So why do people hate Israel? - Page 47




 
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March 25th, 2012  
I3BrigPvSk
 
 
To fight and defend your opinions are great, I salute all members of this thread for it. Even if some of us here disagree, can we leave the name calling and respect others opinions?
March 25th, 2012  
RayManKiller3
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yossarian
Upon review of this thread, and the very real situation it covers, I have surmised that the human race, if un able to agree on such matters, even without the presence of any outside threat,

Is inherently doomed.

And we call ourselves the civilised world lol

If you mean doomed to repeat mistakes over and over, then I agree. I won't say that we will kill ourselves off yet though. I believe once we hit space (colonization), the use of nukes will be a very real and imminent threat, even moreso than it is now. The only reason no one has used it is because humanity will probably die off.


To solidify my argument again in this debate, my conditions are as follows:

1. Palastinians must stop violence against Israel, and if violence continues, then let the Palestinians who really want peace denounce it.

2. Israel must exist, not debatable. We can not correct something that happened 70+ years ago by doing the same thing that caused the problem, therefore Israel's legality is irrelevant to me.

3. Palestine must be demilitarized. Because Palestine will be demilitiarized, Israel can not attack it.


As for my thoughts on whether this is religion or legal based:

This fight is mainly done by religion. The motivation may have some legal rights in favor of whichever, but it is largely religion based. Because most of the fighters are recruited with religion as its base, I do not deem this to be fight for land itself (as in just the land, not the symbol of the land).


You can use the Crusades as an example. Many people joined the Crusades with other thoughts in mind other than religion, but it was religion that allowed it to be possible. Because religion was the banner, it was a known as a religious war, not a self-interest one.

Here is my main concern:

I do not believe and have no reason to believe if Palestine were to get there way that terrorism will suddenly cease.
March 25th, 2012  
senojekips
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RayManKiller3
2. Israel must exist, not debatable. We can not correct something that happened 70+ years ago by doing the same thing that caused the problem, therefore Israel's legality is irrelevant to me.
You just summed up your morality and honesty far better than I ever could there, in that one sentence.

Idiots like yourself are the cause of the problem, you are too spineless and morally bankrupt to resist that which you know to be wrong, willing to sacrifice truth and morality for your own temporary peace of mind. You think you can broker peace at the end of a rifle barrel, imagine where we would be had people like you had your way with Adolph Hitler. "The greater Germany must exist, not debatable" We can't correct what he has done. The legality of his actions is irrelevant".

I seem to remember in 1939 some of your countrymen not wanting to get involved against Nazism either, funny how people got a sudden change of morality after Pearl Harbour, and it was their @rse was suddenly on the hot plate. That's what people like you need, a fire under your @rse every now and then, just to make you see reason.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghostrider
To fight and defend your opinions are great, I salute all members of this thread for it. Even if some of us here disagree, can we leave the name calling and respect others opinions?
Try supporting the 9/11 tragedy and see how respected your opinions are? Respect is great,... but it has absolutely no value if your opinions are not worthy of it.

Just remember, if the Zionists had some respect, none of this would ever have happened. Pushing people off their own land and murdering those who resist is hardly respectful.
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March 25th, 2012  
Yossarian
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by senojekips
You just summed up your morality and honesty far better than I ever could there, in that one sentence.
Quote:
Originally Posted by senojekips
Idiots like yourself are the cause of the problem, you are too spineless and morally bankrupt to resist that which you know to be wrong,
Sometimes the applications of child like emotions to adult issues can be catastrophic to finding a real resolution.


Quote:
Originally Posted by senojekips
You think you can broker peace at the end of a rifle barrel, imagine where we would be had people like you had your way with Adolph Hitler. "The greater Germany must exist, not debatable
Peace was achieved in this instance at the end of a rifle barrel, by the destruciton of Germany and the use of atomic weapons on Japan.

Followed by a Gridlock on Eastern Europe and the wave of brush wars caused by the Cold War, Which Shows, Peace does NOT constitute freedom by any means.



Quote:
Originally Posted by senojekips
I seem to remember in 1939 some of your countrymen not wanting to get involved against Nazism either, funny how people got a sudden change of morality after Pearl Harbour, and it was their @rse was suddenly on the hot plate. That's what people like you need, a fire under your @rse every now and then, just to make you see reason.
What human being would want to wish the horrible effects of war upon their communities and nation if they could help it? Many Americans did not want our forces in Iraq, and yes Pearl Harbor was a tragic awakening, but what you are calling for and supporting in the form of a hot plate, is an act of war or terror against the United States or other another Western Nation.

If you openly stated that in front of The Paliament building, or National Mall, or even in front of the Kremlin, that for peace to be achieved in Palestine you must ignite a hot plate to sway people to your cause in this part of the world along the lines of Pearl Harbor or 9/11...

You'd be thrown into jail for conspiring to kill that nation's citizens... And no matter where you would do that the result would be the same,

This is not how problems are solved, and this will only lead to more voilence for no reason, this is exactly how world powers would be dragged into a war in Middle East region. Exactly how my fellow citizens may be thrown into a snowballing conflict there leading to grave consequences. I can't think of any more stronger attachment for concern here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by senojekips
Try supporting the 9/11 tragedy and see how respected your opinions are? Respect is great,... but it has absolutely no value if your opinions are not worthy of it.
Depends of what side the wire you are on, standing in Times Sqaure most certianly, but kneeling at prayer in one of the many places througout the world rife with anti American emotion, then yes, you may find agreeance on supporting 9/11.

Repect, and opinions are all human ideas and notions, as are emotions of anger, resentment , greed and deception, these human characteristics are largely responsible of how our civilization has evovled and is still evolving today. With little regard of consequences and little attention paid towards the future.

Quote:
Originally Posted by senojekips
Just remember, if the Zionists had some respect, none of this would ever have happened. Pushing people off their own land and murdering those who resist is hardly respectful.
If your Zionists where removed, then there would be a vacum, with so many die hards out there, who are simply using the Palestinian struggle for their own banner to accomplish their own goals, it is almost a certainty that they fill such a vacum, and impose the exact same circumstances on the real losers here, the Palestian civilians.

For as in the case of human affairs, it all boils down to this.

Jackboots Vs. Jackasses, and we all have to pick aside.

Lastly, I am not attacking, I am just simply stating, I have respect for your stern stance and refuse to condem you, all I ask in return is the same.

Thanks,
March 25th, 2012  
VDKMS
 
@ senojekips

I think you owe some posters here an apology. You call them spineless, morally bankrupt, liars, stupid and more. You do not respect their opinion but you do want to enforce yours upon them.

Those posters write down their opinion based on facts while yours is based on fabricated "facts" or only parts of facts, clips with no verification whatsoever.

You also say that you previously disproved lies. That's not possible. Facts are what they are. The truth.
You also said you answered several questions a number of times. That's right, but they were always the wrong answers.
You change words people say to make it suits you.

You accuse a population of stealing the land from others and you want them to go back to Europe, even if they are born in Israel. But you yourself live on land that was stolen from others, yet you find that alright. If you really want the Jews out of Israel then you must pack your bags too. Jews were living their from in the beginning, what cannot be set of the population you belong to. In my opinion, both populations can stay because they are both legitimate there according to the laws of that time.

Now, before you are going to sum up all the UN resolutions against Israel you must know that those resolutions (by the General Assembly) are recommendations (thats a fact!) and that all binding resolutions of the Security Counsil were fulfilled what cannot be said from some other countries.

You also compare the "evil Zionists" to Nazi Germany allthough there are more facts that Arabs were closely working with that regime. So if you compare Nazi Germany with Israel you are ill informed.

You also have no clue whatsoever about the cooperation between Israelis and Palestinians. It is not because you don't like it or ignore it that it doesn't exists.

We also know what happens when a fact is overwhelming. You ignore or ridicule it.
March 25th, 2012  
YuriBierazo
 
 
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10JMVKuJ3Sw"]Israel targets Palestinian solar panels in bid for West Bank dominance - YouTube[/ame]
Watch the video and you'll realize how evil Israel really is. They don't give a **** about Arabs and pull this BS all the time.
March 25th, 2012  
VDKMS
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by YuriBierazo
Israel targets Palestinian solar panels in bid for West Bank dominance - YouTube
Watch the video and you'll realize how evil Israel really is. They don't give a **** about Arabs and pull this BS all the time.
This is only partly true. Here comes the FACTS.

1) The area is part of area C of the West Bank. Areas A and B (Palestinian jurisdiction) and C (Israeli jurisdiction). This is part of the 1995 Interim Agreement,18 signed and witnessed by the U.S., the EU, Egypt, Jordan, Russia, and Norway (Oslo Accords).

2) They are not yet destroyed. A solar plant in Hebron paid by the Spanish government was also threatened with demolition orders. The Spanish helped save the solar panels from destruction.

3) Israeli authorities are threatening to demolish six of the 16 projects. This means ten are valid.

4) Elad Orian, a physicist at Comet-ME, told the Associated Press that the group didnít ask for permits, feeling it would have been futile because Israel considers the communities illegal. He believes demolition is still months away, and hopes political pressure by Germany, which gave more than 400,000 euros ($520,000), will save the projects.

Do your homework before posting something.
March 26th, 2012  
RayManKiller3
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by senojekips
"The greater Germany must exist, not debatable" We can't correct what he has done. The legality of his actions is irrelevant".

Your comparing this to Germany? Are you forgetting that would be so if Germany haven't unconditionally surrendered?

As for morality, I spoke of it to you before. What is legal and illegal is not always moral or immoral. Morality is subjective anyways, so I won't take what you said as an insult.

Even if you disliked my comment, insulting me for it isn't the correct way to go about it. I have not insulted you despite our vast difference in opinions.


I believe Israel is legal as I believe those that created Israel did things legally until the Arabs started targeting them.
March 26th, 2012  
senojekips
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by VDKMS
@ senojekips
I think you owe some posters here an apology. You call them spineless, morally bankrupt, liars, stupid and more. You do not respect their opinion but you do want to enforce yours upon them.
Errr,... yeah, OK So it's alright to support one of the worlds most detested regimes, who are actively participating in the disenfranchisement, beating, harassment and gratuitous murder of the people who's land they are occupying, but you feel I should apologise to these supporters for telling them the truth about themselves?

From your posts, I'd say that you've never had an original thought in your life. I say these things, just as I would to supporters of the Nazi regime in Germany. (or anywhere else for that matter). The truth will be told, if you don't like it, get a brain and a bit of backbone and stand up for what is right. Instead of your own selfish interests.

You can't publicly support a pariah state, (remember all the UN resolutions) and expect your opinions to be respected. Not that anyone with a brain needs the UN to make them see what is going on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RayManKiller3
Your comparing this to Germany? .
Of course,... their treatment of the Palestinians is the closest thing we have to the Nazis treatment of the pre-war Jews.

The one thing that the Zionists really learned from the holocaust was how to emulate the oppression of another people. Not only do they treat the Palestinians like animals, they are quite willing to treat their own people the same way. Just as the Nazis treated Germans who were sympathetic to the Jewish people.




All they need are the Deaths Head badges and SS runes and you could be looking straight back to the 1930s in Germany.
March 26th, 2012  
BritinBritain
 
 
I have often wondered how well the Israeli's would do if they came up against a proper and well trained army and air force.

I remember a dog fight between Israeli Mirages (or whatever they call them) and Jordanian Hawker Hunters. The Jordanian's had been trained by the RAF and despite faster aircraft the Israeli's couldn't get on their six O'clock to shoot them down. A Hunter was lost when one of the pilots lost his nerve and made a break for home, the superior speed of the Mirage enabled the Israeli to shoot him down. The dog fight broke off when all aircraft began getting low on fuel.
 


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