So why do people hate Israel?

[Yossarian]

That's really "Big" of you. You forgive us for knowing the truth,... Pbbbttt,....

I am confused? So how does it work? Palestinian father comes home to find his house bulldozed and family in the street. Guard walks up and says " I know this is wrong but we forgive you for seeing that it is, by the way here is a box".

 

[VDKMS]

What a crock of sh!t! The old antisemitism card just had to be played.

Your fancy sayings are no more than that, as there is absolutely no doubt whatsoever that you steal land and kill babies the video evidence is overwhelming. In fact the killing of those who resist your theft of land is much of the problem.

You summed up the illegitimacy of your cause with your own quote: Obviously a lie, as if it were true you wouldn't be here trying to defend Israel's Nazi policies.

You may as well forget it, the world knows better. The term "Antisemite" has been so over used and abused that it is actually becoming an approbation upon those to whom it is addressed. Face it,... Zionists are hated for all the same reasons that the Nazis were hated.

Have you ever stopped for one second to ask yourself why it is that the Jewish people have been hounded, distrusted and despised everywhere they have gone for several millenia? It is because too many of them have the same ignorant and arrogant mindset as yourself.

You mean the fake videos?

Here is a question for you, is being anti-Israeli enough to be considered anti-Semitic as it intrigues me that the most anti-Israeli people I know are Jewish.
My wife changed religions after spending a year in Israel, my mother in law would bulldoze the place flat if given a chance and the best man at my wedding thinks the whole region should be nuked as it has caused the world nothing but trouble so would you describe them as anti-Semitic?

These are the generations that are now starting to take power around the world so your not giving a F**k may not be the wisest course of action in the long term.

And to save some time I will save VD a post and insert his post at the bottom...
======================================================
VD says:
"No because Muslims suck but I don't dislike them except in every post but I am a world expert on Islam as I have read the right wing nutters guide to Islam and know how to use Youtube".
=======================================================

Nice try Monty but it just shows you still don't understand. It is written all over the wall. Of course if you disregard all the facts it is obvious that you come to the wrong conclusion. Also if you mix up opinion with facts (as Seno does) you also come to the wrong conclusion.

Following the Arab spring in Egypt? Go back to the beginning and start all over, maybe it will open up your eyes, unless you don't want them to open them.

I am confused? So how does it work? Palestinian father comes home to find his house bulldozed and family in the street. Guard walks up and says " I know this is wrong but we forgive you for seeing that it is, by the way here is a box".

yeah, the box contains your Kalashnikov, munitions include. The suicide belt, including the one for your child when he grows up. The routes of a civilian bus that you supposed to target. Oh, and by the way, it is not your house and it was build illegally.

 

[MontyB]

Nice try Monty but it just shows you still don't understand. It is written all over the wall. Of course if you disregard all the facts it is obvious that you come to the wrong conclusion. Also if you mix up opinion with facts (as Seno does) you also come to the wrong conclusion.

Following the Arab spring in Egypt? Go back to the beginning and start all over, maybe it will open up your eyes, unless you don't want them to open them.

I am not sure I should be concerned about the opinion of a man that has been accused of cherry picking his data by pretty much every one on the forum except those he has decided to protect.

It is however interesting to watch and analyse the development your argument as you hammer away at one point for half a dozen posts before moving on to another point and in every case those points are made up of half truths, supposition and or biblical myth (the last one being fairly well hammered by archeologists worldwide and even from those within Israel itself) but rather than come up with a good counter you always fall back on the "but they are terrorists" line.

Please spare us the idiocy there are many on these forums that are trained in data acquisition and analysis some military and some civilian (yes data is data) and it is easy to tell you are only acquiring data to suit your views and even then only using the parts of that data to suit the extreme end of your argument.

But time and again you have failed to take hold of any chance to tell us how you would bring this mess to an end oddly enough just like all the Israeli posters here and my suspicion is that this isn't by chance as I have stated many times in the past I do not believe Israel wants a negotiated end to this.

 

[Yossarian]

You mean the fake videos?



Nice try Monty but it just shows you still don't understand. It is written all over the wall. Of course if you disregard all the facts it is obvious that you come to the wrong conclusion. Also if you mix up opinion with facts (as Seno does) you also come to the wrong conclusion.

Following the Arab spring in Egypt? Go back to the beginning and start all over, maybe it will open up your eyes, unless you don't want them to open them.



yeah, the box contains your Kalashnikov, munitions include. The suicide belt, including the one for your child when he grows up. The routes of a civilian bus that you supposed to target. Oh, and by the way, it is not your house and it was build illegally.

So I need someone to tell me what the right and wrong conclusion is? To remove for me all the deemed innapropriate opinions or angles on this issue? To choose for me?

Pretty much sums up your outlook.

 

[VDKMS]

So I need someone to tell me what the right and wrong conclusion is? To remove for me all the deemed innapropriate opinions or angles on this issue? To choose for me?

Pretty much sums up your outlook.

Yep, that's a nazi flag.

Here's the Nazi salute

another one , Palestinian police in Jenin 9 may 2006

 

[senojekips]

Another glaring example of Israeli brutality

Israeli soldiers assault two Reuters cameramen

HEBRON, West Bank | Thu Dec 13, 2012 6:32pm EST

(Reuters) - Israeli soldiers punched two Reuters cameramen and forced them to strip in the street, before letting off a tear gas canister in front of them, leaving one of them needing hospital treatment.
Israel's military said on Thursday it took the allegations seriously, but offered no explanation for the assault that occurred on Wednesday evening in the heart of Hebron.
"The regional brigade commander was ordered to open an investigation," Israeli Defense Forces spokeswoman Avital Leibovich said in an email. No further information will be provided until the investigation is complete.
Yousri Al Jamal and Ma'amoun Wazwaz said a foot patrol stopped them as they were driving to a nearby checkpoint where a Palestinian teenager had just been shot dead by an Israeli border guard.
Their car was clearly marked 'TV' and they were both wearing blue flak jackets with 'Press' emblazoned on the front.
The soldiers forced them to leave the vehicle and punched them, striking them with the butts of their guns. They accused them of working for an Israeli NGO, B'Tselem, which documents human rights violations in the occupied West Bank, the Reuters cameramen said.
Locals say B'Tselem has given a number of Palestinians video cameras so they can film soldiers and settlers who live in this divided city. The NGO was not immediately available for comment.
The soldiers did not let the men produce their official ID papers and forced them to strip down to their underwear, making them kneel on the road with their hands behind their heads, the cameramen said.
Two other Palestinian journalists working for local news organizations, including a satellite television station affiliated to the Islamist group Hamas, were also stopped and forced to the ground.
One of the soldiers then dropped a tear gas canister between the men and the IDF patrol ran away. The four journalists scrambled clear and Jamal and Wazwaz got to their car, which had rapidly filled up with tear gas, they said.
They tried to drive away, but said they only got around 200 meters before they had to stop and exit the vehicle because of the choking gas. The soldiers then fired more tear gas in their direction.
Wazwaz was overcome by the fumes and was taken to hospital by ambulance. He was released later the same night.
The Israeli soldiers took two gas masks and a video camera from their car. The undamaged camera was later found abandoned further up the road.
"We deplore the mistreatment of our journalists and have registered our extreme dismay with the Israeli military authorities," said Stephen J. Adler, editor-in-chief of Reuters News.
Tensions have been running particularly high in Hebron in the past week following repeated clashes between stone-throwing youths and soldiers.
Muhammad al-Salameh, 17, was shot dead close to his house in the heart of Hebron on Wednesday evening after an altercation with border guards at a nearby checkpoint. Israeli police said he had brandished a gun, which later proved to be a toy gun.
Some 800 Jewish settlers live among 30,000 Palestinians in the parts of the old city that are under Israeli control.

(Writing by Crispian Balmer; Editing by Myra MacDonald)

 

[BritinBritain]

They are so brave when faced by unarmed jurno's, just like Begin was so brave when he hung two unarmed British Sergeants.

 

[VDKMS]

Israeli soldiers assault two Reuters cameramen

HEBRON, West Bank | Thu Dec 13, 2012 6:32pm EST

(Reuters) - Israeli soldiers punched two Reuters cameramen and forced them to strip in the street, before letting off a tear gas canister in front of them, leaving one of them needing hospital treatment.
Israel's military said on Thursday it took the allegations seriously, but offered no explanation for the assault that occurred on Wednesday evening in the heart of Hebron.
"The regional brigade commander was ordered to open an investigation," Israeli Defense Forces spokeswoman Avital Leibovich said in an email. No further information will be provided until the investigation is complete.
Yousri Al Jamal and Ma'amoun Wazwaz said a foot patrol stopped them as they were driving to a nearby checkpoint where a Palestinian teenager had just been shot dead by an Israeli border guard.
Their car was clearly marked 'TV' and they were both wearing blue flak jackets with 'Press' emblazoned on the front.
The soldiers forced them to leave the vehicle and punched them, striking them with the butts of their guns. They accused them of working for an Israeli NGO, B'Tselem, which documents human rights violations in the occupied West Bank, the Reuters cameramen said.
Locals say B'Tselem has given a number of Palestinians video cameras so they can film soldiers and settlers who live in this divided city. The NGO was not immediately available for comment.
The soldiers did not let the men produce their official ID papers and forced them to strip down to their underwear, making them kneel on the road with their hands behind their heads, the cameramen said.
Two other Palestinian journalists working for local news organizations, including a satellite television station affiliated to the Islamist group Hamas, were also stopped and forced to the ground.
One of the soldiers then dropped a tear gas canister between the men and the IDF patrol ran away. The four journalists scrambled clear and Jamal and Wazwaz got to their car, which had rapidly filled up with tear gas, they said.
They tried to drive away, but said they only got around 200 meters before they had to stop and exit the vehicle because of the choking gas. The soldiers then fired more tear gas in their direction.
Wazwaz was overcome by the fumes and was taken to hospital by ambulance. He was released later the same night.
The Israeli soldiers took two gas masks and a video camera from their car. The undamaged camera was later found abandoned further up the road.
"We deplore the mistreatment of our journalists and have registered our extreme dismay with the Israeli military authorities," said Stephen J. Adler, editor-in-chief of Reuters News.
Tensions have been running particularly high in Hebron in the past week following repeated clashes between stone-throwing youths and soldiers.
Muhammad al-Salameh, 17, was shot dead close to his house in the heart of Hebron on Wednesday evening after an altercation with border guards at a nearby checkpoint. Israeli police said he had brandished a gun, which later proved to be a toy gun.
Some 800 Jewish settlers live among 30,000 Palestinians in the parts of the old city that are under Israeli control.

(Writing by Crispian Balmer; Editing by Myra MacDonald)

Why don't you tell us what happened a few days earlier?

They are so brave when faced by unarmed jurno's, just like Begin was so brave when he hung two unarmed British Sergeants.

Begin hung those British Soldiers? Is that a lie or can you give a link to that fact? BTW did you know that those two violated British orders?

 

[senojekips]

Why don't you tell us what happened a few days earlier?

Because whatever it was, it has absolutely no bearing on what happened here.
Even if this two particular correspondents had assaulted the troops concerned (which I couldn't imagine) there would till be no justification for this deliberate act of thuggery.

It was in fact no more than another attempt by Israel to intimidate any likely witnesses to their crimes against humanity.

also, the S.A. (the brown shirts) had virtually a free hand to intimidate, harass, and attack opponents and now the police were being used to help.

does this sound familiar?

 

[Yossarian]

Yep, that's a nazi flag.

Here's the Nazi salute

another one , Palestinian police in Jenin 9 may 2006

Here are some IDF forces cracking down on Gaza

Now here are some Nazi forces cracking down during the Warsaw uprising.

Sorry for the mix up! I always get them confused.

 

[BritinBritain]

Begin hung those British Soldiers? Is that a lie or can you give a link to that fact? BTW did you know that those two violated British orders?

http://rense.com/general81/tedp.htm

British sergeants hanged, July 12, 1947. Begin, Shamir, and Haganah authorized kidnapping and hanging of two British sergeants, booby trapping their bodies and mining the area. During this time, Shamir sent many letters and package bombs to British officials. 1947 also included multiple cases of kidnappings (including brutal floggings of British soldiers) by Jewish terrorists.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Menachem_Begin

Under Begin’s leadership, the Irgun continued to carry out operations such as breaking into Acre Prison, and the kidnapping and hanging of two British sergeants in order to prevent, and then in retaliation to, the execution of several Irgun members by the British

Sergeants Martin and Paice were at a cafe in civilian clothes, were unarmed, were outside their camp at a forbidden time and were not part of a group of four, as required by standing orders at the time.

They didn't violate anything, they ignored standing orders which is different.

The first man to be hanged asked if he could write a message to his family, but was told that there was no time. They refused a man his last wish to write to his family, it just shows what low life's the Zionists are.

 

[VDKMS]

Because whatever it was, it has absolutely no bearing on what happened here.
Even if this two particular correspondents had assaulted the troops concerned (which I couldn't imagine) there would till be no justification for this deliberate act of thuggery.

You dare not.

It was in fact no more than another attempt by Israel to intimidate any likely witnesses to their crimes against humanity. does this sound familiar?

No because the SA was above the law, the IDF isn't.

BTW Palestinian police :Rights group: investigate Palestinian police abuse

"Activists charge that beatings and torture by Palestinian security agencies are common."​

http://rense.com/general81/tedp.htm

British sergeants hanged, July 12, 1947. Begin, Shamir, and Haganah authorized kidnapping and hanging of two British sergeants, booby trapping their bodies and mining the area. During this time, Shamir sent many letters and package bombs to British officials. 1947 also included multiple cases of kidnappings (including brutal floggings of British soldiers) by Jewish terrorists.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Menachem_Begin

Under Begin’s leadership, the Irgun continued to carry out operations such as breaking into Acre Prison, and the kidnapping and hanging of two British sergeants in order to prevent, and then in retaliation to, the execution of several Irgun members by the British

Sergeants Martin and Paice were at a cafe in civilian clothes, were unarmed, were outside their camp at a forbidden time and were not part of a group of four, as required by standing orders at the time.

They didn't violate anything, they ignored standing orders which is different.

The first man to be hanged asked if he could write a message to his family, but was told that there was no time. They refused a man his last wish to write to his family, it just shows what low life's the Zionists are.

This is a very sad story, which was debated before. The killing was done by the Irgun, not Haganah (who disliked what happend and only gave intelligence). The reason for the kidnapping was to get their comrades free, just like Hamas kidnapped Shalit. The British went on with the execution, Israel released about a thousand Palestinian prisoners, all with worse crimes as the Irgun ones. Shalit stayed alive, the British were hanged. Merely a year later the British left.

Was it all worth it? 5 people hanged because three were caught armed after the Prison attack. No British soldiers were killed in that attack.

Did you know that one of the Sergeants was a Jew?

 

[senojekips]

You dare not.

WTF are you talking about? I dare not what??

No because the SA was above the law, the IDF isn't.

They are above the law. Firstly quote me a source where a German Law clearly states that the SA were above the law? See, two can play your stupid game.

Then list the IDF members serving a life sentences for any of the multitude of War crimes committed by them. They enjoy the same tacit protection from the Law as the SA did and are just as big a thugs.

 

[BritinBritain]

This is a very sad story, which was debated before. The killing was done by the Irgun, not Haganah (who disliked what happend and only gave intelligence). The reason for the kidnapping was to get their comrades free, just like Hamas kidnapped Shalit. The British went on with the execution, Israel released about a thousand Palestinian prisoners, all with worse crimes as the Irgun ones. Shalit stayed alive, the British were hanged. Merely a year later the British left.

The British Sergeants were hanged on orders from Begin.

Was it all worth it? 5 people hanged because three were caught armed after the Prison attack. No British soldiers were killed in that attack.

So what no British soldiers were killed in the attack, it wasn't for lack of trying. Do you expect the British authorities to say, "Now don't be a naughty boy again," and smack his wrist?

Did you know that one of the Sergeants was a Jew?

I don't care if he was from Stamford Hill or Tel Aviv, the bloke was unarmed and murdered by vicious scumbag Zionists. And what filth mines an area and booby traps the bodies?

 

[VDKMS]

They are above the law. Firstly quote me a source where a German Law clearly states that the SA were above the law? See, two can play your stupid game.

A contradiction of an enormous magnitude. A law can impossible have a law that stands above itself. The SA could do things unpunished until a rival punished them. The IDF cannot do that.

Then list the IDF members serving a life sentences for any of the multitude of War crimes committed by them. They enjoy the same tacit protection from the Law as the SA did and are just as big a thugs.

That's not possible and you know it. No IDF member has committed war crimes. You cannot convict someone for something he didn't do. Not one IDF member was accused, let alone convicted, by a court that has the authority to punish such crimes. Not one of your sources has that authority and all of them just "claim" not prove.

The British Sergeants were hanged on orders from Begin.

True. In his memoirs he wrote that that was his most difficult decision. He should have chosen otherwise and the British should have traded the prisoners.

So what no British soldiers were killed in the attack, it wasn't for lack of trying. Do you expect the British authorities to say, "Now don't be a naughty boy again," and smack his wrist?

No, but there's a difference between trying and actually committing. Rule of law makes that difference.

I don't care if he was from Stamford Hill or Tel Aviv, the bloke was unarmed and murdered by vicious scumbag Zionists. And what filth mines an area and booby traps the bodies?

I agree with you that they shouldn't have done that. The Irgun was not liked by many.

------------

I forgot to reply on your mixed up photo's. It is nice to see Palestinians desperately trying to assist the IDF soldiers, unfortunately they had orders to do it themselves:smile:

Just kidding, here's the truth : Protesters are forced back by Israeli security force officers as they try to breach the controversial Israeli barrier during clashes at a protest against the barrier in the West Bank village of Bilin near Ramallah April 22, 2011. REUTERS/Mohamad Torokman

Not Gaza, sorry.

 

[senojekips]

A contradiction of an enormous magnitude. A law can impossible have a law that stands above itself. The SA could do things unpunished until a rival punished them. The IDF cannot do that.

They do and it is just that no rival is yet in a position to do that as yet. Something that may change now that Palestine is officially recognised by the UN.

That's not possible and you know it.

Of course it's not possible, as every "Investigation" held by Israel is only a whitewash. It is like asking Heinrich himmler to pass judgment on his thugs. Most (if not all) of these "investigations" would never have even happened had it not been for International outcry at Israel's thuggery.

C'mon VD I shouldn't have even answered these stupid statements of yours, as I stated I'd only answer your new lies, and this is as old as dirt.

 

[Yossarian]

Every immorality pointed out here, just has an opposing party pick the other side of the line and say "they do it to!" Like a child looking for justification for a misdeed.

And here we are now, justifying misdeeds.

The past 60 years of lockup of negotiations now makes a lot more sense...

 

[VDKMS]

They do and it is just that no rival is yet in a position to do that as yet. Something that may change now that Palestine is officially recognised by the UN.

Palestine is not yet officially recognised by the UN. Only the UN counsil can do that.

Of course it's not possible, as every "Investigation" held by Israel is only a whitewash. It is like asking Heinrich himmler to pass judgment on his thugs. Most (if not all) of these "investigations" would never have even happened had it not been for International outcry at Israel's thuggery.

At least they investigate, hamas does no investigations at all, on the contrary, they are celebrated.

C'mon VD I shouldn't have even answered these stupid statements of yours, as I stated I'd only answer your new lies, and this is as old as dirt.

Then why did you answer it? Because you only want to deny the truth?

 

[senojekips]

Palestine is not yet officially recognised by the UN. Only the UN counsil can do that.

At least they investigate, hamas does no investigations at all, on the contrary, they are celebrated.

So you admit that Israel lies about having investigations whereas the Palestinians don't bother lying? You forget that Israel is the aggressor and therefore can't complain about measures found necessary to resist their crimes.

 

[ScarabVenom]

That's not possible and you know it. No IDF member has committed war crimes.

Are you sure about that? If so, please explain the Bahr El-Baqar massacre committed by the IAF during 1970. Israelis claim that they thought the school was a military installment. In reality, yes it was a primary school, the school was completely destroyed with 46 children dead and about 60 wounded. Not a war crime? That's one out of many crimes done by them.