So why do people hate Israel? - Page 7




 
--
 
December 3rd, 2011  
VDKMS
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by senojekips
If Israel were Muslim, they would have been invaded by the US years ago.
elaborate please.
December 3rd, 2011  
senojekips
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by VDKMS
elaborate please.
Why don't you use you damned brain.


A short excerpt to give you some clues
Quote:
The U.S Department of State found in the bloody year of 2003 that amongst other violations of international law:

• “Israeli soldiers placed civilians in danger by ordering them [Palestinians] to facilitate military operations.”

• “Israeli forces sometimes arbitrarily destroyed, damaged, or looted Palestinian property”.

• “Israeli security forces often impeded the provision of medical assistance to Palestinian civilians.”

• “Israeli security forces harassed and abused Palestinian pedestrians.”

• “Israel conducted mass, arbitrary arrests in the West Bank during military operations, summoning and detaining males between the ages of 15 and 45”

• “Israel carried out policies of demolitions, strict curfews, and closures that directly punished innocent civilians … Israel often demolished homes after suspects had already been killed or arrested.”

• Israel “maintained” according to the Department of State “that such punishment of innocents would serve as a deterrent against future terrorist attacks.”

These insidious patterns have been sustained by all Israeli administrations and represent a ‘continuum’: a calculated militaristic policy of intimidation and worse toward the innocent civilians of Palestine. This being so, I must add my concerns to the concerns of the Rachel Corrie Foundation that “the State Departments Country Reports on Human Rights systematically exclude the State Departments own analysis of Israel’s failure to perform a credible investigation into the killing of Rachel Corrie,” and further concerns that “reports generated by international NGOs such as Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International, which noted a pattern of negligence in Israeli investigations into civilians killed by the IDF, were ignored in the creation of the Country Reports.”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~
Another tidbit,
“Our American friends offer us money, arms, and advice.
We take the money, we take the arms, and we decline the advice.” (Moshe Dayan)
December 3rd, 2011  
VDKMS
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by senojekips
It's a great little link. eh? and written by Jews no less. Yes, there atre many jews who will not be fooled by this dream of a state based on terror.
Only if you are an apologist for the Zionists. If it were not for the US support of Israel, there never would have been any Al Quaeda, no Hamas, no Global Islamic terrorism. Your problem is that you just don't want to admit the truth.
you are right about Hamas not about the others.

Quote:
Another little Zionist gem, another admission of criminal intent.
“The Arabs will have to go, but one needs an opportune moment for making it happen, such as war” (Ben Gurion)
Another fabrication. Ben Gurion NEVER said that.

Filmmaker Porter Speakman, Jr., producer and director of the 2010 movie With God on Our Side, has issued a press release acknowledging that a quote attributed to David Ben-Gurion by historian Ilan Pappé is not reliable.

In his 2006 book The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine (Oneworld Publications), Pappé reported that in a 1937 letter to his son, David Ben-Gurion wrote the following: “The Arabs will have to go, but one needs an opportune moment for making it happen, such as a war.”

It's a damning quote and is featured prominently in With God on Our Side. But it does not appear in any of the sources Pappé cites.

In his book, Pappé provided two references for this quote. The first reference is the July 12, 1937 entry of Ben-Gurion's diary. The second is page 220 of the August-September 1937 issue of New Judea, a newsletter published by the World Zionist Organization.

CAMERA provided electronic copies of both of these sources – neither of which include the quote attributed to Ben-Gurion – to Speakman earlier this week.

In response Speakman issued a press release that states in part:

… this quote cannot be found in the original sources of Ben Gurion's diary and therefore cannot be verified as authentic. While references to this quote exist, we could not find it in its original form. In an effort to be transparent and accurate, the producers have decided to take the extra step of removing it from future printings of "With God On Our Side." We apologize for this change.
--
December 3rd, 2011  
senojekips
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by VDKMS
from 25 jan 1946 to 29 nov 2011 there have been 2021 UN resorlutions of which 224 are against Israel. You messed up again.

Here you can find all the UN resolutions.
BTW the link is from the UN itself.
I'll stand corrected.

However, Israel still has more resolutions raised against it than any other country, (including the other alleged "rogue states"). AND you very conveniently forgot to include the general assembly Resolutions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Masada2000.org
In fact, of over 700 General Assembly resolutions passed since the UN's 1945 establishment, nearly 450 condemn Israel. Source: http://www.masada2000.org/UN.html

You messed up too it seems.
December 3rd, 2011  
senojekips
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by VDKMS
you are right about Hamas not about the others.
Denial will get you nowhere, the evidence shows otherwise. In fact this travesty of justice is responsible for the unification and all the Global Islamic terror we see today.

Quote:
Another fabrication. Ben Gurion NEVER said that.
Of course not. LOL.. Denial, Denial Denial.
December 3rd, 2011  
VDKMS
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by senojekips
Why don't you use you damned brain.


A short excerpt to give you some clues

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~
Another tidbit,
“Our American friends offer us money, arms, and advice.
We take the money, we take the arms, and we decline the advice.” (Moshe Dayan)
Wikiquote no longer allows unsourced quotations, and they are in process of being removed from our pages (see Wikiquote:Limits on quotations); but if you can provide a reliable, precise and verifiable source for any quote on this list please move it to Moshe Dayan. --Antiquary 20:43, 24 June 2009

- Freedom is the oxygen of the soul.
- I know of nothing more exciting than war.
- If you want to make peace, you don't talk to your friends. You talk to your enemies.
- Our American friends offer us money, arms, and advice. We take the money, we take the arms, and we decline the advice.
- We have returned to the holiest of our Holy Places, never to part from it again.
- On the unification of Jerusalem by Israeli forces

Why don't you if you are so sure?
December 3rd, 2011  
VDKMS
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by senojekips
I'll stand corrected.

However, Israel still has more resolutions raised against it than any other country, (including the other alleged "rogue states"). AND you very conveniently forgot to include the general assembly Resolutions. [/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]
You messed up too it seems.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Masada2000.org
In fact, of over 700 General Assembly resolutions passed since the UN's 1945 establishment, nearly 450 condemn Israel. Source: http://www.masada2000.org/UN.html
You're getting old!

from 24 jan 1946 up to 17 dec 1975 there were 3541 UN General assembly resolutions. From 1976 onwards the count starts again at the beginning of the year. There are more than 200 resolutions each year. Go figure!

UN page here.
December 3rd, 2011  
senojekips
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by VDKMS
Wikiquote no longer allows unsourced quotations, and they are in process of being removed from our pages (see Wikiquote:Limits on quotations); but if you can provide a reliable, precise and verifiable source for any quote on this list please move it to Moshe Dayan. --Antiquary 20:43, 24 June 2009

- Freedom is the oxygen of the soul.
- I know of nothing more exciting than war.
- If you want to make peace, you don't talk to your friends. You talk to your enemies.
- Our American friends offer us money, arms, and advice. We take the money, we take the arms, and we decline the advice.
- We have returned to the holiest of our Holy Places, never to part from it again.
- On the unification of Jerusalem by Israeli forces

Why don't you if you are so sure?
Don't worry, the facts are recorded in enough other places that they will not be smothered by Zionist attempts to distort history. Like I said above, I don't write the facts I only report them, neither do I try to distort them by degrees as the Israelis do running classes to teach volunteers how to distort that which is reported in Wikipedia, because this is where they can infiltrate their propagandists unlike previous peer reviewed publications where their deceptions would soon be discovered and removed. Legitimate review was attempted in a small way but largely given up on in the case of Israeli propaganda as the propagandists flooded it with huge numbers of small but significant distortions.

Zionists Being Trained to Distort the Truth

So widespread around the world is the ill feeling and distrust of Zionism and its murderous policies, Racism, Ethnic cleansing and dispossession, that Israel finds it necessary do this, no other country that I know of in the world finds this necessary. They will do absolutely anything to avoid facing up to the question, "Why is it that we are we so despised and distrusted"? The reason, they know the answer but like children refuse to admit to the truth.

It's the standard Zionist ploy, change the truth by degrees and back it with similar distortions provided by similar pro-zionist sources in an attempt to "change" the truth (read "tell lies"), The first job being to slowly and steadily distort the known truth on sites like Wikipedia.

If you think a little this ploy is a perfect image of what Israel is doing with their acquisition of land. Make many small but illegal land seizures and hang onto them. All the time denying insisting that they are done for "Security". The available evidence shows this to be patently false as is nearly everything else that they say.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VDKMS
You're getting old!

from 24 jan 1946 up to 17 dec 1975 there were 3541 UN General assembly resolutions. From 1976 onwards the count starts again at the beginning of the year. There are more than 200 resolutions each year. Go figure!

UN page here.
As I said above, unlike yourself, I don't try to manufacture the truth, I just report what is written, in this case by a pro-zionist site Masada.org.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Jews For Justice For Palestinians

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Quote:
Originally Posted by VDKMS
… this quote cannot be found in the original sources of Ben Gurion's diary and therefore cannot be verified as authentic. While references to this quote exist, we could not find it in its original form. In an effort to be transparent and accurate, the producers have decided to take the extra step of removing it from future printings of "With God On Our Side." We apologize for this change.
Nice dodge, unfortunately nothing to do with the quote. I certainly don't remember saying that it was an excerpt from his diary?

Here's another tidbit that "nobody said" or wrote in their diary.
"We walked outside, Ben-Gurion accompanying us. Allon repeated his question, What is to be done with the Palestinian population?' Ben-Gurion waved his hand in a gesture which said 'Drive them out!"
-- Yitzhak Rabin, leaked censored version of Rabin memoirs, published in the New York Times, 23 October 1979. Yeah, that's right, they were censored,... no doubt, another attempt to distort history.

[sarcasm] Yep, I already know,... he never said that.[/sarcasm](I must apologise, I seem to have misplaced my book of standard Zionist/Israeli denials, but having read them all enough times, I just thought that I'd demonstrate my vast knowledge and get in before you did)
December 4th, 2011  
VDKMS
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by senojekips
Don't worry, the facts are recorded in enough other places that they will not be smothered by Zionist attempts to distort history. Like I said above, I don't write the facts I only report them, neither do I try to distort them by degrees as the Israelis do running classes to teach volunteers how to distort that which is reported in Wikipedia, because this is where they can infiltrate their propagandists unlike previous peer reviewed publications where their deceptions would soon be discovered and removed. Legitimate review was attempted in a small way but largely given up on in the case of Israeli propaganda as the propagandists flooded it with huge numbers of small but significant distortions.
It is not because you find it in many places that lies or the distortion of facts become true.
You just take things you like to hear, wehter they are true or not, as long as they are anti-Israel. The web sites that tell things you don't like are in your eyes zionist propaganda.

Quote:
So widespread around the world is the ill feeling and distrust of Zionism and its murderous policies, Racism, Ethnic cleansing and dispossession, that Israel finds it necessary do this, no other country that I know of in the world finds this necessary. They will do absolutely anything to avoid facing up to the question, "Why is it that we are we so despised and distrusted"? The reason, they know the answer but like children refuse to admit to the truth.
This is a perfect example of your thinking. You only look at the anti side and ignore the other. This gives you the impression that "everyone" is against.

Quote:
It's the standard Zionist ploy, change the truth by degrees and back it with similar distortions provided by similar pro-zionist sources in an attempt to "change" the truth (read "tell lies"), The first job being to slowly and steadily distort the known truth on sites like Wikipedia.
No it isn't, because if you find something on Wikipedia that you like it is the truth, if someone else quotes Wikipedia and you don't like it, it is distorted.

Quote:
If you think a little this ploy is a perfect image of what Israel is doing with their acquisition of land. Make many small but illegal land seizures and hang onto them. All the time denying insisting that they are done for "Security". The available evidence shows this to be patently false as is nearly everything else that they say.
They cleared all settlements from the Sinai and Gaza.
Why do you worry about the settlements in the West Bank? If there ever is going to be a Palestinian state it will be up to the 1967 borders and the settlements will fall into Palestinian land. The Palestinian leadership is so obsessed, like you, with Israel that they overlook to take care of their people for which they are responible. Like I said before, 2 generations were left in poverty because of that. If you want to solve a problem, start with yourself first!

Quote:
As I said above, unlike yourself, I don't try to manufacture the truth, I just report what is written, in this case by a pro-zionist site Masada.org.
So, if you report what is written, you do not verify do you?

18 sep 2011
One of the reasons that the Palestinians will never get full membership is because they would keep directing the attention of the world, to the the number of UN Resolutions that the Israelis have violated or refused to comply with (more than the total for all members combined), and blatant violations of International Law.

25 sep 2011
They are in contravention of more International Laws and UN resolutions] than all of the other members combined and more closely fit the description of a Rogue State than a democracy.

3 weeks ago
I will say it again, you are wrong, and the single fact that so many International organisations have condemned Israel, and that they have had more UNHRC resolutions raised against them than all other countries combined, is ample proof that I am correct.

3 weeks ago
I will say it again, the single fact that so many International organisations have condemned israel and that they have had more UNHRC resolutions raised against them than all other countries combined, is ample proof that I am correct.

3weeks ago
I will say it again, you are wrong, and the single fact that so many International organisations have condemned Israel, and that they have had more UNHRC resolutions raised against them than all other countries combined, is ample proof that I am correct.

2 weeks ago
and the fact that Israel has more UN resolutions raised against it's behaviour than all other countries combined.

1 week ago
Is it not true that Israel has the dubious honour of having had more resolutions raised against it's criminal behaviour than all other countries combined? And yet you have the unmitigated gall to comment upon the company that others keep,...

5 days ago
Again, you focus on blaming the Palestinians, completely ignoring such facts as Israel having had more condemnatory UN resolutions than every other country put together. If you had even the slightest power of reasoning this would give you some clue as to who the actual wrong doers are.

5 days ago
Well, that is exactly what these Arabs have done isn't it? They have elected to join a terrorist group that has earned more condemnatory UN resolutions than every other country in the world,... altogether.

1 day ago
You totally ignore the fact that they are the one country with more UN resolutions raised against them than all other countries in the world combined.

I just report what is written by you, and you were wrong all the time. You NEVER took the time to check it at the genuine UN pages. What about your other facts, didn't you verify them either?

Quote:
Nice dodge, unfortunately nothing to do with the quote. I certainly don't remember saying that it was an excerpt from his diary?
Nice dodge? Of course you didn't say the excerpt came from his diary because you didn't know. You, again, didn't verify it. And it has everything to do with the quote.
Here's yours again:
Another little Zionist gem, another admission of criminal intent.
“The Arabs will have to go, but one needs an opportune moment for making it happen, such as war” (Ben Gurion)

I proved it was a distortion of the facts.(again)

Quote:
Here's another tidbit that "nobody said" or wrote in their diary.
"We walked outside, Ben-Gurion accompanying us. Allon repeated his question, What is to be done with the Palestinian population?' Ben-Gurion waved his hand in a gesture which said 'Drive them out!"
-- Yitzhak Rabin, leaked censored version of Rabin memoirs, published in the New York Times, 23 October 1979. Yeah, that's right, they were censored,... no doubt, another attempt to distort history.
[sarcasm] Yep, I already know,... he never said that.[/sarcasm](I must apologise, I seem to have misplaced my book of standard Zionist/Israeli denials, but having read them all enough times, I just thought that I'd demonstrate my vast knowledge and get in before you did)
No, you can find that quote in the book "The Rabin memoirs" from Rabin himself (I verified it), you can read the book here. But it is also important to say this : " Clearly, we could not leave Lod's hostile and armed populace in our rear, where it could endanger the supply route to Yiftach (another brigade) which was advancing eastward." That came before the question you quoted was asked. No sane commander wants an armed enemy behind his defensive lines!
December 4th, 2011  
VDKMS
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seehund
It will be a very long answer.
Forgive me that I use so much space - but I can´t make it much shorter.
Part 2

Quote:
Another contemporary player in the transfer debate was Leon Motzkin - who in 1897 helped to establish the Basel Program. He said in 1912 at the annual German Zionist conference: "The facts are that around Palestine there are large areas. It would be easy for the Arabs to settle there for the money they will receive from the Jews."
There's nothing wrong with that. If an Arab sells his land he could easely resettle somewhere else in the Ottoman Empire. This proves that the "Zionists" cared that the Arab who sold his property could settle somewhere else.

Quote:
After years of diplomatic activity in 1917, the Zionists got their final breakthrough. This was done by England - who a few years later was awarded the Palestine as a so-called mandate territory – who issued the Balfour Declaration, which read: (England) "look favorably on the establishment of a national home in Palestine for the Jewish people ..." It paved the way for a more realistic and pragmatic discussion of what in Zionist terminology was termed "the Arab question." Previously, the issue of transfer had a visionary nature, but was now in force of the new facts put on the real political agenda.
The quote of the Balflour letter is not exact, here's the genuine one : "His Majesty's Government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people," You can find pictures of the declaration on Google Pictures. I checked several of them bacause some are with logo and/or mark

Quote:
More then stood up and advocated openly for the transfer. Not least Zangwill, who in late 1918 and early 1919 wrote several articles in which he pointed out the necessity that the Palestinian Arabs left Palestine either voluntarily or were gradually displaced to other Arab countries..
It's important to say here that with "gradually displaced " was ment "buying out" not expell.

Quote:
The debate in the wake of the Balfour Declaration was so intense that the Zionist leadership asked for a greater degree of discretion in consideration of the item's controversial nature. During negotiations in Versailles in 1919, mentioning the transfer was avoided. But behind the scenes the Zionist intentions was not hidden.
The Arabs new the Jews were comming and were not against it. Do not forget that the Palestinian Arabs were not in high regard by the Arab leadership.
"The resources of the country (Palestine) are still virgin soil and will be developed by the Jewish immigrants. One of the most amazing things until recent times was that the Palestinian used to leave his country, wandering over the high seas in every direction. His native soil could not retain a hold on him.... At the same time, we have seen the Jews from foreign countries streaming to Palestine from Russia, Germany, Austria, Spain, and America. The cause of causes could not escape those who had a gift of deeper insight. They knew that the country was for its original sons [abna'ihi-l-asliyin], for all their differences, a sacred and beloved homeland. The return of these exiles [jaliya] to their homeland will prove materially and spiritually an experimental school for their brethren who are with them in the fields, factories, trades and all things connected to the land." Hussein Ibn-Ali, Sheriff of Mecca, Mecca's Al Qibla, in 1918.

Quote:
William Bullitt, who was a member of the U.S. delegation, later described how he repeatedly with colleagues from the Zionist delegation, including Chaim Weizmann, off of the agenda discussed various transfer plans: "While Palestine remain a Jewish state, the great Iraqi valley ... cultivated by means of a regular irrigation ... and the Arabs of Palestine will be offered the country ... as many as possible must be persuaded to move. "The proposal was submitted by Aaron Aaronsohn - member of the Zionist Executive and Director of Palestine's land development company. The only thing from the negotiations that officially was said was Weizmann's later so famous words: "Palestine shall be as Jewish as England is English."
Again some words are left out which distorts the facts somewhat. The phrase of William Bullitt was : “Many times during the Peace Conference in Paris I joined him [i.e., Aaronsohn] and Dr. Weizmann at a time while both were considering and assessing policies and plans. Aaronsohn’s proposal was the following: While Palestine must be made a Jewish state, the vast valley of Iraq, which is irrigated by the Euphrates and Tigris, should be restored, through the use of planned irrigation, to be the paradise of the world … and furthermore the Arabs of Palestine should be offered lands thereto which as many Arabs as possible should be persuaded to emigrate.” Also in Weizmann's "famous" words something is left out : "By a Jewish National Home I mean the creation of such conditions that as the country is developed we can pour in a considerable number of immigrants, and finally establish such a society in Palestine that Palestine shall be as Jewish as England is English, or America American." We all know that America is a country with a multitude of cultures. You can also read the explanation of it in the Churchill White Paper : "They would draw attention to the fact that the terms of the Declaration referred to do not contemplate that Palestine as a whole should be converted into a Jewish National Home, but that such a Home should be founded "in Palestine." In this connection it has been observed with satisfaction that at a meeting of the Zionist Congress, the supreme governing body of the Zionist Organization, held at Carlsbad in September, 1921, a resolution was passed expressing as the official statement of Zionist aims "the determination of the Jewish people to live with the Arab people on terms of unity and mutual respect, and together with them to make the common home into a flourishing community, the upbuilding of which may assure to each of its peoples an undisturbed national development"'.
 


Similar Topics
Israel rightfully own the West Bank .
Israel strikes Beirut suburb, tightens blockade
A conversation with Iranian dissident (MUST READ)
Palestinians
American racism