So why do people hate Israel?

[Yossarian]

It baffles me why some people find this consequence of Israeli actions so difficult to understand.

It's plain as day, you don't need volumes of reports and studies to understand this.

This type of situation has taken place somewhere in almost every single century since the dawn of time.

When one group of peoples pushes into another group of people lands, and pretty much knicks all of their stuff and property these types of resistance and violence will occur. Especially when whats left of your backyard looks like a foreign military base.

 

[Del Boy]

I want to be 25 again, and all these pricks keep telling me that it ain't gunna happen.

When you push people off their land and beating, harassing and murdering those who resist, you have to expect some comeback, unless of course you are a Zionist. Then you whine like a petulant child, because the kid you have been beating up all these years has given you a fat lip.

Rubbish answer. Try again.

 

[VDKMS]

You are well aware that Israel was occupied by illegal European immigrants prior to 1947 and the flood has never stopped. It was only because the Brits tryed to stop this illegal immigration that the Jewish terrorist group Irgun bombed the King David Hotel. No occupation eh,... pity you were never aware of some of the most basic facts about the case.

Most Jews came to Palestine legally during the Ottoman Empire and the British Mandate. All citizens living in Palestine during the British mandate recieved Palestinian citizenship. Almost all Arabs came to Palestine illegaly.

The Palestinians had every right to reject the partition just as you would have if I took over your home and gave you the choice of settling for only a part of it.

Yes they had the right to reject it but thet were wrong.

The occupation by civil population is Illegal under International Law as has been posted here many, many times.

Then what are you doing in Australia?

When you push people off their land and beating, harassing and murdering those who resist, you have to expect some comeback, unless of course you are a Zionist. Then you whine like a petulant child, because the kid you have been beating up all these years has given you a fat lip.

That's right. The Palestinians attacked Jews in Jerusalem first, Jews who were living there longer than the attackers did. When Israel was founded they didn't start the war, they were attacked by several Arab (muslim) states. They destroyed Jewish legal settlements and expelled the Jews from East Jerusalem that has been Jewish longer than Islam exists. They destroyed all their synagogues and their biggest graveyard. Like you said, you have to expect some comeback, and a comeback it was!

It baffles me why some people find this consequence of Israeli actions so difficult to understand.

It's plain as day, you don't need volumes of reports and studies to understand this.

This type of situation has taken place somewhere in almost every single century since the dawn of time.

When one group of peoples pushes into another group of people lands, and pretty much knicks all of their stuff and property these types of resistance and violence will occur. Especially when whats left of your backyard looks like a foreign military base.

because this is about religion, not about land, otherwise the invading Arab (muslim) armies would have given the land to the Palestinians which they didn't. Jordan annexed the West Bank and East jerusalem and Egypt Gaza.

 

[benaakatz]

it is about land.

but there are two just, moral claims to this land.

most people see this.

and i will continue to defend the jewish people against your defamation time and time again. and i will do so with my head raised high.

no that does not mean i accept everything israel has done, or that they haven't made mistakes.

but i will proudly defend the jewish people's right to a homeland in part of of their national and ancestral (and continual homeland, jews retained a demographic majority in the eastern galilee throughout their years in exile).

 

[senojekips]

it is about land.

but there are two just, moral claims to this land.

most people see this.

Well,... you'd better tell that to VD, he insists that it's nothing to do with land, it's all about religion.?.?.?
Of course you are right, it's definitely about the land, a land stolen from it's inhabitants by a murderous and greedy oppressor. There maybe two claims, but there is only one "moral" claim, as the Jews have no claim whatsoever, no more than you or I do to any other land where our forefathers have lived over the millennia.

Tell me, What other lands have your ancestors lived in, in the last two thousand years other than the USA and perhaps Palestine? What would be your chances of going back to any one of them without valid travel documentation and ejecting the occupants at gunpoint, whilst declaring that it is your "Right" to do so because once upon a time, you ancestors lived there?.?.?.?.... The answer to this might just give you an insight into the legitimacy of your rather stupid claim.

and i will continue to defend the jewish people against your defamation time and time again. and i will do so with my head raised high.

Again you try to confuse the issue and obfuscate the truth. I have never defamed the "Jewish" people I have just shown the truth about a very toxic selection of them,... the Zionists, who are effectively the Westboro Baptists of Judaism, and a great many "Jews" agree with me.

What a person stands for is an accurate reflection of their worth as a human being. The world has always had a percentage of ratbags and morally bankrupt people who for reasons only known to themselves, make obviously self centred and ill informed decisions supporting rogue regimes such as you have done, no different to those who defend(ed) the actions of the Nazis, and not only deny the Holocaust but defend it as something that was absolutely necessary and for that matter, unfinished. I see that as nothing to be proud of.

but i will proudly defend the jewish people's right to a homeland in part of of their national and ancestral (and continual homeland, jews retained a demographic majority in the eastern galilee throughout their years in exile).

As has been shown on this forum a dozen times, the Zionists have no more right to Palestine than you or I do to any of the lands inhabited by our forefathers.

Oh,.... and it may come as a shock to you, but the Jews were never, ever ( not even in the alleged day of King David) a majority in Palestine, not until after 1947. The figures below are from the Jewish Virtual Library if you can believe them?

 

[r.fox]

Well all that really shows is that there were 543,000 Jews to 1,267,000 non Jews. Do you have any more recent figures

 

[senojekips]

Well all that really shows is that there were 543,000 Jews to 1,267,000 non Jews. Do you have any more recent figures

you only quoted one year of about 1300 or more that the Jews were in so called exile. Of course there are more details,... but it were neither part of the original statement and so not part of my answer.

If you want to be part of the debate, at least do yourself the favour of keeping up with what is being talked about.

 

[VDKMS]

So the Palestinians always had a majority? Then why didn't they asked or demanded their own country?

On the other hand it is easy to have a majority if you expell the others. Before the invasion of the Arabs in the 7th century there were only jews and christians living there. In 1012, Caliph Al Hakim ordered to the Non-Muslims in Palestine either “to embrace Islam”- or leave the land. Most jews left and a flood of Arab peasants occupied their land, or should I say "stole".

Fact is that the Jews have had a country of their own before. There also were many Jewish uprisings to get it back but they had to wait until they got one from the International Community.

Did you know that in 60 AD there were 700.000 jews living in Judea? (Adolf Harnack : Ausbreitung des Christentums, Leipzig, 1902)

Did you know that since the Jewish conquest in 1272 BCE, the Jews have had dominion over the land for one thousand years with a continuous presence in the land for the past 3,300 years.


Quote from Charles Krauthammer - The Weekly Standard, May 11, 1998

"Israel is the very embodiment of Jewish continuity: It is the only nation on earth that inhabits the same land, bears the same name, speaks the same language, and worships the same God that it did 3,000 years ago. You dig the soil and you find pottery from Davidic times, coins from Bar Kokhba, and 2,000-year-old scrolls written in a script remarkably like the one that today advertises ice cream at the corner candy store."

 

[r.fox]

you only quoted one year of about 1300 or more that the Jews were in so called exile. Of course there are more details,... but it were neither part of the original statement and so not part of my answer.

If you want to be part of the debate, at least do yourself the favour of keeping up with what is being talked about.

why dont you provide the rest of us with more up to date information?anyway, most of this topic is about opinions, facts come in later to support the opinions

 

[senojekips]

why dont you provide the rest of us with more up to date information?anyway, most of this topic is about opinions, facts come in later to support the opinions

I'm flattered that you think that I'm gifted with god like powers, but even I can only answer the questions that are asked.

I supplied a cross section of figures covering that period in which records are known to have been kept. What else do you want? In fact this was not needed either as it is well known and has all been answered previously.

Look at the figures, you'll soon work it out, the Arab/Palestinian population had always outnumbered that of the Jews pre 1948.

 

[Yossarian]

I'm flattered that you think that I'm gifted with god like powers, but even I can only answer the questions that are asked.

I supplied a cross section of figures covering that period in which records are known to have been kept. What else do you want? In fact this was not needed either as it is well known and has all been answered previously.

Look at the figures, you'll soon work it out, the Arab/Palestinian population had always outnumbered that of the Jews pre 1948.

I would simpley like your post, but even that would do such injustice to it's contents.

 

[senojekips]

I would simpley like your post, but even that would do such injustice to it's contents.

What he doesn't grasp is the fact that irrespective of the numbers,... todays Jews still have no valid claim on a land they have not lived in for 1300 years.

The Romans (and many others) once ruled the whole area, including the minority of Jews there. None of them have any claim, so why is it that the Jews feel that they should?

The answer of course is, that they don't.

 

[VDKMS]

Jews and Christians have always lived in Palestine only the Arabs (muslims) came much later, they invaded in the 7th century. The Jews were expelled (refused to convert to Islam and didn't want to be 2nd class citizens as the christians) and had to wait untill the 20th century to get their land back (with the support of the International Community).

 

[senojekips]

I can't see VDs posts, but I'll guarantee it's a red herring that in no way disproves my statement.

What he doesn't grasp is the fact that irrespective of the numbers,... todays Jews still have no valid claim on a land they have not lived in for 1300 years.

The Romans (and many others) once ruled the whole area, including the minority of Jews there. None of them have any claim, so why is it that the Jews feel that they should?

The answer of course is, that they don't.

For any who have the slightest doubts, watch this documentary on the things about Zionism you will not be told by the Israelis, especially at about the 8:00 minute mark.

Zionism it's Causes and Effects

 

[BritinBritain]

I found this photograph which may be of interest.

 

[hamidreza]

I found this photograph which may be of interest.

They are the Jews who are too fanatic and always give a gift to Ahmadinejad when he go to new york for the UN annual meeting. I have heard that they believe that the Jews be refugee two times in their history( as per their Scripture). One time they were released by Cyrus from Babylon and the next time they will be release by their savior in future. So till that time the Jews don't have to come back to Palestine and shall remain as a refugee. I don't know this story is correct or not. Some of them were in a conference about Holocaust in Tehran a few years ago.

 

[VDKMS]

People who do not have the truth on their side kling on to whatever gives them a reason to think they are right: someone holding up a banner, an interview, youtube video or whatever. If one Jew gives them right it is taken as proof, that 1 million disagree is being ignored. Rule of law is being ignored. facts are being ignored or twisted.

About 5% of the Palestinians support violence against Israel and about the same percentage of Israelis wants Palestine to become Israel.

I have given here tons of facts, brushed away by others with opinions.

Why must the region of Palestine be given another treatment than other regions in the world?

When someone buys a home in whatever country from whatever nationality it is legal. When a Jew buys a home from a Palestinian it's called stealing. Why?

When whatever country attacks another country the defender has the legal ability to strike back and everyone approve this. When Arab countries attack Israel and Israel strikes back it's called abuse of power or agression. Why?

The creation of Israel by the International community is labeled by pro Palestinians as illegal. If that same International community condems Israel they are a highly regarded community. Why?

Palestinians who fled (were advised to) the war got UNRWA assistence, at the same time almost all Jews were expelled from Arab countries and didn't get UNRWA assistence. Why?

Arab countries refused to absorb Palestinian refugees while Israel absorbed 600.000 Jewish refugees. Why?

When Israel establises a council to administer the homes of people who fled because of the war it creates an outrage. When Arab countries vote a law to confiscate Jewish properties an financials everyone is silent. Why?

Israel has proven it can make peace with neighbours. Palestinians have never made peace. Yet Israel is being accused of refusing to make peace. Why?

Israel has never said that it will destroy any other country. Other countries vie for the destruction of Israel (Hamas has it even in his covenant!). Yet Israel is labeled an agressor. Why?

All over the world countries have been conquered, established or changed. All over the world those people living there rolled up their sleeves and started working again. Only the Palestinians keep complaining that they don't have what they refused before.

If there is an uprising in a country because foreigners are bying up their land they attack the foreigners. Not so the Palestinians. They attack people who lived their for generations while they are praying! Why?

 

[O.W.E.G.]

Israel has never made peace with the Palestinians nor did it even try too
and i wont be surprised if they never do as long as America is backing them up they can go around killing people and as long as they have the media in their grip they can make people such as u VD think that they are being attacked but the world is not stupid it is slowly starting to realize who are the real aggressors.

and a religion cant just "claim" a land just because people of their religion were living there before another religion came there and when Muslims entered Palestine they didn't force them into Islam and and if your main point is Jews lived there first so descendants of the American tribes that lived there first can claim the land as their own and live there and kick out all Americans who are descendants of the Europeans.

and if the Arab states absorbed the Palestinian (land owners not refugees) there wouldn't be any Palestinians left isn't that like giving Palestine as gift to Israel ?

and if i march into your country with an army and claim is it mine because my ancestors lived there then you organize a resistance and fight back i can call you a terrorist then right?

 

[senojekips]

---snip--- and if the Arab states absorbed the Palestinian (land owners not refugees) there wouldn't be any Palestinians left isn't that like giving Palestine as gift to Israel ?

Believe it or not, that is exactly what the Israelis want and expect. The cheek and stupidity of it all is unbelievable, but as you say, now that the Palestinian cause has such things as easy access to the Internet, the world is gradually opening it's eyes and waking up to what has been going on all this time.

One only has to look at the relatively large number of Jews and Jewish backed organisations that support the Palestinian cause to realise that even the genuine Jews are embarrassed at the Nazi like ambitions of the Zionists. You won't find anything similar in the way of Palestinians supporting the Israeli cause, except perhaps a few living in Israeli who are in fear of further Israeli persecution.

 

[VDKMS]

Israel has never made peace with the Palestinians nor did it even try too
and i wont be surprised if they never do as long as America is backing them up they can go around killing people and as long as they have the media in their grip they can make people such as u VD think that they are being attacked but the world is not stupid it is slowly starting to realize who are the real aggressors.

Wrong : Oslo Accords

and a religion cant just "claim" a land just because people of their religion were living there before another religion came there and when Muslims entered Palestine they didn't force them into Islam and and if your main point is Jews lived there first so descendants of the American tribes that lived there first can claim the land as their own and live there and kick out all Americans who are descendants of the Europeans.

Israel is not a theocracy but a democracy. You are talking about some Jewish clerics or fanatical settlers. I don't like them as I don't like their Muslim counterparts.
Societies come and go. Some survive or come back others are destroyed.
Jewish society was among the first, got beaten and came back. What's wrong about that?

and if the Arab states absorbed the Palestinian (land owners not refugees) there wouldn't be any Palestinians left isn't that like giving Palestine as gift to Israel ?

about 160.000 Palestinian Arabs didn't flee or returned to Israel. Jews were not able (not allowed) to return to their homes in Arab countries.

and if i march into your country with an army and claim is it mine because my ancestors lived there then you organize a resistance and fight back i can call you a terrorist then right?

Wrong comparison. Why didn't the Palestinians asked for or created their own country when could? Did they try it under the Ottoman Empire? Or when Jordan and Egypt annexed (!) "their" land? Or when it was given to them by the International community? For that peice of land that they first refused they are fighting know to get it.

So many opportunities lost. Isn't it time to roll up their sleeves and start building their country? All that Israel asks is security, no more mortars or inaccurate rockets or suicide bombers.

You are blaming Israel for not making peace. Can you tell me what the Palestinians have done to promote peace? Hamas has the destruction of Israel written in their covenant Can you make peace with a neighbour who says he's going to kill you?