So why do people hate Israel? - Page 48




 
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March 26th, 2012  
Del Boy
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by senojekips
Errr,... yeah, OK So it's alright to support one of the worlds most detested regimes, who are actively participating in the disenfranchisement, beating, harassment and gratuitous murder of the people .
You are describing there all the opponent regimes of Israel in the region, where Israel is the ONLY democracy of note. Take a look around, if you want pariah states. The people of Israel are so 'oppressed', that Israel has to build walls to keep people OUT, not in. The Nazis in this scenario are those who wish to destroy Israel, as you do, who absolutely dread a peaceful settlement. Nothing but the destruction of the Israel suits your book, and such has been the case with Nazis since Hussaini throughout the 20th c., when they have been the closest allies of Hitler with offers to wipe out the world's Jews on Hitler's behalf.

For 60 years Israel has been obliged to defend itself and has done so very well - nowhere has Army action been so careful of civilians etc. and nowhere has a nation handed back land won in defensive combat as Israel has done. As for land, great swathes where purchased by The Jewish agency in the early 20th c., and of a great many which were sold individually are now regretted and reclaimed, a denial of sale. Remember that Israel was not then the country you see before you now; it was a dusty corner of the Ottoman empire.

Israel suffers from a very intensive and successful propaganda programme, by the Muslims, to make way for their all-conquering Caliphate, including Europe, their great Ummah. Far from having original thought - you represent simply a mouthpiece for their agenda, constantly repeating the same ol', same ol'. If you say it often enough, it becomes some sort of twisted history.
You expose yourself when you dare to compare Israel , and any who take a different stance from yours, to pre-war Nazis, and when you never, ever allow for two sides of the question, always a dead give-away.

Israel's attitude towards the Palestinians and their guest performers is known as survival, simple as that, and they do not need your permission .

As far as you are concerned, any opinion that does not match yours is a lie; anyone voicing an opinion that does not match yours is an idiot or worse ; if Israel were to ask what they are doing wrong, your response IMHO would be - 'you are Jews, and you are breathing.'

Kindly spare me your 'of Jewish descent' toffee - they say the same for Hitler sometimes.

I give you the solution - the Palestinians stop firing- the war stops. Simples! Jaw-Jaw beats War-War.
March 26th, 2012  
benaakatz
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BritinAfrica
I have often wondered how well the Israeli's would do if they came up against a proper and well trained army and air force.

I remember a dog fight between Israeli Mirages (or whatever they call them) and Jordanian Hawker Hunters. The Jordanian's had been trained by the RAF and despite faster aircraft the Israeli's couldn't get on their six O'clock to shoot them down. A Hunter was lost when one of the pilots lost his nerve and made a break for home, the superior speed of the Mirage enabled the Israeli to shoot him down. The dog fight broke off when all aircraft began getting low on fuel.
The Israelis shot down, if my memory serves me right, 5 to 6 Soviet piloted state of the art Migs in the war of attrition with egypt between 1967 to 1970.
March 26th, 2012  
I3BrigPvSk
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by benaakatz
The Israelis shot down, if my memory serves me right, 5 to 6 Soviet piloted state of the art Migs in the war of attrition with egypt between 1967 to 1970.
If I remember correctly; the IDF Air Force was quite successful during the Lebanon operation in 1982, when they met the Syrian Air Force. Nevertheless, how would they be today if they met a well trained military, whoever that might be? The war in 2006 at Hezbollah? It is tricky to find reliable sources to figure out the casualties and the cost for the Hezbollah, and they are perhaps not comparable with a state owned military, which is well trained, however, Hezbollah had strong support from Iran and Syria, but not any air force, though

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March 26th, 2012  
BritinBritain
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by benaakatz
The Israelis shot down, if my memory serves me right, 5 to 6 Soviet piloted state of the art Migs in the war of attrition with egypt between 1967 to 1970.
I meant a properly trained military. If I remember correctly the Egyptians out ran their anti air cover.
March 26th, 2012  
I3BrigPvSk
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BritinAfrica
I meant a properly trained military. If I remember correctly the Egyptians out ran their anti air cover.

Yes, they did, if we are talking about the Yom Kippur (1973) The Egyptians had an air defense shield (SA-2 Guideline???) surrounding the Suez Channel, if I remember correctly; the Egyptians thought the other end of the line was successful (the Syrians) when they were not.
March 26th, 2012  
BritinBritain
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghostrider
Yes, they did, if we are talking about the Yom Kippur (1973) The Egyptians had an air defense shield (SA-2 Guideline???) surrounding the Suez Channel, if I remember correctly; the Egyptians thought the other end of the line was successful (the Syrians) when they were not.
Thanks Ghost, I guess I got my dates and wars mixed up. I thought it was before the Yom Kippur War
March 26th, 2012  
VDKMS
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by senojekips
Errr,... yeah, OK So it's alright to support one of the worlds most detested regimes, who are actively participating in the disenfranchisement, beating, harassment and gratuitous murder of the people who's land they are occupying, but you feel I should apologise to these supporters for telling them the truth about themselves?

From your posts, I'd say that you've never had an original thought in your life. I say these things, just as I would to supporters of the Nazi regime in Germany. (or anywhere else for that matter). The truth will be told, if you don't like it, get a brain and a bit of backbone and stand up for what is right. Instead of your own selfish interests.

You can't publicly support a pariah state, (remember all the UN resolutions) and expect your opinions to be respected. Not that anyone with a brain needs the UN to make them see what is going on.

Of course,... their treatment of the Palestinians is the closest thing we have to the Nazis treatment of the pre-war Jews.

The one thing that the Zionists really learned from the holocaust was how to emulate the oppression of another people. Not only do they treat the Palestinians like animals, they are quite willing to treat their own people the same way. Just as the Nazis treated Germans who were sympathetic to the Jewish people.




All they need are the Deaths Head badges and SS runes and you could be looking straight back to the 1930s in Germany.
The usual rhetoric without prove and only wrong assumptions, again with photo's (not clips this time) without any explanation. Those guys could be criminals, peaceful protesters or religious fanatics attacking Palestinians.
March 26th, 2012  
I3BrigPvSk
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BritinAfrica
Thanks Ghost, I guess I got my dates and wars mixed up. I thought it was before the Yom Kippur War

You are welcome; prior 1973, during the six days war (1967), Egypt lost the whole Sinai Peninsula and they were beaten badly by the IDF AF, so they tried to prevent a similar situation when they attempted to re-capture the Sinai Peninsula. However, the war can perhaps be viewed as a success for Egypt, even if they got the whole 3rd Army surrounded. The Camp David gave them the Peninsula back. Perhaps the Peace Treaty between Israel and Egypt had never occurred without the Yom Kippur war, but that is only speculations. Israel has done a lot of strange things in the past, the Entebbe, when they destroyed Iraq's nuclear facility, and the air raid toward PLO in Tunis.
March 26th, 2012  
VDKMS
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BritinAfrica
I have often wondered how well the Israeli's would do if they came up against a proper and well trained army and air force.

I remember a dog fight between Israeli Mirages (or whatever they call them) and Jordanian Hawker Hunters. The Jordanian's had been trained by the RAF and despite faster aircraft the Israeli's couldn't get on their six O'clock to shoot them down. A Hunter was lost when one of the pilots lost his nerve and made a break for home, the superior speed of the Mirage enabled the Israeli to shoot him down. The dog fight broke off when all aircraft began getting low on fuel.
end 2004:
687 enemy airplanes have been shot down in dogfights since Israel`s birth. Only 23 Israeli planes have been shot down by enemy planes since 1948 - a statistic which puts the dogfight victory ratio between Israel and its Arab neighbors at a whopping 30:1.
18 enemy planes were shot down in dogfights in the 1948 War of Independence. A single Israeli plane may have been shot down in a dogfight over the Galilee, but the exact circumstances of its demise were never established in certainty.
Seven enemy planes were shot down in the course of the Sinai Campaign, without a single Israeli plane being shot down.
In the Six Day War, 60 enemy planes and 12 IAF planes were shot down.
The War of Attrition saw 111 enemy planes and four Israeli planes shot down.
277 enemy planes were shot down in the Yom Kippur War - accounting for over a third of the IAF`s total kills since 1948. Of the planes lost by the IAF in the war, only five were shot down in dogfights.
88 enemy planes were shot down in the Peace for Galilee Campaign. Not one Israeli plane was shot down in a dogfight.
126 enemy planes were shot down in dogfights in the years between the wars - most of them in the 70`s.
The IAF lost only two planes in dogfights between the wars, in 1959 and in 1964. The stories of the IAF aircraft`s first kills are here by presented to you.

Israeli airforce kills
March 26th, 2012  
VDKMS
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghostrider
Yes, they did, if we are talking about the Yom Kippur (1973) The Egyptians had an air defense shield (SA-2 Guideline???) surrounding the Suez Channel, if I remember correctly; the Egyptians thought the other end of the line was successful (the Syrians) when they were not.
If I'm not mistaken the SA-6 was very dangerous in the beginning of the war. Israel developed special tactics to evade them but with not much succes. They then send a special task force to "take" one from Egypt, analysed it and build countermeasures. The SAM problem was solved.
 


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