground work would be in place to focus on what needs to come next.

The only thing radical here is how this issue is radically ignored.
Which society comes closer to the American values: Israel or the West Bank/Gaza ? Who has the better democracy? Freedom of speech? Equality written into law?

"Palestinians" have had multiple chances to have a country of their own but never wanted one. Not before or during the Ottoman Empire. Refused it after the Ottoman Empire. Couldn't becaue of a war with Israel (1948), didn't when under Arab (Jordan and Egypt) control. Whether you like it or not but it is because of Israel with a peace accord with the PLO that they were finally able to govern themselves. Their leader? Yasser Arafat, an immigrant just like many Jews.

was your country is Iraq because of Israel? NO
is your country in Afghanistan because of Israel? NO
is your country fighting in Yemen because of israel? NO
is and was your country fighting in Somalia because of Israel? NO

did shia muslims attack you because you were in Iraq? YES
does the Taliban attack you becaue you are in Afganistan? YES
does Al Qaida attack you because you are fighting on muslim ground? YES
August 17th, 2012  
r.fox
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by o2o2243
It started after the injustice which was done to them in WW2, land was claimed for the Jews (cause a retarded book of 2000 years old says so) and the inhabitants of that day... well nobody gave a f***.
Mix this with the fact that the state of Israel became an arrogant power monger... I also would have my reasons to hate them.

At last I want to say I don't hate Jews,
well calling the oldest book worshipped by a billion people, retarded is surely not going to get you some flak isnt it.

well because of all the claims and counter claims no-one can really be sure of who claimed the land for most of the time, although the jews can claim to have some possesion of it at some point, although that list also includes christians and arabs, so why dont we make a christian country in the area as well??

the problem is that now that their is a jewish state in the area, it has made it clear in the last 50 years that israel is here to stay
August 17th, 2012  
MontyB
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by r.fox
the problem is that now that their is a jewish state in the area, it has made it clear in the last 50 years that israel is here to stay
They said that about Prussia as well but you wont find that on a map these days.

Nothing is forever, especially when you are talking about an imposed population and this is I believe the mistake Israel is making they have failed to understand that time is not on their side.

The problem here remains that while some people may be happy at the demise of Israel as a state I am not sure I can see any benefit in replacing one humanitarian nightmare with another so I am still convinced that there has to be compromise solution.
August 17th, 2012  
VDKMS
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MontyB
They said that about Prussia as well but you wont find that on a map these days.

Nothing is forever, especially when you are talking about an imposed population and this is I believe the mistake Israel is making they have failed to understand that time is not on their side.

The problem here remains that while some people may be happy at the demise of Israel as a state I am not sure I can see any benefit in replacing one humanitarian nightmare with another so I am still convinced that there has to be compromise solution.
I agree with you but that thinking also counts for Arab countries. Will Iraq split up between the Kurds in the North and the Shia in the South? What about Syria? Will the Kurds try to get independence? Lebanon - can Hezbollah survive without a civil war? Egypt - their military in the Sinai, is that to fight terrorists or is it a sophism to get a military presence near Israel?

The fuse is burning in the ME and everyone is jumping around but so far no one is extinguishing it. Hard times for every country because the certitudes are gone.

One should give religion an xxx rating instead of the unharmful erotic movies.
August 18th, 2012  
MontyB
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by VDKMS
was your country is Iraq because of Israel? NO
is your country in Afghanistan because of Israel? NO
is your country fighting in Yemen because of israel? NO
is and was your country fighting in Somalia because of Israel? NO

did shia muslims attack you because you were in Iraq? YES
does the Taliban attack you becaue you are in Afganistan? YES
does Al Qaida attack you because you are fighting on muslim ground? YES


Would we have to be in Afghanistan if there was no Middle Eastern problem? NO.

Would we have to be in Yemen if there was no Middle Eastern problem? NO.

Would Al Qaeda exist if not for the Middle Eastern problem? NO.

Would we have a Middle Eastern problem if not for Israel? NO.
August 18th, 2012  
Yossarian
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MontyB
Would we have to be in Afghanistan if there was no Middle Eastern problem? NO.

Would we have to be in Yemen if there was no Middle Eastern problem? NO.

Would Al Qaeda exist if not for the Middle Eastern problem? NO.

Would we have a Middle Eastern problem if not for Israel? NO.

Well put, could'nt have said it better myself.
 


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