So why do people hate Israel?

[benaakatz]

yes, but the palestinians really screwed up in the eyes of the moderate two state supporting israeli public with the whole gaza debacle.

israel withdrew from gaza in 2005 (as they should have) leaving the palestinians with an opportunity to show that they would start building a peaceful state. there was talk worldwide of gaza becoming a sort of hong kong of the middle east. the ball was in the palestinians court.

and they dropped it. they idiotically destroyed the green houses the israelis left for them. they proceeded to turn the strip into a rocket launching base against israeli towns.

and when hamas took power, instead of running the country and providing for their people they made rocketing israeli civilians their number one priority.

and naturally the israeli public voted for the right who promised to be tougher on the rocket fire (the previous gov pretty much just took it)

after cast lead hamas woke up and realized they couldn't keep pulling this s**t. but it's too late. they were brought into power b/c fatah was corrupt. now they have become corrupt. worse yet, there are now more extreme groups than hamas running around gaza who don't listen to them and try to attack israel at every opportunity. hamas has been running a few hundred man unit dedicated to stopping these rogue groups.

the longer hamas continues its rejectionist stance, the more gaza will be run into the ground unfortunately. and the palestinians in gaza are fed up with hamas

 

[senojekips]

yes, but the palestinians really screwed up in the eyes of the moderate two state supporting israeli public with the whole gaza debacle.

Like the Jews screwed up in the eyes of the Nazis when they complained about their treatment.

israel withdrew from gaza in 2005 (as they should have) leaving the palestinians with an opportunity to show that they would start building a peaceful state. there was talk worldwide of gaza becoming a sort of hong kong of the middle east. the ball was in the palestinians court.

Only after years of International pressure and condemnation, the israeli occupiers withdrew from a place they never had any right to be in the first place. Before doing so they completely destroyed all the existing Israeli infrastucture leaving the area like a bomb site, and then turned the agreed ceasefire into a siege, blocking all but the most basic foodstuffs which in turn were allowed only in volumes barely sufficient to sustain life. All documented by half a dozen International aid agencies.

The remainder of your post is complete rubbish in a similar vein.

This is why people hate Israel, they are unapologetic liars.

Lies, Exagerations and More Lies

 

[benaakatz]

see there you just ignored the whole point of my post. why did the siege happen?

b/c hamas would not sieze rocketing israeli towns

and you also ignored my point about the greenhouses

 

[benaakatz]

and i couldn't give a flying f--- about the international fellowship of christians and jews. i'm an agnostic

 

[senojekips]

see there you just ignored the whole point of my post. why did the siege happen?

b/c hamas would not sieze rocketing israeli towns

and you also ignored my point about the greenhouses

The siege happened, as was admitted by disgruntled IDF members, to provoke the Gazans into some sort of retaliation, this in fact is what led to Operation Cast Lead, it was all pre-planned.

Greenhouses? no doubt the israeli bulldozers made short work of them just as they did the remainder of anything the Israelis built there. Why would they leave them standing after bulldozing thousands of homes and ripping up the streets and destroying electrical, sewage and water utilities. (including wells and cisterns that were put in place hundreds of years before the Israelis even arrived in the area).

If you were up to date on the the discussion you would realise that the subject of the home made skyrockets was discussed many months ago, and they were sent across after almost 12 months of siege conditions to remind the Israelis that they were not upholding the conditions of the ceasefire.

 

[benaakatz]

bullocks.

first of all show me a source for these disgruntled soldiers.

secondly, they started shooting kassams in 2001. 2002 was the first time they were launched into israel. check your basic facts.

and yet again you fail to answer this simple point: israel withdrew in 2005, they gave the palestinians in gaza a chance to start building a state. at the time, israel was commended worldwide for this step. but the palestinians screwed the pooch.

 

[benaakatz]

The Intelligence and Terrorism Information Center reports that the number of Palestinian rockets fired per year[21] were:

2001:   4
2002:  35
2003: 155
2004: 281
2005: 179
2006: 946
2007: 896

the siege didn't start till june 2007, after hamas wouldn't stop rocketing israeli civilians

you ever stop to think, if they didn't fire rockets, there would be no israeli reprisals/counterstrikes? DUH

 

[senojekips]

The Intelligence and Terrorism Information Center reports that the number of Palestinian rockets fired per year[21] were:

2001:   4
2002:  35
2003: 155
2004: 281
2005: 179
2006: 946
2007: 896

the siege didn't start till june 2007, after hamas wouldn't stop rocketing israeli civilians

you ever stop to think, if they didn't fire rockets, there would be no israeli reprisals/counterstrikes? DUH

I thought we were talking about Gaza.

see there you just ignored the whole point of my post. why did the siege happen?

b/c hamas would not sieze rocketing israeli towns

It happened in Gaza so it's reasonable to assume that is what you are talking about, is it not?

So,... did you ever stop to think that if the Israelis never occupied other people's land, the Palestinians wouldn't have a target? Duh!,...

PS you are learning bad habits off VD. Forum rules state that you are to only post one post at a time, I nearly missed your other ridiculous answer

The Israelis never gave the Palestinians a chance to do anything, before they withdrew, they had already planned and put into place their provocation (siege) and pre planned cast lead.

 

[benaakatz]

In a short story by an Israeli boy from Sderot, he imagined accidentally flying his remote-controlled plane over Gaza where he inadvertently bombed – or, more accurately, bon-bonned – the Palestinians with his payload of sweets, which led to such joy that everyone dropped their weapons, and peace reigned.

these are the children who get bombarded, suffer from PTSD, and can't stop wetting their beds at night in sheer terror.

it is absolutely despicable that you continue to support these attacks. you should be ashamed

 

[senojekips]

In a short story by an Israeli boy from Sderot, he imagined accidentally flying his remote-controlled plane over Gaza where he inadvertently bombed – or, more accurately, bon-bonned – the Palestinians with his payload of sweets, which led to such joy that everyone dropped their weapons, and peace reigned.

these are the children who get bombarded, suffer from PTSD, and can't stop wetting their beds at night in sheer terror.

it is absolutely despicable that you continue to support these attacks. you should be ashamed

WTF is wrong with you.

You whine about israeli children who have been deliberately placed in harms way by their own parents, wetting their beds, and totally ignore the many thousands of Palestinian women and children living in their own country who have been harassed, terrorised, beaten, driven out of their homes and often killed by both the IDF and peaceful Israeli "settlers". Do you not think that they might jump at the chance to only suffer wetting their beds and suffering PTSD?

As for our previous post, read this.

Well, that line of thinking got quite a boost when Wikileaks released a cable earlier this week containing an American report on a meeting with Israeli Defense Minister, Ehud Barak. Here is the relevant passage:
3. (S) Regarding the Tahdiya, Hacham said Barak stressed that while it was not permanent, for the time being it was holding. There have been a number of violations of the ceasefire on the Gaza side, but Palestinian factions other than Hamas were responsible. Hacham said the Israelis assess that Hamas is making a serious effort to convince the other factions not to launch rockets or mortars. Israel remains concerned by Hamas’ ongoing efforts to use the Tahdiya to increase their strength, and at some point, military action will have to be put back on the table. The Israelis reluctantly admit that the Tahdiya has served to further consolidate Hamas’ grip on Gaza, but it has brought a large measure of peace and quiet to Israeli communities near Gaza.
Certainly, those who put forth the theory that Israel willfully provoked the Hamas escalation that precipitated the massive Israeli attack that started on December 27, 2008 and lasted until just before Barack Obama’s inauguration believe this cable proves they were right. Source: http://mitchellplitnick.com/2011/02/08/did-israel-provoke-increase-in-rockets-to-justify-operation-cast-lead/

There's more,... lots more if you were only willing to look. And yes, the author, Mitchell Plitnick, is a Jew

 

[senojekips]

In a short story by an Israeli boy from Sderot, he imagined accidentally flying his remote-controlled plane over Gaza where he inadvertently bombed – or, more accurately, bon-bonned – the Palestinians with his payload of sweets, which led to such joy that everyone dropped their weapons, and peace reigned.

these are the children who get bombarded, suffer from PTSD, and can't stop wetting their beds at night in sheer terror.

it is absolutely despicable that you continue to support these attacks. you should be ashamed

WTF is wrong with you.

You whine about israeli children who have been deliberately placed in hams way wetting their beds, and totally ignore the tens of thousands of Palestinian women and children trying to live in their own country who have been terrorised, beaten, driven out of their homes and often killed by both the IDF and "peaceful settlers".

Prevalence and determinants of PTSD among Palestinian children exposed to military violence.

Qouta S, Punamäki RL, El Sarraj E.
Source

Gaza Community Mental Health Programme, PO Box 1049, Gaza City, Palestine.

Abstract

The prevalence and determinants of PTSD were assessed among 121 Palestinian children (6-16 years; 45% girls and 55% boys) living in the area of bombardment. The mothers (21-55 years) and the children themselves reported their exposure to military violence (being personally the target of violence or witnessing it towards others) and symptoms of posttraumatic stress disorders (PTSD: intrusion, avoidance and hypervigilance). The results showed that 54% of the children suffered from severe, 33.5 % from moderate and 11 % from mild and doubtful levels of PTSD. Girls were more vulnerable; 58% of them suffered from severe PTSD, and none scored on the mild or doubtful levels of PTSD. The child's gender and age, mother's education and PTSD symptoms were significant, and the exposure to traumatic experiences marginally significant determinants of children's PTSD symptoms. The most vulnerable to intrusion symptoms were younger girls whose mothers showed a high level of PTSD symptoms, whereas those most vulnerable to avoidance symptoms were children who had personally been targets of military violence and whose mothers were better educated and showed a high level of PTSD symptoms. The results are discussed in the context of military violence interfering with the protective function of family and home.

As for our previous post regarding Israel's provocation, read this:-

Well, that line of thinking got quite a boost when Wikileaks released a cable earlier this week containing an American report on a meeting with Israeli Defense Minister, Ehud Barak. Here is the relevant passage:
3. (S) Regarding the Tahdiya, Hacham said Barak stressed that while it was not permanent, for the time being it was holding. There have been a number of violations of the ceasefire on the Gaza side, but Palestinian factions other than Hamas were responsible. Hacham said the Israelis assess that Hamas is making a serious effort to convince the other factions not to launch rockets or mortars. Israel remains concerned by Hamas’ ongoing efforts to use the Tahdiya to increase their strength, and at some point, military action will have to be put back on the table. The Israelis reluctantly admit that the Tahdiya has served to further consolidate Hamas’ grip on Gaza, but it has brought a large measure of peace and quiet to Israeli communities near Gaza.
Certainly, those who put forth the theory that Israel willfully provoked the Hamas escalation that precipitated the massive Israeli attack that started on December 27, 2008 and lasted until just before Barack Obama’s inauguration believe this cable proves they were right. Source: http://mitchellplitnick.com/2011/02/08/did-israel-provoke-increase-in-rockets-to-justify-operation-cast-lead/

There's more,... lots more if you were only willing to look. And yes, Mitchell Plitnick is a Jew

 

[Yossarian]

Its always the kicking and screaming assosiated with this truth, but if anything is to be bettered in this situation , I think a logical census can agree, its that step one would be withdrawl of all Israeli troops and settlements from Gaza and the West Bank.

 

[VDKMS]

As for our previous post, read this.

Well, that line of thinking got quite a boost when Wikileaks released a cable earlier this week containing an American report on a meeting with Israeli Defense Minister, Ehud Barak. Here is the relevant passage:
3. (S) Regarding the Tahdiya, Hacham said Barak stressed that while it was not permanent, for the time being it was holding. There have been a number of violations of the ceasefire on the Gaza side, but Palestinian factions other than Hamas were responsible. Hacham said the Israelis assess that Hamas is making a serious effort to convince the other factions not to launch rockets or mortars. Israel remains concerned by Hamas’ ongoing efforts to use the Tahdiya to increase their strength, and at some point, military action will have to be put back on the table. The Israelis reluctantly admit that the Tahdiya has served to further consolidate Hamas’ grip on Gaza, but it has brought a large measure of peace and quiet to Israeli communities near Gaza.
Certainly, those who put forth the theory that Israel willfully provoked the Hamas escalation that precipitated the massive Israeli attack that started on December 27, 2008 and lasted until just before Barack Obama’s inauguration believe this cable proves they were right. Source: http://mitchellplitnick.com/2011/02...se-in-rockets-to-justify-operation-cast-lead/

There's more,... lots more if you were only willing to look. And yes, the author, Mitchell Plitnick, is a Jew

You are taking the readers for a ride like always by giving the impression that this is about the same article while in fact it is from two articles, one the leak an the other, in red, an opinion. Not everyone cheques out the links so it is up to you to clearly distinguish fact from opinion.

 

[VDKMS]

WTF is wrong with you.

You whine about israeli children who have been deliberately placed in hams way wetting their beds, and totally ignore the tens of thousands of Palestinian women and children trying to live in their own country who have been terrorised, beaten, driven out of their homes and often killed by both the IDF and "peaceful settlers".As for our previous post regarding Israel's provocation, read this:-

There's more,... lots more if you were only willing to look. And yes, Mitchell Plitnick is a Jew

The Israeli children suffer from it because of attacks. The Palestinian children suffer from it because of retaliation. When retaliation stops the attacks go on. When attacks stop so does the retaliation.
The Palestinians cut of the wing of their bird and then complain it can't fly.

About giving Gaza back to the Palestinians:

Hamas, refused to accept the conditions set by the so-called quartet of Middle East peacemakers, including renouncing violence, recognizing Israel’s right to exist and accepting previous signed agreements between Israel and the Palestine Liberation Organization.

2004 - At least 281 rockets
2005 - Israel withdrew from Gaza.
2005 - 1,255 rockets were fired at Israel
2006 - 1,777 rockets were fired at Israel
2006 - Israel and Egypt imposed a strict economic embargo on the area, allowing in only basic supplies.
2007 - 1,639 attacks
jan 2008 - 19 june 2008 2378 rockets and mortars were launched
june - oktober 2008 - 37 attacks
nov - dec 2008 - 795 rockets and mortar attacks
27 dec 2008 - operation cast lead started.
2009 - 569 rockets and 289 mortars
2010 - 150 rocket launches and 215 mortar launches
2010 - Israel substantially eases the blockade of Gaza
2011 - 680 rockets, mortars and Grad missiles
Now nearly all consumer goods are allowed in and small amounts of exports are permitted.

This clearly shows that if the Palestinians "behave" it gets better and when they get agressive it gets worse.

Israel must make peace with a neighbour that want its destruction. Try to figure out how to do that!

 

[benaakatz]

yup. simple fact is, once again, if there were no rockets there would be no israeli responses to stop them.

i truly feel for the palestinians in gaza, but like usual, their leaders have stuck them in this current predicament and it shows...the majority of them now oppose hamas.

and once again i do not defend the continued occupation or settlers. i detest the settlers. they are destroying the jewish people's dream to finally be a free people in their own homeland. they are religious nut bags who need to be stopped (like hamas on the palestinian side)

but we do have to remember. from 1948 to 1967 there was no occupation. the arabs should have set up a palestinian state then (even if their goal was the eventual conquest of all of palestine/israel, they could have started with setting up a state in the WB and gaza). but they didn't. know why? cuz sadly, the arabs don't really give two s**ts about the palestinians. egypt's military occupation in gaza was far more brutal than the current israeli one.

when the arab states invaded in 1948 they planned to carve up the territory between themselves (egypt, jordan, syria). they didn't give two s**ts aboust self determination for the palestinians

and mahmoud abbas has repeatedly said the palestinian people's biggest mistake was REJECTING THE 1947 PARTITION. are you more palestinian than abbas seno? do you know more than him? i think not

 

[senojekips]

yup. simple fact is, once again, if there were no rockets there would be no israeli responses to stop them.

yup simple fact is, once again if there were no Israelis occupiers the Palestinians wouldn't have to resist their land's illegal occupation.

i truly feel for the palestinians in gaza, but like usual, their leaders have stuck them in this current predicament and it shows...the majority of them now oppose hamas.

I have no sympathy for the occupiers of Palestine because they have elected to place themselves in the current predicament, the majority of them oppose their government,....

Need I go on? Is this the best you can do now that your previous posts have been shown to be just pure rubbish?

 

[benaakatz]

but there was no occupation in 1947!

israel accepted the partition plan.

occupation was the result of the 1967 war.

you have still not answered this point

 

[senojekips]

but there was no occupation in 1947!

israel accepted the partition plan.

occupation was the result of the 1967 war.

you have still not answered this point

What point, there is no point.

You are well aware that Israel was occupied by illegal European immigrants prior to 1947 and the flood has never stopped. It was only because the Brits tryed to stop this illegal immigration that the Jewish terrorist group Irgun bombed the King David Hotel. No occupation eh,... pity you were never aware of some of the most basic facts about the case.

The Palestinians had every right to reject the partition just as you would have if I took over your home and gave you the choice of settling for only a part of it.

The occupation by civil population is Illegal under International Law as has been posted here many, many times.

Every point you have raised has been answered, virtually all of them several times. Repetition of your questions is not going to change the answers.

Bye, bye,....

 

[r.fox]

the jews in 1947 wanted a country, which they now have.
the Palestinians launch rockets not only to gain a country which they have, but for the complete destruction of isreal.

 

[senojekips]

the jews in 1947 wanted a country, which they now have.
the Palestinians launch rockets not only to gain a country which they have, but for the complete destruction of isreal.

I want to be 25 again, and all these pricks keep telling me that it ain't gunna happen.

When you push people off their land and beating, harassing and murdering those who resist, you have to expect some comeback, unless of course you are a Zionist. Then you whine like a petulant child, because the kid you have been beating up all these years has given you a fat lip.