So why do people hate Israel? - Page 64




 
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May 13th, 2012  
senojekips
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by VDKMS
No, including me.
Or to be more precise, you and the other pro Zionists.
Quote:
Originally Posted by VDKMS
I did not forget. It's Israel and for two reasons.
1 - because the Arabs won't let the Jews back in either.
Of course, they have to return to their own (Palestine) land, not someone else's like the Israelis did.
Quote:
Originally Posted by VDKMS
2 - it happend before :letter from Benjamin Franklin to Richard Oswald November 26 1782: (Memoirs of Benjamin Franklin)
WTF has this to do with it? Benjamin Franklin was neither a Zionist nor a Palestinian.
Quote:
Originally Posted by VDKMS
Yes you are exaggerating.
No, it's just that you realise I'm telling the undemiable truth and you don't like it. As I've said several times, there is absolutely no reason why a people should just give their lland to an invader. Something you know is correct and are too embarrassed and/or arrogant to admit

Quote:
Originally Posted by VDKMS
There are two reasons for uprooted Olive trees:
1 - illegally planted, they have to be removed.
2 - destroyed by religious fanatic Israelis, a crime.
Both destructions are almost neglectible considering the amount of olive trees in the West Bank. 10 Million olive trees for 100.000 families!
How can you illegally plant trees (over 300 years old) on your own land?

We know why they are being uprooted, spite and expansion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1400 Olives ordered to be destroyed
But, even with 10,000 dunums of agricultural land, the village's full farming capacity is weakened by Israel's military and civilian occupation. Nearby, eight settlements are built on, or adjacent to, a total of 15,000 dunums of Palestinian land. "From my parents' house we can see were they built a settlement on our land,"
You are fooling no one but yourself. Oh, sorry.... and your murdering thieving Zionist friends.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VDKMS
Israel is accepted throughout the world (exept Moslim countries). It's the best working democracy in the ME. They will get western support as long as is needed.
It has already been shown several times that Israel is not a democracy in the true sense, being only a democracy for the Jews. There are different laws for Jews and Palestinians regarding almost every facet of life, from purchase of land, where one can live, standards of education, whole arab villages unrecognised and no social services,... I could go on for ever and have listed many before , but as usual, like your Zionist friends you have a poor memory for facts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VDKMS
Where are the borders of their land and who drew them? The Aboriginals were given property rights in the Native Title Act of 1993. If you "own" the land why is it that someone else gives you property rights?
Because they had previously been ignored, and their Rights were officially returned and recognised in Law.
May 13th, 2012  
RayManKiller3
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yossarian

Either this a endless debate about a serious topic, or I am in a room full of journalists.

Can it be both? I recognize that this topic is just going in circles. I don't even know why I bothered trying to get, Seno, to understand the differences of Australian Aboriginals and Palestinians.
May 14th, 2012  
VDKMS
 
Let us recapitulise seno's logic:

Shooting rockets at a civilian town is called defense.
Demolishing solar panels built without a permit is a crime.

Someone does not need property ownership to own land.
Someone's proof of property ownership is not valid.

Never having a country is allowed to claim one.
Historical facts of a former country are rejected.

The first society on a piece of land owns it
The nth society on a piece of land owns it.
The society on a piece of land before the nth cannot own it.

References to Australia, different in nature, is vallid.
References to USA, same in nature, is not vallid.

UN decisions anti Israel are manifest.
UN decisions pro Israel are rejected.

One group is allowed to immigrate in Palestine, another is not.

Refugees from a certain group must be allowed to return.
Refugees from another group are not allowed to return.

Properties from refugees managed until return is illegal.
Properties and finances from refugees confiscated is allowed.

A country where all groups can vote and participate in government is not a democracy.

In order to see the full picture you must focus on the minority


Just fill in who is who yourself.

My conclusion is : racism
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May 14th, 2012  
Yossarian
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by VDKMS
Let us recapitulise seno's logic:

Shooting rockets at a civilian town is called defense.
Demolishing solar panels built without a permit is a crime.

Someone does not need property ownership to own land.
Someone's proof of property ownership is not valid.

Never having a country is allowed to claim one.
Historical facts of a former country are rejected.

The first society on a piece of land owns it
The nth society on a piece of land owns it.
The society on a piece of land before the nth cannot own it.

References to Australia, different in nature, is vallid.
References to USA, same in nature, is not vallid.

UN decisions anti Israel are manifest.
UN decisions pro Israel are rejected.

One group is allowed to immigrate in Palestine, another is not.

Refugees from a certain group must be allowed to return.
Refugees from another group are not allowed to return.

Properties from refugees managed until return is illegal.
Properties and finances from refugees confiscated is allowed.

A country where all groups can vote and participate in government is not a democracy.

In order to see the full picture you must focus on the minority


Just fill in who is who yourself.

My conclusion is : racism

I don't care about the lot of these opinions, this thread is a endless circle, and on a grand scale seems to mirror the real conflict going on there to surprising detail.

Call me nostaligic but I vote for Isolationism.
May 14th, 2012  
senojekips
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yossarian
I don't care about the lot of these opinions, this thread is a endless circle, and on a grand scale seems to mirror the real conflict going on there to surprising detail.

Call me nostaligic but I vote for Isolationism.
A quick scan through VD's last post and common knowledge of the truth of the matter will clearly demonstrate who the racist is. Notwithstanding the simple fact that Israelis are not a race to begin with, any more than Nazis were.

Every statement he made has previously been shown to be false, I'm not going to re answer every statement as they are all in a similar vein, but as an example we'll start with number one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by VDKMS
Shooting rockets at a civilian town is called defense.
Demolishing solar panels built without a permit is a crime.
The Palestinians shoot Rockets because like any people they have the right to resist an occupier. other than which, 90% of the "rockets" are no more than home made fireworks, and to this end one only has to look at the number of Israelis who have been killed by these thousands of rockets.
Quote:
Between 2001 and January 2009, over 8,600 rockets had been launched, leading to (by Israeli count) 28 deaths and several hundred injuries http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palesti...acks_on_Israel
In the period 2000 - 2012, Israeli civilians have killed 46 Palestinians, the IDF another 6,472 (Quote from B'Tselem http://old.btselem.org/statistics/en...Casualties.asp)
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Regarding the solar panels, there was no absolutely illegality, as Israel has no right to make laws in occupied areas, unless for it's own security or to benefit the local population.
The fact is that this act by the Israelis was,...
(1)In retaliation for the local Palestinians who complained about the ongoing expansion of illegal settlements on their land.
(2) To drive the Palestinians of their land to facilitate the above.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Guardian
One UN expert, speaking anonymously as they are not authorised to talk to the media, believes the crackdown on the alternative energy movement by the Israelis is part of a deliberate strategy in Area C. "From December 2010 to April 2011, we saw a systematic targeting of the water infrastructure in Hebron, Bethlehem and the Jordan valley," the source said. "Now, in the last couple of months, they are targeting electricity. Two villages in the area have had their electrical poles demolished.
"There is this systematic effort by the civil administration targeting all Palestinian infrastructure in Hebron. They are hoping that by making it miserable enough, they [the Palestinians] will pick up and leave." Source: http://www.guardian.co.uk/global-dev...e-solar-panels
May 15th, 2012  
r.fox
 
 
this is that kind of talk that starts wars...
May 15th, 2012  
senojekips
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by r.fox
this is that kind of talk that starts wars...
I dunno where you've been for the last 60 years,... but if you care to read the papers and watch the news you'll see that it already has.

Virtually all of today's Global Islamic terrorism is a direct result of Muslim sensibilities having been inflamed by US support of Israel against the Palestinians.
May 15th, 2012  
VDKMS
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yossarian
I don't care about the lot of these opinions, this thread is a endless circle, and on a grand scale seems to mirror the real conflict going on there to surprising detail.

Call me nostaligic but I vote for Isolationism.
I vote for the opposite: globalism. I think in the world of today isolationism is suicide. No country in the world can keep its wealth when they change to isolationism, unless you mean one world, one country. But then I would vote for "galactionism".

One world, one country would solve the israel/palestine conflict and many others. But it is wishful thinking.
May 15th, 2012  
VDKMS
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by senojekips
A quick scan through VD's last post and common knowledge of the truth of the matter will clearly demonstrate who the racist is. Notwithstanding the simple fact that Israelis are not a race to begin with, any more than Nazis were.

Every statement he made has previously been shown to be false, I'm not going to re answer every statement as they are all in a similar vein, but as an example we'll start with number one.

The Palestinians shoot Rockets because like any people they have the right to resist an occupier. other than which, 90% of the "rockets" are no more than home made fireworks, and to this end one only has to look at the number of Israelis who have been killed by these thousands of rockets.
In the period 2000 - 2012, Israeli civilians have killed 46 Palestinians, the IDF another 6,472 (Quote from B'Tselem http://old.btselem.org/statistics/en...Casualties.asp)
The rockets are fired from Gaza. There are NO IDF soldiers in Gaza. Rockets are fired from Gaza into Israel (a member of the UN) which is a violation of international law. Retaliation is then allowed according to those laws. By attacking Israel the Jihadis are directly responisble for the 6.472 Palestinian deaths. People who would still be among their families if those rockets were not fired.
Fireworks with a warhead of 10-20kg and a lenght of 2 meter don't exist. Those rockets are made to kill.

Quote:
Regarding the solar panels, there was no absolutely illegality, as Israel has no right to make laws in occupied areas, unless for it's own security or to benefit the local population.
The fact is that this act by the Israelis was,...
(1)In retaliation for the local Palestinians who complained about the ongoing expansion of illegal settlements on their land.
(2) To drive the Palestinians of their land to facilitate the above.
First of all, that UN expert says he believe, so he doesn't know.
Second, I myself can't get a permit for solar panels where I live (Spain) so I don't place them. If I would, the local government will surely demand the demolition of it. Don't blame Israel for demolishing something that was build without a permit. This happens in almost every country. (Ben Elton angers Australian council with 'illegal' solar panels).
The Palestinians should know better. If it is illegal then it will be demolished. Problem is, they seem to be born for complaints instead of solutions.
Everyone, including international aid groups should get a permit before building something. If they don't get it then put international pressure. If you start building before you get a permit you are asking for trouble. It is that simple.
May 15th, 2012  
senojekips
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by VDKMS
The rockets are fired from Gaza. There are NO IDF soldiers in Gaza. Rockets are fired from Gaza into Israel
But they were illegally refusing entry of all materials to stop rebuilding of infrastructure and starving the Gazans even to the point of preventing their fishing fleet from putting to sea, a fact verified by Medcins sans Frontieres and other aid agencies.
Quote:
Originally Posted by VDKMS
First of all, that UN expert says he believe, so he doesn't know.
You can play word games all you like, but we all know he was telling the truth.
Quote:
Originally Posted by VDKMS
Second, I myself can't get a permit for solar panels where I live (Spain) so I don't place them. If I would, the local government will surely demand the demolition of it. Don't blame Israel for demolishing something that was build without a permit. This happens in almost every country. (Ben Elton angers Australian council with 'illegal' solar panels).
The Palestinians should know better. If it is illegal then it will be demolished. Problem is, they seem to be born for complaints instead of solutions.
Everyone, including international aid groups should get a permit before building something. If they don't get it then put international pressure. If you start building before you get a permit you are asking for trouble. It is that simple.
Yes,... you are definitely a certifiable idiot.
Firstly the Palestinians are not under Spanish law so your rather stupid attempt at an excuse is totally invalid. As was pointed out the Israelis don't even have legal jurisdiction in this matter. It was to punish the locals for objecting to the continued expansion of illegal Israeli settlements and to hopefully drive them off their land to facilitate this, nothing to do with permits.
 


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