So why do people hate Israel?

[I3BrigPvSk]

There is something which has always bothered me. During the Second World War, the Swedish Count Folke Bernadotte, a member of the Swedish Royal Family saved thousands of Jews from the Concentration Camps, with what was called "The White Buses". These buses brought the prisoners to Sweden and they got medical treatment and they saved about 15 000 people, everything organized by Folke Bernadotte. Folke Bernadotte was killed by the Stern Gang in 1948, perhaps by the same people he saved a few years earlier. This is absurd, he saved more people than Oscar Schindler, he was also one of the people which whom sent Raul Wallenberg to Budapest and he saved about 60 000 Jews.

 

[senojekips]

Your not the only one , how about our little incident on June 8th 1967?.

Now you no were a lack of trust can developt. Let alone this dog and pony show about dragging the U.S. into a proxy war with Iran, based off Israeli interest and ingorance of the effects of long term brush wars on the U.S. ecnomic and social structures.

There is an entire thread of over 20 pages devoted purely to this subject, it's a long and very interesting read, but well worth it, for anyone with the slightest interest in the subject.

See: http://www.military-quotes.com/forum/uss-liberty-israels-war-self-t14298.html

There is something which has always bothered me. During the Second World War, the Swedish Count Folke Bernadotte, a member of the Swedish Royal Family saved thousands of Jews from the Concentration Camps, with what was called "The White Buses". These buses brought the prisoners to Sweden and they got medical treatment and they saved about 15 000 people, everything organized by Folke Bernadotte. Folke Bernadotte was killed by the Stern Gang in 1948, perhaps by the same people he saved a few years earlier. This is absurd, he saved more people than Oscar Schindler, he was also one of the people which whom sent Raul Wallenberg to Budapest and he saved about 60 000 Jews.

This seems to be typical wherever Israel is involved, so many atrocities and "accidents" involving those about them (but never them), all without any logical explanation.

With the advent of the internet and home PCs all of the available information can now be collated by anyone anywhere in the world, something that the Israelis never contemplated. More and more people with an interest are now able to see the lies and duplicity of the Israelis that has been hidden for 60 + years.

 

[Yossarian]

There is an entire thread of over 20 pages devoted purely to this subject, it's a long and very interesting read, but well worth it, for anyone with the slightest interest in the subject.

See: http://www.military-quotes.com/forum/uss-liberty-israels-war-self-t14298.html

Much appreciated. Very interesting viewpoints.

 

[MontyB]

There is something which has always bothered me. During the Second World War, the Swedish Count Folke Bernadotte, a member of the Swedish Royal Family saved thousands of Jews from the Concentration Camps, with what was called "The White Buses". These buses brought the prisoners to Sweden and they got medical treatment and they saved about 15 000 people, everything organized by Folke Bernadotte. Folke Bernadotte was killed by the Stern Gang in 1948, perhaps by the same people he saved a few years earlier. This is absurd, he saved more people than Oscar Schindler, he was also one of the people which whom sent Raul Wallenberg to Budapest and he saved about 60 000 Jews.

The Wallenberg case is an interesting one, that poor bastard got shafted by pretty much everyone except the Germans his fate is a blight on the Swedish government.

 

[VDKMS]

There is something which has always bothered me. During the Second World War, the Swedish Count Folke Bernadotte, a member of the Swedish Royal Family saved thousands of Jews from the Concentration Camps, with what was called "The White Buses". These buses brought the prisoners to Sweden and they got medical treatment and they saved about 15 000 people, everything organized by Folke Bernadotte. Folke Bernadotte was killed by the Stern Gang in 1948, perhaps by the same people he saved a few years earlier. This is absurd, he saved more people than Oscar Schindler, he was also one of the people which whom sent Raul Wallenberg to Budapest and he saved about 60 000 Jews.

Count Folke Bernadotte (together with French UN observer Andre Seraut) was killerd by fanatic terrorists, not at the orders of the Israeli government. He was assassinated because he was going to suggest that Jerusalem should not be part of Israel. The Israeli government cracked down on the terrorist group arresting many members and confiscating weapons. The group later disbanded due to public condemnation.

Your not the only one , how about our little incident on June 8th 1967?.

Now you no were a lack of trust can developt. Let alone this dog and pony show about dragging the U.S. into a proxy war with Iran, based off Israeli interest and ingorance of the effects of long term brush wars on the U.S. ecnomic and social structures.

The attack on the USS Liberty was an error, it was not done deliberately. Therer were 10 official US investigations (the last one in 1991), all found no evidence in a deliberate attack.

And murder two British Sergeants. Not happy with that the Israeli terrorists booby trapped the bodies and mined the area. Nice bastards.

You cannot condemn a nation for what some terrorists did. If Britain would have kept their word this propably wouldn't have occured.

The King David Hotel should have been evacuated but due to British ignorance and feel of invincibility that didn't happen.

That I suppose, is why the Israeli terrorists had to blow up the King David Hotel?....

what has that to do with legal immigrants?

In fact the establishment of Israel was illegal, even UN never gave Israel any legitimacy.

Israeli United Nations membership date : 11 May 1949

1)The United Nations was not competent under International Law to partition or otherwise dispose of the territory of Palestine against the wishes of the clear majority of its inhabitants.

Then almost all (if not all) countries are founded illegally because no one asked its people. My native country was founded against the will of the dutch speaking majority. Did Australia asked its native people if it was OK to establish a country?

2)The Partition plan of Palestine was adopted by the General Assembly, not the Security Council. Resolution of the General Assembly have the force of recommendations to member states of the United Nations but do not (unlike those of the Security Council) have any mandatory force.Therefore, the UN General Assembly vote to accept the recommendations of UNSCOP to partition Palestine into Jewish and Arab state did not mean that one or another state was being created over the objection of one of the parties. The UN General Asssembly vote was not an override of the Arab rejection.

The major reason why Arabs rejected the partition resolution was on the ground of fairness. It is proposed to give the minority an exclusive right to the majority of the land. In 1947, there were more than 1,237,332 Arabs and 608,225 Jews in Palestine. Thought Jewish people made up less than 33% of total population of Palestine and own only 6,59% of the land, UNGA resolution 181 suggested allocating 54% of Palestine to the proposed Jewish state. That plan was set to kick out 75% of Palestinian population from the part dedicated to an alien foreign minority who were never native to the land but immigrants from all over the world. Palestinians back then owned and operated 93% of Palestinian lands.

And the results are:

Having received the report of the Security Council on the
application of Israel for membership in the United Nations,
“ Noting that in the judgement of the Security Council, Israel
is a peace-loving State and is able and willing to carry out the
obligations contained in the Charter,
“ Noting that the Security Council has recommended to the
General Assembly that it admit Israel to membership in the
United Nations,

Israel joins the United Nations

Self defence is not applicable when Israel is actually just enforcing an illegal occupation. As has already been pointed out a dozen times at least, if this was even vaguely true, Israel would not have more UN resolutions raised against it than any other country in the world. The truth is, that Israel is Internationally recognised as having one of the world's worst records for crimes against humanity and lying to the international community.

Those UN resolutions are from the General Assembly which you just said have no mandatory force. Israel complied with ALL UN security resolutions, which cannot be said of some of its Arab neighbours.

 

[I3BrigPvSk]

Count Folke Bernadotte (together with French UN observer Andre Seraut) was killerd by fanatic terrorists, not at the orders of the Israeli government. He was assassinated because he was going to suggest that Jerusalem should not be part of Israel. The Israeli government cracked down on the terrorist group arresting many members and confiscating weapons. The group later disbanded due to public condemnation.



The attack on the USS Liberty was an error, it was not done deliberately. Therer were 10 official US investigations (the last one in 1991), all found no evidence in a deliberate attack.



You cannot condemn a nation for what some terrorists did. If Britain would have kept their word this propably wouldn't have occured.

The King David Hotel should have been evacuated but due to British ignorance and feel of invincibility that didn't happen.



what has that to do with legal immigrants?



Israeli United Nations membership date : 11 May 1949



Then almost all (if not all) countries are founded illegally because no one asked its people. My native country was founded against the will of the dutch speaking majority. Did Australia asked its native people if it was OK to establish a country?



And the results are:

Having received the report of the Security Council on the
application of Israel for membership in the United Nations,
“ Noting that in the judgement of the Security Council, Israel
is a peace-loving State and is able and willing to carry out the
obligations contained in the Charter,
“ Noting that the Security Council has recommended to the
General Assembly that it admit Israel to membership in the
United Nations,

Israel joins the United Nations



Those UN resolutions are from the General Assembly which you just said have no mandatory force. Israel complied with ALL UN security resolutions, which cannot be said of some of its Arab neighbours.

I have never accused all Israelis for it, only the few who did it and Jerusalem does belong to all faiths, if Israel decided to have J as their capital, they will lose the diplomatic contacts with the majority of the world.

 

[senojekips]

You cannot condemn a nation for what some terrorists did. If Britain would have kept their word this propably wouldn't have occured.

If Britain had kept their word It would be Palestine not Israel and it still almost certainly would have occurred. As I said earlier, "This seems to be typical wherever Israel is involved, so many atrocities and "accidents" involving those about them (but never them), all without any logical or reasonable explanation".

what has that to do with legal immigrants?

I presume that this means you don't know? If so, you shouldn't be even posting in this thread as you have no idea of the history behind it all.

 

[Yossarian]

The attack on the USS Liberty was an error, it was not done deliberately. Therer were 10 official US investigations (the last one in 1991), all found no evidence in a deliberate attack.

From the turning of the planes around to the Saratoga to the confusion and aprehension of the Israeli pilots to commence the attack, I feel extremely distrusting and suspicious of the nature of this attack.

Continued strafing and efforts to destroy life saving equiptment and targeting of life rafts proves a chilling reminder of this instance.

All interviews with even McNamara show extreme caution on the topic.

Pilot's later claimed siting no ensign, yet the second ensign was flown during the attack.

And a majority of the crew testifies that their location and wherabouts were clearly known.

Compound this with recent Israeli actions in the area and you can see why one would have nothing but distrust and suspicion of the Israeli government.

Some things deserve to be brought to the light, what happened then was criminal and I feel ashamed that our government has done nothing, but sadly I am not surprised.

 

[BritinBritain]

If Britain had kept their word It would be Palestine not Israel and it still almost certainly would have occurred. As I said earlier, "This seems to be typical wherever Israel is involved, so many atrocities and "accidents" involving those about them (but never them), all without any logical or reasonable explanation".

I presume that this means you don't know? If so, you shouldn't be even posting in this thread as you have no idea of the history behind it all.

As I said quite some time back, both Britain and France wrote cheques during WW1 that bounced after the war, which was an absolute disgrace.

 

[VDKMS]

I have never accused all Israelis for it, only the few who did it and Jerusalem does belong to all faiths, if Israel decided to have J as their capital, they will lose the diplomatic contacts with the majority of the world.

Jerusalem is the capital of Israel and the UN even lists it as such : UN data - Israel

If Britain had kept their word It would be Palestine not Israel and it still almost certainly would have occurred. As I said earlier, "This seems to be typical wherever Israel is involved, so many atrocities and "accidents" involving those about them (but never them), all without any logical or reasonable explanation".

It would not be Palestine, it would be a Jewish homeland, that's what they promised them. At that time there wasn't even talk about Palestinians as we now know them.

I presume that this means you don't know? If so, you shouldn't be even posting in this thread as you have no idea of the history behind it all.

There's no connection, it's made up in your mind.

Ever wondered why the "Palestinians" didn't revolt against the Turks? There were fewer Turks living in the region Palestine than Jews and yet the Turks ruled there. No one ever complained about that, including you. The Turks allowed Jewish immigration. The Turks started registering the properties in the region of Palestine. But when the Jews later ruled it suddenly became a problem. They did the same as the Turks, the only difference : religion.

You complain about Jews buying the land of Palestinians yet you are silent about the Moslem religious endowment fund (Waqf) who took away the land from Palestinians who couldn't pay off their debts.

You complain about Jews attacking Palestinians yet you are silent about Bedouin tribes, such as the notorious Ben Sakk'r, destroying complete Palestinian villages and corn fields.

Do you know what's wrong with the map om the left handside? It states the difference between Jewish owned land and Palestinian owned land. The truth is it's the difference between jewish owned land and non-Jewish owned land. Most of the land in the north belonged to rich Lebanese landowners. Most of the fertile lands in Palestine was in the hands of rich Syrian landowners and a big chunck of "Palestinian owned land" was in the hands of the Bedouins. And I omitted the lands in the hands of rich Egyptians and Kuwaities and that almost 50% of it was uninhabited.

If you really want to know about the "Palestian owned land" then read this.

 

[I3BrigPvSk]

Jerusalem is the capital of Israel and the UN even lists it as such : UN data - Israel



It would not be Palestine, it would be a Jewish homeland, that's what they promised them. At that time there wasn't even talk about Palestinians as we now know them.



There's no connection, it's made up in your mind.

Ever wondered why the "Palestinians" didn't revolt against the Turks? There were fewer Turks living in the region Palestine than Jews and yet the Turks ruled there. No one ever complained about that, including you. The Turks allowed Jewish immigration. The Turks started registering the properties in the region of Palestine. But when the Jews later ruled it suddenly became a problem. They did the same as the Turks, the only difference : religion.

You complain about Jews buying the land of Palestinians yet you are silent about the Moslem religious endowment fund (Waqf) who took away the land from Palestinians who couldn't pay off their debts.

You complain about Jews attacking Palestinians yet you are silent about Bedouin tribes, such as the notorious Ben Sakk'r, destroying complete Palestinian villages and corn fields.

Do you know what's wrong with the map om the left handside? It states the difference between Jewish owned land and Palestinian owned land. The truth is it's the difference between jewish owned land and non-Jewish owned land. Most of the land in the north belonged to rich Lebanese landowners. Most of the fertile lands in Palestine was in the hands of rich Syrian landowners and a big chunck of "Palestinian owned land" was in the hands of the Bedouins. And I omitted the lands in the hands of rich Egyptians and Kuwaities and that almost 50% of it was uninhabited.

If you really want to know about the "Palestian owned land" then read this.

Check what happened when Holland moved its embassy to J from Tel Aviv. Jerusalem is only the capital on the paper; the majority of countries have not recognized Jerusalem as Israel's capital. There are no embassies there and if they moved to J, they should prefer diplomatic contacts with the oil rich countries and Israel is not that important

 

[VDKMS]

Check what happened when Holland moved its embassy to J from Tel Aviv. Jerusalem is only the capital on the paper; the majority of countries have not recognized Jerusalem as Israel's capital. There are no embassies there and if they moved to J, they should prefer diplomatic contacts with the oil rich countries and Israel is not that important

The capital of the Netherlands is Amsterdam but the embassies are in Den Haag.
The capital of Israel is Jerusalem but the embassies are in Tel Aviv.
The UN Security Counsel resolution 478 (1980) asks the memberstates not to recognise the law that alters the character and status of Jerusalem.

 

[senojekips]

The capital of the Netherlands is Amsterdam but the embassies are in Den Haag.
The capital of Israel is Jerusalem but the embassies are in Tel Aviv.
The UN Security Counsel resolution 478 (1980) asks the memberstates not to recognise the law that alters the character and status of Jerusalem.

Jerusalem is in an occupied territory and as such can never be part of Israel.

Major Legal Principle Violated -

• 2. Occupation Must Never Lead To Sovereignty over Occupied or Conquered Lands of the Enemy People or Nation.

 

[I3BrigPvSk]

The capital of the Netherlands is Amsterdam but the embassies are in Den Haag.
The capital of Israel is Jerusalem but the embassies are in Tel Aviv.
The UN Security Counsel resolution 478 (1980) asks the memberstates not to recognise the law that alters the character and status of Jerusalem.

With a major difference. The capital of Holland is recognized internationally, Jerusalem is not. When Holland moved its embassy to Jerusalem, the oil rich countries stopped to ship oil to Holland with huge consequences for the majority of Europe when the majority of the oil for Europe is going through Holland.

 

[senojekips]

Typical IDF harassment of Palestinians going about the legal business.
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgTozA1aDe4"]Israeli soldiers violently arrest shepherd, disregard court rulings - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Yossarian]

Typical IDF harassment of Palestinians going about the legal business.
Israeli soldiers violently arrest shepherd, disregard court rulings - YouTube

You mean breathing to loud? Exsisting to much.

It kills me that we back these guys... And niether canidate has any real plans to challenge situations like this for our elections either.

If only I were a corporate backed multi millionare....Then maybe I could run for office?

 

[senojekips]

You mean breathing to loud? Exsisting to much.

It kills me that we back these guys... And niether canidate has any real plans to challenge situations like this for our elections either.

If only I were a corporate backed multi millionare....Then maybe I could run for office?

You could, and if you had enough wealthy friends who thought that they might be able to get something out of your being in office, no doubt you'd win.

 

[VDKMS]

Jerusalem is in an occupied territory and as such can never be part of Israel.

Originally Posted by Israeli Law Resource Centre
Major Legal Principle Violated -
2. Occupation Must Never Lead To Sovereignty over Occupied or Conquered Lands of the Enemy People or Nation.
[/LIST]

correction, East-Jerusalem is regarded as occupied, and remember that the "occupation" is not a black and white thing.

The occupation has not led (yet) to a sovereignity, so your quote from the Israeli Law Resource Centre is invalid (but that centre is only for anti-israeli readers who will swallow everything)

Besides, article V of the Oslo accords says that Jersualem (and other major issues) must be handled by permanent status negotiations.

So, as long as there is no permanent peace deal about East-Jerusalem with the Palestinians the occupation is valid because temporarily.

Typical IDF harassment of Palestinians going about the legal business.

The so called Israeli court ruling (the map) was not valid because it was not signed nor stamped. There are three areas in the West Bank, area A with full control of the Palestinians, area B with Palestinian administration and Israeli security and Area C with full control of the Israelis. Since they told the soldiers they had a Israeli court ruling they were in Area C. They had to follow the orders of the IDF, which they didn't so they got arrested. The IDF soldiers were very patient and what happend prior the "attack" is not on film. Since they forcefully arrested that guy while being filmed proves he must have done something wrong. Terrorist will try everything to get accros the border into Israel. The place where this is presumably filmed is just a few miles from the Israeli border. Why didn't they go with their sheep inside Palestinian controled areas?

 

[senojekips]

Sorry VD we've been through it all before,... no occupied lands can become part of Israel. Unless of course the Palestinians agree to it, and we all know how much hope there is of that. My quote is 100% valid and you know it. We are talking of International validity, not "Zionist validity"

 

[VDKMS]

Sorry VD we've been through it all before,... no occupied lands can become part of Israel. Unless of course the Palestinians agree to it, and we all know how much hope there is of that. My quote is 100% valid and you know it. We are talking of International validity, not "Zionist validity"

The Palestinians did agree. The Oslo accords (signed by the Palestinians and Israelis) agreed that area c falls under the Israeli administration and security. They are responsible for building infrastructure. Almost all (if not all) Israeli settlements are in area c. Less than 5% of the Palestinian population lives in area c.

The quote you gave, can you also tell me were to find the original? (Geneva conventions, UN charter or resolutions?)