So why do people hate Israel?

[senojekips]

Political rights in Palestine were granted to Jews only
The “Mandate for Palestine” clearly differentiates between political rights – referring to Jewish self-determination as an emerging polity – and civil and religious rights, referring to guarantees of equal personal freedoms to non-Jewish residents as individuals and within select communities. Not once are Arabs as a people mentioned in the “Mandate for Palestine.” At no point in the entire document is there any granting of political rights to non-Jewish entities (i.e., Arabs). Article 2 of the “Mandate for Palestine” explicitly states that the Mandatory should:

“... be responsible for placing the country under such political, administrative and economic conditions as will secure the establishment of the Jewish National Home, as laid down in the preamble, and the development of self-governing institutions, and also for safeguarding the civil and religious rights of all the inhabitants of Palestine, irrespective of race and religion.”

Political rights to self-determination as a polity for Arabs were guaranteed by the League of Nations in four other mandates – in Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, and later Trans-Jordan (today Jordan). International law expert Professor Eugene V. Rostow, examining the claim for Arab Palestinian self-determination on the basis of law, concluded:

“… the mandate implicitly denies Arab claims to national political rights in the area in favor of the Jews; the mandated territory was in effect reserved to the Jewish people for their self-determination and political development, in acknowledgment of the historic connection of the Jewish people to the land. Lord Curzon, who was then the British Foreign Minister, made this reading of the mandate explicit. There remains simply the theory that the Arab inhabitants of the West Bank and the Gaza Strip have an inherent ‘natural law’ claim to the area. Neither customary international law nor the United Nations Charter acknowledges that every group of people claiming to be a nation has the right to a state of its own.”

In the first Report of the High Commissioner on the Administration of Palestine (1920-1925) presented to the British Secretary of State for the Colonies, published in April 1925, the most senior official of the Mandate, the High Commissioner for Palestine, underscored how international guarantees for the existence of a Jewish National Home in Palestine were achieved:

“The (Balfour) Declaration was endorsed at the time by several of the Allied Governments; it was reaffirmed by the Conference of the Principal Allied Powers at San Remo in 1920; it was subsequently endorsed by unanimous resolutions of both Houses of the Congress of the United States; it was embodied in the Mandate for Palestine approved by the League of Nations in 1922; it was declared, in a formal statement of policy issued by the Colonial Secretary in the same year, ‘not to be susceptible of change.’

Far from the whim of this or that politician or party, eleven successive British governments, Labor and Conservative, from David Lloyd George (1916-1922) through Clement Attlee (1945-1952) viewed themselves as duty-bound to fulfill the “Mandate for Palestine” placed in the hands of Great Britain by the League of Nations.

In 1919, in the wake of World War I, England and France as Mandatory (e.g., official administrators and mentors) carved up the former Ottoman Empire, which had collapsed a year earlier, into geographic spheres of influence. This divided the Mideast into new political entities with new names and frontiers. Territory was divided along map meridians without regard for traditional frontiers (i.e., geographic logic and sustainability) or the ethnic composition of indigenous populations.

The prevailing rationale behind these artificially created states was how they served the imperial and commercial needs of their colonial masters. Iraq and Jordan, for instance, were created as emirates to reward the noble Hashemite family from Saudi Arabia for its loyalty to the British against the Ottoman Turks during World War I, under the leadership of Lawrence of Arabia. Iraq was given to Faisal bin Hussein, son of the sheriff of Mecca, in 1918. To reward his younger brother Abdullah with an emirate, Britain cut away 77 percent of its mandate over Palestine earmarked for the Jews and gave it to Abdullah in 1922, creating the new country of Trans-Jordan or Jordan, as it was later named.

The Arabs’ hatred of the Jewish State has never been strong enough to prevent the bloody rivalries that repeatedly rock the Middle East. These conflicts were evident in the civil wars in Yemen and Lebanon, as well as in the war between Iraq and Iran, in the gassing of countless Kurds in Iraq, and in the killing of Iraqis by Iraqis. The manner in which European colonial powers carved out political entities with little regard to their ethnic composition not only led to this inter-ethnic violence, but it also encouraged dictatorial rule as the only force capable of holding such entities together.

The exception was Palestine, or Eretz-Israel – the territory between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea, where:

“The Mandatory shall be responsible for placing the country (Palestine) under such political, administrative and economic conditions as will secure the establishment of the Jewish National Home, as laid down in the preamble, and the development of self-governing institutions, and also for safeguarding the civil and religious rights of all the inhabitants of Palestine, irrespective of race and religion.”


I have no objections that people are critically or is against state of Israel
Hell, I do not agree with everything my government stands for or does.
But make sure you have the historical facts in order before you set out on a crusade.

You are somewhat of a master of the Habarat's use of obfuscation, hiding the plainly obvious truth behind all manner semi legalese "guff". Tell me how any of the rubbish you have posted above has the slightest mitigating effect against Israel's almost endless list of proven Ethnic cleansing and other human Human Rights abuses.

Even the Nazis built the world's best Autobahns and provided employment in a country that was previously a political and economic basket case,... but this has no bearing on the horrific Crimes they committed, and Israel is the same today.

You completely ignore the fact that any Jewish homeland could have only ever happened in Palestine so long as it complied with the Mandates requirement that they administer the land "in the best interests of it's people", so we all know that a legitimate Jewish homeland in Palestine was just never going to occur.

As for my views on Israel, I give Israel the same hearing that I would give any regime that behaves the way they do.
Twenty years ago, I was an ardent supporter of Israel as were most people, I think. However when the undeniable truth started to emerge as to exactly what they had done and were continuing to do, I started to look deeper, and the more I looked the less I liked what I found. Of course this caused me to watch their subsequent actions closely which of course only worsened my opinion of this rogue state.

When I find that the huge amounts of information often backed with video evidence, from multiple reputable International sources like AAP Reuters, Medecins sans Frontieres and the Red Cross/Crescent etc., all starts to coincide with the long standing and previously ignored claims of poor uneducated Palestinians, it becomes very easy to to work out who is telling the truth and who is not. The mere matter of over 200 condemnatory UN resolutions doesn't help Israel's credibility either. As I have said in another post, the single biggest nail in the Israeli coffin is the fact that the Israeli Department of Foreign affairs found it necessary to co opt members of the Military and pro Zionists around the world to "soften up" the facts in an almost futile attempt to mitigate their actions.

All the stupid threats of "anti Semitism" and calling people "Self hating Jews" coupled with attempted obfuscation of the facts, only puts more mud in Israel's eye as the great bulk of incriminating evidence just cannot be stopped, overlooked or ignored.

 

[D.J]

This is your own country's past. Remember that when you point your finger at people, there are three fingers pointing at yourself.

On January the 26th 1788 eleven British ships under the command of Captain Arthur Phillip, first Governor of the new colony, anchored on the east coast of Australia at Sydney Cove and raised the British Flag.i Known as the First Fleet the ships sailed from England on the 13th of May 1787. All told, the First Fleet carried 1,500 people comprised of convicts, crew and guards.

The invasion of Australia by the British, both convict and free, has tragic dimensions to It. On the one hand there were the convicts who were forcibly removed, uprooted and exiled from their homeland and, on the other, their presence in Australia, together with that of the free migrants, brought about the displacement of the Indigenous peoples of Australia. Worse than that, in time the Indigenous peoples were to find themselves exiled from their homeland and embroiled in a cultural dislocation, brought about by British and colonial intervention against their peoples, the evidence of which remains only too strongly with us today. Genocide went hand in hand with the policy of eugenics which in turn led to the forced removal of halfcaste children from their families, bringing about an exile upon exile. Indigenous peoples were exiled from their lands and taken into missions and then their children, often the product of rape, though also of long/short standing relationships with the white man, were dragged away from their mothers and taken thousands of miles away to be “educated”, thereby becoming doubly exiled from their familial roots. The stories that emerge from what has become known as “The Stolen Generation” are harrowing. It has often been said that Australia was built on the backs of convict slave labour. Now, we are more enlightened as to who was treated like a slave on their own land:

A whole nation who were deemed less than animals and held prisoners on their own land, with their sovereignty unrecognised by the invader. Exile, double exile, internal exile, there seems to be no name within the paradigms and terminologies of the dislocated, exiled, dispossessed that you use today, for the kind of treatment meted out to the Indigenous peoples of Australia. The same is true of First Nation peoples in all countries invaded by Western Empires; one thinks of North America, Canada and South America. What shocks here is that in the case of the Indigenous peoples of Australia abuse was going on under our noses in the twentieth century and still has not been truly remedied in the present. The harm continues in later generations, affecting their children and grandchildren.

As far as the convicts were concerned, once they had served their sentence, they were free to join society, become small landholders, retailers, labourers, carpenters,
domestics and a few even founded wealthy family dynasties.No such possibility was open to the Indigenous owners of “Terra Nullius”, a term used by the British to occupy Australia and establish their sovereignty over it. They were to remain the “dying race”, an epithet of convenience, and when they did not become extinct they then became “the Aboriginal problem”, but by then the convicts were part of a history that Australia preferred to skeletonise in the cupboard. In recent decades, however, it has become fashionable to have a convict ancestor or, even better two, as it denotes the “Old”, the “First” Australians, as opposed to those who arrived much later.


I'm not blind. I know that abuses are committed. I have fought in this conflict for many years. Violence tends to escalate - no excuse just a fact. All who have fought in an unconventional war know how difficult it is.

I wonder if we'd had this discussion if Israel was founded in 1848 or maybe 1748 ?

 

[senojekips]

This is your own country's past. Remember that when you point your finger at people, there are three fingers pointing at yourself.

On January the 26th 1788 eleven British ships under the command of Captain Arthur Phillip, first Governor of the new colony, anchored on the east coast of Australia at Sydney Cove and raised the British Flag.i Known as the First Fleet the ships sailed from England on the 13th of May 1787. All told, the First Fleet carried 1,500 people comprised of convicts, crew and guards.

The invasion of Australia by the British, both convict and free, has tragic dimensions to It. On the one hand there were the convicts who were forcibly removed, uprooted and exiled from their homeland and, on the other, their presence in Australia, together with that of the free migrants, brought about the displacement of the Indigenous peoples of Australia. Worse than that, in time the Indigenous peoples were to find themselves exiled from their homeland and embroiled in a cultural dislocation, brought about by British and colonial intervention against their peoples, the evidence of which remains only too strongly with us today. Genocide went hand in hand with the policy of eugenics which in turn led to the forced removal of halfcaste children from their families, bringing about an exile upon exile. Indigenous peoples were exiled from their lands and taken into missions and then their children, often the product of rape, though also of long/short standing relationships with the white man, were dragged away from their mothers and taken thousands of miles away to be “educated”, thereby becoming doubly exiled from their familial roots. The stories that emerge from what has become known as “The Stolen Generation” are harrowing. It has often been said that Australia was built on the backs of convict slave labour. Now, we are more enlightened as to who was treated like a slave on their own land:

A whole nation who were deemed less than animals and held prisoners on their own land, with their sovereignty unrecognised by the invader. Exile, double exile, internal exile, there seems to be no name within the paradigms and terminologies of the dislocated, exiled, dispossessed that you use today, for the kind of treatment meted out to the Indigenous peoples of Australia. The same is true of First Nation peoples in all countries invaded by Western Empires; one thinks of North America, Canada and South America. What shocks here is that in the case of the Indigenous peoples of Australia abuse was going on under our noses in the twentieth century and still has not been truly remedied in the present. The harm continues in later generations, affecting their children and grandchildren.

As far as the convicts were concerned, once they had served their sentence, they were free to join society, become small landholders, retailers, labourers, carpenters,
domestics and a few even founded wealthy family dynasties.No such possibility was open to the Indigenous owners of “Terra Nullius”, a term used by the British to occupy Australia and establish their sovereignty over it. They were to remain the “dying race”, an epithet of convenience, and when they did not become extinct they then became “the Aboriginal problem”, but by then the convicts were part of a history that Australia preferred to skeletonise in the cupboard. In recent decades, however, it has become fashionable to have a convict ancestor or, even better two, as it denotes the “Old”, the “First” Australians, as opposed to those who arrived much later.


I'm not blind. I know that abuses are committed. I have fought in this conflict for many years. Violence tends to escalate - no excuse just a fact. All who have fought in an unconventional war know how difficult it is.

I wonder if we'd had this discussion if Israel was founded in 1848 or maybe 1748 ?

No of course we wouldn't have, because it was considered as acceptable behaviour at that time.

Your rather inane argument has been answered on this forum a number of times and by me personally at least twice.

When Britain undertook the colonisation of Australia there were no International laws or conventions forbidding it, in fact it was not even considered improper the colonisers viewing it as beneficial to the native population, which in fact for the greater part it has proven to be, as none of the Aboriginal population want to forsake the benefits to return to their nomadic ways. There were at the time a number of other nations doing the same thing and had the Brits not settled Australia, the Dutch, Spanish, Portuguese or Indonesians would have.

In view of what is known now, I think you'll find that our Native population got the best of a bad lot. No, this in no way justifies it, but had someone else colonised it, I think you'll find that it was the best solution all around.

In Australia it was made a Capital offence to murder an Aboriginal in cold blood in 1832, nearly 120 years before Israel was even declared, and they are still killing innocent Arabs to this day. The first whites hung for this offence were in 1838 and they had been on the run in the trackless wastes for over 4 years before being actively hunted down. I defy you to find me one Palestinian who would rather be under Israeli domination than living as an Australian Immigrant.

Just on the news a week ago it was revealed that the Illegal immigrants at present undergoing examination in Australia were costing the Australian taxpayers A$14 million dollars per quarter,... for confectionery, sporting materials, Internet, Tobacco and other home "comforts" alone. There is absolutely no similarity in our situations.

 

[VDKMS]

The Palestinians only administer their people, just as the Jewish Councils administered their people in the Ghettos, another totally meaningless Zionazi "factoid". The fact is that Israel is at best regarded by the International community as legally questionable and at worst as an illegally occupied area, the occupiers of which form a pariah state despised and distrusted in all their dealings, their word like that of it's supporters, not being worth the paper it's written on.

You can present your "facts" in pastel colours all dipped in candy coating and rolled in sugar but the fact remains that like the nazis who re wrote their own laws to suit their purposes, Israel is still the worlds worst rogue state regarding Human Rights abuses and outright lies, we needn't even bother about ethic cleansing etc., as in Nazi Germany where persecution of the Jews was 100% legal.

Don't even bother telling us about "legal" anything, to do with this matter, as Israel has been shown to have never abided by any National or International Law, Convention or Ruling of any body other than where it suits their purpose, hence over 200 condemnatory UN resolutions against them.

Nothing you can say or do excuses the Israeli's Nazi like behaviour and that of the US who backs them. To be fair, the US is very slowly realising the error of it's past ways in this regard and more and more we are seeing them falling out of love. No doubt there will come a day when a combination of International moral outrage and common sense on the part of the US will see Israel cut loose.

Amen.

Allways the same sermon.

 

[senojekips]

Amen.

Allways the same sermon.

Of course it's the same,... that's because the facts don't change.

Unless of course you are a Hasbara Troll, that being the case, anything at all can be stated as a fact.

 

[VDKMS]

Of course it's the same,... that's because the facts don't change.

True, but why don't you believe the facts?

Unless of course you are a Hasbara Troll, that being the case, anything at all can be stated as a fact.

I'm not a Hasbara Troll, unless you are brainwashed of course.

 

[senojekips]

True, but why don't you believe the facts?

Believe them? Why else do I constantly quote them in defiance of your childish attempts at Hasbara.

I'm not a Hasbara Troll, unless you are brainwashed of course.

I don't even have to bother answering that, you have proven to all, that you are, time and time again.

 

[VDKMS]

Believe them? Why else do I constantly quote them in defiance of your childish attempts at Hasbara.

You constantly quote opinions, not facts.

Show me one fact of a Palestinian government before Israel was founded.

Show me one fact that states that the firing of Palestinian rockets at a civilian town is called "defense".

You say it is defense because it is their land, then show me a fact that prooves this like : name of the country, Prime minister, capital, founding date, type of government.

I don't even have to bother answering that, you have proven to all, that you are, time and time again.

Again an opinion, not a fact.

 

[senojekips]

You constantly quote opinions, not facts.

Show me one fact of a Palestinian government before Israel was founded.

Show me one fact that states that the firing of Palestinian rockets at a civilian town is called "defense".

You say it is defense because it is their land, then show me a fact that prooves this like : name of the country, Prime minister, capital, founding date, type of government.

Again an opinion, not a fact.

I should ignore this inanity as this has been pointed to you out on at least two previous occasions by several persons on this forum. The fact that there was not a Palestinian State has no bearing whatsoever on a people's right to legally resist any illegal occupier of their land.

It's a fact, just that you are too "dense" to realise it.

 

[charlylynx]

The real problem with Israel

I think what you all fail to realize or forget is that this is a religious war. Not Zionist vs. Muslims, but good vs. evil. The Jews are fighting for survival against a religion that is determined to kill them all. I mean every man woman and child with glee. When you see old women party in the streets at the fall of the twin towers or an aircraft go down from a suicide bomber you should begin to realize the mind set these people have. I don't mean some of them, I mean a vast majority. The Muslims play so many dirty tricks and manipulate the western minds (so well and easily) that the world is beginning to heed their 'plea' and join in on the hate mongering. Jews do not target schools and civilians directly as the Muslims do and are surrounded by people that hate them and us to the point of madness giving their children up for suicide attacks and worse.
The Bible explains all this and its ultimate outcome and that any nation that supports Israel will prosper and those who don't do not. As we slowly are being taught to join the enemies of Israel you will see our decline increase at a faster rate which is what will happen and is happening now. Most Christians support Israel and pray for their safety, and as Christians become targeted and are persecuted more and more in our country you will see Israel's decline increase till they are finally overcome thru political subterfuge.This too is also prophesied in the Bible as many other things currently occurring in the middle east but the 'new found wealth' of oil is the impetus for the conflict. Israel's newly discovered oilfields will bring even more conflict to their nation as the greed of world leaders including ours will cause further escalation of hostilities to the area. Praying for Israel is our only hope for our nation as well as theirs.

 

[senojekips]

I think what you all fail to realize or forget is that this is a religious war. Not Zionist vs. Muslims, but good vs. evil.

If you actually believe all that BS, you don't deserve to draw breath.

Read back through these posts, or better still read some history and forget the propaganda.

There is an element of good Vs evil, but it involves a group of religious nut cases claiming a land as theirs that they had not lived in as a majority for over 1200 years.

 

[MontyB]

I think what you all fail to realize or forget is that this is a religious war. Not Zionist vs. Muslims, but good vs. evil. The Jews are fighting for survival against a religion that is determined to kill them all. I mean every man woman and child with glee. When you see old women party in the streets at the fall of the twin towers or an aircraft go down from a suicide bomber you should begin to realize the mind set these people have. I don't mean some of them, I mean a vast majority. The Muslims play so many dirty tricks and manipulate the western minds (so well and easily) that the world is beginning to heed their 'plea' and join in on the hate mongering. Jews do not target schools and civilians directly as the Muslims do and are surrounded by people that hate them and us to the point of madness giving their children up for suicide attacks and worse.
The Bible explains all this and its ultimate outcome and that any nation that supports Israel will prosper and those who don't do not. As we slowly are being taught to join the enemies of Israel you will see our decline increase at a faster rate which is what will happen and is happening now. Most Christians support Israel and pray for their safety, and as Christians become targeted and are persecuted more and more in our country you will see Israel's decline increase till they are finally overcome thru political subterfuge.This too is also prophesied in the Bible as many other things currently occurring in the middle east but the 'new found wealth' of oil is the impetus for the conflict. Israel's newly discovered oilfields will bring even more conflict to their nation as the greed of world leaders including ours will cause further escalation of hostilities to the area. Praying for Israel is our only hope for our nation as well as theirs.

Intriguing, I have just spent the better part of a month in Jordan and Egypt with a couple of days in the West Bank and at no stage was I targeted or persecuted and I found the Jordanians, Egyptians and Palestinians to be very friendly and accommodating.

I have to admit after VD has spent so much time tell us that Palestinians don't exist I was a little confused when I found a bunch of them in the West Bank I figured they would just be cardboard cutouts but no there they were living and breathing and imagine my surprise when I bumped into a 1300 year old Mosque for a people that apparently don't exist, boy they really seem to be taking that scam a bit far.
Seems that story doesn't stack up VD you may want to try a new line there.

 

[VDKMS]

Intriguing, I have just spent the better part of a month in Jordan and Egypt with a couple of days in the West Bank and at no stage was I targeted or persecuted and I found the Jordanians, Egyptians and Palestinians to be very friendly and accommodating.

I have to admit after VD has spent so much time tell us that Palestinians don't exist I was a little confused when I found a bunch of them in the West Bank I figured they would just be cardboard cutouts but no there they were living and breathing and imagine my surprise when I bumped into a 1300 year old Mosque for a people that apparently don't exist, boy they really seem to be taking that scam a bit far.
Seems that story doesn't stack up VD you may want to try a new line there.

That mosque canot be a Palestinian one because at that time there were no Palestinians. Arafat invented the Palestinians. It was propably build or rebuild by either Jews and/or Christians who converted to Islam or by muslim arab invaders. Did they also told you that there was a synagoge in the West Bank that predates all mosques by approx 100 years? Or worse, a synagoge just outside Jericho (Wadi Qelt) that was build between 70 and 50 BC?

Muslim societies build mosques.
Jewish societies build sunagogues.

What cities did you visit in Jordan and the West Bank?

 

[VDKMS]

If you actually believe all that BS, you don't deserve to draw breath.

Read back through these posts, or better still read some history and forget the propaganda.

There is an element of good Vs evil, but it involves a group of religious nut cases claiming a land as theirs that they had not lived in as a majority for over 1200 years.

and a group of religious nut cases originating from nowadays Saudi Arabia who invaded that country and expelled or killed everyone who wouldn't convert or wouldn't pay extra taxes as non-muslim and are now surprised that the expelled society comes back to reclaim what was once theirs.

Did the "Palestinians" revolted aginst Jordan or Egypt when their "land" was occupied (even annexed) by those countries? NO! Why? Because they were muslim. Jews are not muslims, that's what this conflict is all about. It's religious.

 

[senojekips]

and a group of religious nut cases originating from nowadays Saudi Arabia who invaded that country and expelled or killed everyone who wouldn't convert or wouldn't pay extra taxes as non-muslim and are now surprised that the expelled society comes back to reclaim what was once theirs.

Did the "Palestinians" revolted aginst Jordan or Egypt when their "land" was occupied (even annexed) by those countries? NO! Why? Because they were muslim. Jews are not muslims, that's what this conflict is all about. It's religious.

No, the Zionists are occupiers, nothing to do with religion. My own Gt grandfather's family lived among the Arab Palestinians without any problems until the coming of the Zionists.

Once again, all been said before,... Your merry go round is fuct, you've run out of lies. :lol:

 

[D.J]

Israel first became a nation in 1312 B.C.E., two thousand years before the rise of Islam! Seven hundred and twenty-six years later in 586 B.C.E. these first ancient Jews in the Land of Israel (Judea) were overrun and Israel's First Jewish Temple (on Jerusalem's Old City Temple Mount) was destroyed by Nebuchadnezzar, king of ancient Babylon. Many of the Jews were killed or expelled; however many were allowed to remain. These Jews along with their progeny and other Jews who would resettle over the next 500 years, rebuilt the Nation of Israel and also a Second Temple in Jerusalem upon the Temple Mount. Thus the claim that Jews suddenly appeared fifty years ago right after the Holocaust and drove out the Arabs is preposterous!

Then in 70 C.E., it was the Roman Empire's turn to march through ancient Israel and destroy the SECOND Jewish Temple, slaughtering or driving out much of its Jewish population. Many Jews left on their own because conditions for life were made unbearable in many respects... yet thousands upon thousands stayed and rebelled on for centuries in order to once again rebuild a Jewish Nation in this Holy Land. Over 3250 years, various Peoples, Religions and Empires marched through Jerusalem, Israel's ancient capital. The region was successively ruled by the Hebrews (Jews), Assyrians, Babylonians, Persians, Greeks, Maccabeans, Romans, Byzantines, Arabs, Egyptians, the Crusaders, Mamelukes, the Turks (who indifferently governed the backward, neglected territory from the 16th century until the British drove them out during World War I) and then once again by the Jews in 1948. None bothered, nor were they in the least bit inclined, to build a Nation of their own... EXCEPT the Jews!

No nation, other than the ancient nation of Israel and later again in 1948 with the rebirth of the 2nd Nation of Israel, has ever ruled as a sovereign national entity on this land. A mighty Jewish empire extended over this entire area before the Arabs (and their Islam) were even born! The Jewish People have one of the most legitimate Birth Certificates of any nations in the world. Every time there is an archaeological dig in Israel, it does nothing but support the fact that the Jewish People have had a presence there for well over 3,000 years. The national coins, the pottery, the cities, the ancient Hebrew texts... all support this claim. Yes, other peoples have passed through, but there is no mistaking the fact that Jews have always had a continual presence in that land for over 3,000 years. This predates and certain dwarfs any claims that other peoples in the regions may have.

The term "Palestine" came from the name that the conquering Roman Empire gave the ancient Land of Israel in an attempt to obliterate and de-legitimize the Jewish presence in the Holy Land. The name "Palestine" was invented in the year 135 C.E. Before it was known as Judea, which was the southern kingdom of ancient Israel. The Roman Procurator in charge of the Judean-Israel territories was so angry at the Jews for revolting that he called for his historians and asked them who were the worst enemies of the Jews in their past history. The scribes said, "the Philistines." Thus, the Procurator declared that Land of Israel would from then forward be called "Philistia" (further bastardized into "Palaistina") to dishonor the Jews and obliterate their history. Hence the name "Palestine." The name "Falastin" that Arabs today use for "Palestine" is not an Arabic name. It is the Arab pronunciation of the Greco-Roman "Palastina"; which is derived from the Plesheth, (root palash) was a general term meaning rolling or migratory. This referred to the Philistine's invasion and conquest of the coast from the sea. The name "Palestine" was associated with Jews. In the years leading up to the rebirth of Israel in 1948, those who spoke of "Palestinians" were nearly always referring to the region's Jewish residents. For example, the "Palestine Post" (forerunner of today's Jerusalem Post) newspaper and the Palestine Symphony Orchestra were all-Jewish. The[FONT=&quot]“Palestine Brigade Regiment”[/FONT] was composed exclusively of Jewish volunteers in the British World War II Army. In fact, Arab leaders rejected the notion of a unique "Palestinian Arab" identity, insisting that Palestine was merely a part of "Greater Syria."

There was no "Arab Palestinian" history before the Arabs manufactured one shortly after 1948, and then especially after the June 1967 Arab-Israeli War! In an interview with the Dutch newspaper "Trau" (March 31, 1977), PLO executive committee member Zahir Muhsein said, "The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct 'Palestinian people' to oppose Zionism. It is also been a "conceptual" war for ownership of the term "Palestinian" which has been transferred over to the Arabs whereas, before 1967, "Palestine" has always been synonymous with Eretz Israel and the Land of Israel.

The so-called "Palestinian" Arabs were simply then, as they are now, Arabs no different culturally, historically or ethnically from other Arabs living in any of the 24 Arab countries from which they emigrated. The suggestion that the "Palestinians" are some sub-group of Arabs with their own unique identity is pure fiction! Great propaganda... but still pure fiction! And had not the Arabs continued to brainwash generation upon generation into believing this historical hogwash about some ancient "Arab Palestinian" ties to the Holy Land, most could have gotten themselves a real life by now with much less bloodshed and suffering for everyone concerned! The real problem facing those Arabs today is not the lack of a homeland. The historical root-cause of their problem and frustration is the fact that the countries they came from have not agreed to accept them back in. This is why so many of them live, up until today, in refugee camps, in neighboring Arab countries, lacking fundamental civil rights.

 

[MontyB]

That mosque canot be a Palestinian one because at that time there were no Palestinians. Arafat invented the Palestinians. It was propably build or rebuild by either Jews and/or Christians who converted to Islam or by muslim arab invaders. Did they also told you that there was a synagoge in the West Bank that predates all mosques by approx 100 years? Or worse, a synagoge just outside Jericho (Wadi Qelt) that was build between 70 and 50 BC?

Muslim societies build mosques.
Jewish societies build sunagogues.

What cities did you visit in Jordan and the West Bank?

I see you are still dancing around reality by playing with semantics, Palestinians are what the inhabitants of the region known as Palestine have called themselves.
Now you can bleat on about what is real and what isn't but I would suggest that the reason they have chosen to give themselves a name is because they have identified a national conscience as every people have done throughout history should we argue that "French" are an invented people as France did not exist when Cesar invaded it, maybe the Germans are invented as I have never seen Germany on a map before 1870.

No we wont call them invented because we know and accept that the French are a name given to the grouping of what became Frankish tribes and the Germans are people that eventuated from the Germanic tribes all just names given to a region and as such the Palestinians are those living in the region known to the world as Palestine.

So please stop dancing on eggshells with these stupid arguments.

 

[senojekips]

Israel first became a nation in 1312 B.C.E., two thousand years before the rise of Islam!

Nice try, but childishly simplistic.

It's nothing to do with Islam, that is only a religion that the majority (not all) of Palestinians have adopted. It has no bearing whatsoever on the debate, and is a typical red herring used by Hasbara trolls such as yourself.

If that is not the case, then, there was no "Israel" until 14 May 1948.

 

[hamidreza]

Israel first became a nation in 1312 B.C.E., two thousand years before the rise of Islam! Seven hundred and twenty-six years later in 586 B.C.E. these first ancient Jews in the Land of Israel (Judea) were overrun and Israel's First Jewish Temple (on Jerusalem's Old City Temple Mount) was destroyed by Nebuchadnezzar, king of ancient Babylon. Many of the Jews were killed or expelled; however many were allowed to remain. These Jews along with their progeny and other Jews who would resettle over the next 500 years, rebuilt the Nation of Israel and also a Second Temple in Jerusalem upon the Temple Mount. Thus the claim that Jews suddenly appeared fifty years ago right after the Holocaust and drove out the Arabs is preposterous!

Then in 70 C.E., it was the Roman Empire's turn to march through ancient Israel and destroy the SECOND Jewish Temple, slaughtering or driving out much of its Jewish population. Many Jews left on their own because conditions for life were made unbearable in many respects... yet thousands upon thousands stayed and rebelled on for centuries in order to once again rebuild a Jewish Nation in this Holy Land. Over 3250 years, various Peoples, Religions and Empires marched through Jerusalem, Israel's ancient capital. The region was successively ruled by the Hebrews (Jews), Assyrians, Babylonians, Persians, Greeks, Maccabeans, Romans, Byzantines, Arabs, Egyptians, the Crusaders, Mamelukes, the Turks (who indifferently governed the backward, neglected territory from the 16th century until the British drove them out during World War I) and then once again by the Jews in 1948. None bothered, nor were they in the least bit inclined, to build a Nation of their own... EXCEPT the Jews!

No nation, other than the ancient nation of Israel and later again in 1948 with the rebirth of the 2nd Nation of Israel, has ever ruled as a sovereign national entity on this land. A mighty Jewish empire extended over this entire area before the Arabs (and their Islam) were even born! The Jewish People have one of the most legitimate Birth Certificates of any nations in the world. Every time there is an archaeological dig in Israel, it does nothing but support the fact that the Jewish People have had a presence there for well over 3,000 years. The national coins, the pottery, the cities, the ancient Hebrew texts... all support this claim. Yes, other peoples have passed through, but there is no mistaking the fact that Jews have always had a continual presence in that land for over 3,000 years. This predates and certain dwarfs any claims that other peoples in the regions may have.

The term "Palestine" came from the name that the conquering Roman Empire gave the ancient Land of Israel in an attempt to obliterate and de-legitimize the Jewish presence in the Holy Land. The name "Palestine" was invented in the year 135 C.E. Before it was known as Judea, which was the southern kingdom of ancient Israel. The Roman Procurator in charge of the Judean-Israel territories was so angry at the Jews for revolting that he called for his historians and asked them who were the worst enemies of the Jews in their past history. The scribes said, "the Philistines." Thus, the Procurator declared that Land of Israel would from then forward be called "Philistia" (further bastardized into "Palaistina") to dishonor the Jews and obliterate their history. Hence the name "Palestine." The name "Falastin" that Arabs today use for "Palestine" is not an Arabic name. It is the Arab pronunciation of the Greco-Roman "Palastina"; which is derived from the Plesheth, (root palash) was a general term meaning rolling or migratory. This referred to the Philistine's invasion and conquest of the coast from the sea. The name "Palestine" was associated with Jews. In the years leading up to the rebirth of Israel in 1948, those who spoke of "Palestinians" were nearly always referring to the region's Jewish residents. For example, the "Palestine Post" (forerunner of today's Jerusalem Post) newspaper and the Palestine Symphony Orchestra were all-Jewish. The[FONT=&quot]“Palestine Brigade Regiment”[/FONT] was composed exclusively of Jewish volunteers in the British World War II Army. In fact, Arab leaders rejected the notion of a unique "Palestinian Arab" identity, insisting that Palestine was merely a part of "Greater Syria."

There was no "Arab Palestinian" history before the Arabs manufactured one shortly after 1948, and then especially after the June 1967 Arab-Israeli War! In an interview with the Dutch newspaper "Trau" (March 31, 1977), PLO executive committee member Zahir Muhsein said, "The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct 'Palestinian people' to oppose Zionism. It is also been a "conceptual" war for ownership of the term "Palestinian" which has been transferred over to the Arabs whereas, before 1967, "Palestine" has always been synonymous with Eretz Israel and the Land of Israel.

The so-called "Palestinian" Arabs were simply then, as they are now, Arabs no different culturally, historically or ethnically from other Arabs living in any of the 24 Arab countries from which they emigrated. The suggestion that the "Palestinians" are some sub-group of Arabs with their own unique identity is pure fiction! Great propaganda... but still pure fiction! And had not the Arabs continued to brainwash generation upon generation into believing this historical hogwash about some ancient "Arab Palestinian" ties to the Holy Land, most could have gotten themselves a real life by now with much less bloodshed and suffering for everyone concerned! The real problem facing those Arabs today is not the lack of a homeland. The historical root-cause of their problem and frustration is the fact that the countries they came from have not agreed to accept them back in. This is why so many of them live, up until today, in refugee camps, in neighboring Arab countries, lacking fundamental civil rights.

So the conclusion is Palestinians did mistake. They should have said to Jews: " Yes you Jews are right, this land is yours, we should leave it because it belonged to your ancestors 3000 years ago! and you should come back to recapture it!". And then Jews from all over the world should come back to Israel to reestablish the state they had 2000 or 3000 years ago! ( the thing they claim not us).
It is the idealist pro-Israelis opinion about Palestine and the stupidest too.

 

[VDKMS]

I see you are still dancing around reality by playing with semantics, Palestinians are what the inhabitants of the region known as Palestine have called themselves.
Now you can bleat on about what is real and what isn't but I would suggest that the reason they have chosen to give themselves a name is because they have identified a national conscience as every people have done throughout history should we argue that "French" are an invented people as France did not exist when Cesar invaded it, maybe the Germans are invented as I have never seen Germany on a map before 1870.

Nice try but you missed the point. The Gauls or Gallic people, ancestors of the French and Belgians, fought against the invaders to preserve their "country". (there never were Romans before in that region). Caesar called what is nowadays Germany , Germania. The "Palestinians" never fought to preserve their country because they never had one , untill Israel gave them one, the first ever in their history! The fight against the Jews has nothing todo with their country but with religion. Non-muslims are not allowed to rule on muslim ground. That is also the reason why the "Palestinians" want Jerusalem as their capital, it is the birthplace of two well known religions and the muslims want to control that.

No we wont call them invented because we know and accept that the French are a name given to the grouping of what became Frankish tribes and the Germans are people that eventuated from the Germanic tribes all just names given to a region and as such the Palestinians are those living in the region known to the world as Palestine.

Wrong, the Franks were Germans who conquered Gaul in the 6th century. It was the Franks who stopped the muslim invasion of Europe by beating their "invincible" cavalry with infantry. The muslim invaders were so terrified that they fled head over heels only to find out that their camp was destroyed by Frankish cavalry.

So please stop dancing on eggshells with these stupid arguments.

Better learn some historical facts.

Nice try, but childishly simplistic.

It's nothing to do with Islam, that is only a religion that the majority (not all) of Palestinians have adopted. It has no bearing whatsoever on the debate, and is a typical red herring used by Hasbara trolls such as yourself.

If that is not the case, then, there was no "Israel" until 14 May 1948.

If it has nothing to do with Islam then why is the Palestinian constitution based on sharia law? Chapter 1 Article 4-2 : The principles of Islamic Shari’a shall be the main source of legislation.
And why are radical muslim clerics on the official Palestinian TV calling for everyone to attack the Jews. Even the children programs are filled with it.

Off course, if you close your eyes for the truth you will never know it.

@D.J

Nice article. Minor correction : the Dutch magazine is called "Trouw" instead of "Trau".

So the conclusion is Palestinians did mistake. They should have said to Jews: " Yes you Jews are right, this land is yours, we should leave it because it belonged to your ancestors 3000 years ago! and you should come back to recapture it!". And then Jews from all over the world should come back to Israel to reestablish the state they had 2000 or 3000 years ago! ( the thing they claim not us).
It is the idealist pro-Israelis opinion about Palestine and the stupidest too.

The facts are a little bit different. The Jews didn't invade any country and the Palestinians were just living there under the rule of the Turks and later the International community (British Mandate). The Jews fought for their country, the Palestinians were just waiting for another ruler, but the problem was that the other ruler was non-muslim and that was not allowed according to their faith. The uprisings were instigated by muslim clerics not patriots who wanted to defend their country.