yes i know that the israelis soldiers did kill civilians, most of the time without provocation. but remember that it would have been worse for the jews in arab states. even before Israel was created. at least now the jews have somewhere to go. in any one of the Arab-Israel wars the Israelis should have been beaten. but they weren`t. what would have happened to the Israeli civilians if Israel had lost?
The Jews have always had places to go. My Great Grandparents family being a perfect example of that. They went to Palestine in 1852 and lived in peace with their Palestinian neighbours, but once the Zionists started arriving in the 1880 - 90s and started making trouble they very wisely left and came to Australia.
The Zionists mistake was in demanding a land that was already claimed by a people who had lived and worked there uninterrupted for millennia.
What do you think would happen if I were to go back to England and just take over the lands of my forefathers, beating and murdering those who resisted me?
The Jews have always had places to go. My Great Grandparents family being a perfect example of that. They went to Palestine in 1852 and lived in peace with their Palestinian neighbours, but once the Zionists started arriving in the 1880 - 90s and started making trouble they very wisely left and came to Australia.
So a Jew is allowed to go to any part in the world except Palestine? If he goes to Palestine and buys a property from a Palestinian he is stealing the land. If he goes to Australia and he buys a property from an Australian it is not stealing the land? Where's the logic of that!
If you want to know who "owns" the land in Palestine you must go to the land register bureau. In the 19th century the Ottoman Turks registered all the property owners and all selling and buying was kept on paper. As did the following rulers. Your notion on "owning the land" is wrong.
The Zionists mistake was in demanding a land that was already claimed by a people who had lived and worked there uninterrupted for millennia.
The Zionists did not demand the land, they bought or rented it. That's legal. If a Palestinian claims the land is his, he must go to the land register bureau and ask for a copy of his land ownership. It is that simple.
What do you think would happen if I were to go back to England and just take over the lands of my forefathers, beating and murdering those who resisted me?
When you go back to England you first check with the land register bureau who now owns that property. Then you go to him and buy it. If you then bought it and he attacks you claiming it is his property for generations then you are allowed to defend yourself. If he dies while attacking you, you were in a state of self defence and not guilty of murder.
Of course he can go anywhere he likes, including Palestine,.......... provided he has a current visa issued in the name of that country, the same as anyone else. There's a vast difference between "going", and "invading".
Your utter stupidity seems to be peaking, have you been practicing elsewhere?
Of course he can go anywhere he likes, including Palestine,.......... provided he has a current visa issued in the name of that country, the same as anyone else. There's a vast difference between "going", and "invading".
Your utter stupidity seems to be peaking, have you been practicing elsewhere?
I know we have our differences, and I am not trying to stab at those.
But I am wondering about your stance on how the U.S. in your opinion can vastly change it's foreign policy to improve the situation of Palestine greatly.
This is a honset question , I have read your viewpoints throughout the thread and am wondering how you think Israel's big brother may be able to influence them to take off the jackboots.
I know we have our differences, and I am not trying to stab at those.
But I am wondering about your stance on how the U.S. in your opinion can vastly change it's foreign policy to improve the situation of Palestine greatly.
This is a honset question , I have read your viewpoints throughout the thread and am wondering how you think Israel's big brother may be able to influence them to take off the jackboots.
Well,... The first thing you would need to do is to stop fooling yourself the you are Israel's big brother, in actual fact, regardless of your disparate size and military and economic power, you are for the want of a better term, "their *****". Stop perpetrating the myth to the US taxpayers, that Israel is your ally, and that they have US interests at heart.
Then perhaps a policy that applies the same pressures on the Israelis that it does on other rogue countries. I think you'd be surprised to see what it would do to minimise global Islamic terror.
Well,... The first thing you would need to do is to stop fooling yourself the you are Israel's big brother, in actual fact, regardless of your disparate size and military and economic power, you are for the want of a better term, "their *****". Stop perpetrating the myth to the US taxpayers, that Israel is your ally, and that they have US interests at heart.
Then perhaps a policy that applies the same pressures on the Israelis that it does on other rogue countries. I think you'd be surprised to see what it would do to minimise global Islamic terror.
We have our differences, I know, we may have different ideas, let leave that out for a moement.
But on this one topic, I agree, you and I share the same logic here.
I am deeply disturbed at the un healthy relation the U.S. is willing to partake for Israel, a relation that spawned deep anti American hatred the world over and threatens our security, and may even bring us into a regional nuclear conflict at this pace.
For the sake of my nation's security I don't see why we do little but slap Israel on the wrists at any major human rights violations, or ignore the Palestine issue so blatantly.
We have our differences, I know, we may have different ideas, let leave that out for a moement.
But on this one topic, I agree, you and I share the same logic here.
I am deeply disturbed at the un healthy relation the U.S. is willing to partake for Israel, a relation that spawned deep anti American hatred the world over and threatens our security, and may even bring us into a regional nuclear conflict at this pace.
For the sake of my nation's security I don't see why we do little but slap Israel on the wrists at any major human rights violations, or ignore the Palestine issue so blatantly.
It appears that you have grasped the most basic and probably the most important fact of this debate. So long as the US is so undeniably biased and pro Israel, the world will continue to spiral down into the depths of Global Islamic Terrorism.
Just think of the ways it has already affected your life, and that of virtually every man woman and child in the free world, particularly among those countries that support this huge miscarriage of justice,.... not to mention the economic and more importantly, human cost. Just do a quick mental tally, and try to imagine how this has affected tens of thousands of your own citizens who have suffer the loss and maiming of family members, and how the money that has been wasted could have been used to improve the lives of US taxpayers.
Zionists would have us all believe that they have a right to a "homeland", there is no logic or precedent to support this in modern times, and even less to support it in the land that has been occupied by others for millennia. The closest thing would be the Nazi push for Lebensraum, and we all know how that ended.
As for the ways that Israel manipulates others, just watch this,... and note that many of the commentators are Jews. Watch and learn how they seek to silence legitimate criticism by attempting to blur the lines between Judaism and Zionism.
Manipulation of the World's Media
One of the most telling things in this debate is the huge numbers of private Jews and Jewish organisations who are willing to stand up and be counted in defence of the Palestians. I doubt that anything similar can be said for Palestinians or Muslims who argue in favour of Israel, with perhaps the noted exception of a few Palestinians who live in Israel, and we all know why they do this,... They don't want to be evicted from their properties.
Of course he can go anywhere he likes, including Palestine,.......... provided he has a current visa issued in the name of that country, the same as anyone else. There's a vast difference between "going", and "invading".
Your utter stupidity seems to be peaking, have you been practicing elsewhere?
That's what happenend. They came to the Ottoman Empire and settled in the region of Palestine. It was a legal immigration. After the abolition of that country the region of Palestine was ruled by the British with an international mandate. They decided that all citizens living in that region became Palestinians. Then the international community agreed to split up te former Ottoman Empire. Many new countries were found. One of them was Israel (the Arab Palestinians refused theirs) and all citizens within the borders of Israel became Israelis.
These are all facts, and it is not because you don't like it that they are invalid.
The abolition of Israel will solve nothing. On the contrary, islamic terrorists will feel emboldened by "their" victory over Israel and the US. They will start to stir trouble in the other countries that once were part of muslim countries. Spain, Balkans.
People who still believe that terrorism is because of Israel don't know nothing about the history of Islam. They are waging war for 1400 years now and you are claiming it is because of Israel? Terrorism will stop after they accomplish their global Islamic Caliphate.
Off course you can pretend it is about Israel and the Palestinians and ignore all the facts.
Yeah,... we know how "legal" it was. It was because of the Brits trying to prevent these illegal immigrants that Jewish terrorists bombed the King David Hotel killing 91 people.
It would appear that your "facts" leave a lot to be desired, or are you like other Zionists merely alluding to "Zionist facts" (Lies), which bear no resemblance to those of the rest of the world.
In case you are not aware, it contravenes forum rules to post two or more posts in succession.
For the sake of my nation's security I don't see why we do little but slap Israel on the wrists at any major human rights violations, or ignore the Palestine issue so blatantly.
before the 6 day war, they actualy opposed israel on a number of matters, but when the US saw how quickly the Israelis beat the crap out of their enimies, the US was prepared to publicly support israel. but i agree with you. the US government is turning too much of a blind eye.
before the 6 day war, they actualy opposed israel on a number of matters, but when the US saw how quickly the Israelis beat the crap out of their enimies, the US was prepared to publicly support israel. but i agree with you. the US government is turning too much of a blind eye.
This might put your "how quickly the Israelis beat the crap out of their enemies" quote into it's true perspective.
The Real Cost Of US Support for Israel said:
When Israel was losing the war, President Richard Nixon stepped in to supply the Jewish state with U.S. weapons. Nixon's intervention triggered the Arab oil embargo which Stauffer estimates cost the U.S. as much as $600 billion in lost GDP and another $450 billion in higher oil import costs. Source: http://www.rense.com/general41/trill.htm
In actual fact, much of the reported US "opposition" to Israel's criminal behaviour is a complete sham, and no more than paying lip service to appease world opinion and misinform their own citizens who are ultimately paying for all of this, both with their money and the cream of their young men and women. Since 9/11/2001 there have been 6280 killed and 41,936 maimed and wounded, this does not include the 2,977 killed in the 9/11 attack.
Yeah,... we know how "legal" it was. It was because of the Brits trying to prevent these illegal immigrants that Jewish terrorists bombed the King David Hotel killing 91 people.
It would appear that your "facts" leave a lot to be desired, or are you like other Zionists merely alluding to "Zionist facts" (Lies), which bear no resemblance to those of the rest of the world.
You truly are a professional in twisting the facts, aren't you? The bombing of the King David hotel was not about the British stopping the legal immigration but was a retaliation of the British invasion of the Jewish Agency on June 29, 1946 and the confiscation of documents plus the arrest of 2.500 Jews all over Palestine.
What you also forget to mention is that the British ignored the phone calls to warn them about an explosion. The British first denied and later backtracked.
Emile Kary had told Mathilde about the bomb warning when he turned over the switchboard. She wanted to be certain that this important message was properly transmitted. She left the switchboard to deliver it to one of the managers in person.
She found Soutter in the lobby.
This might put your "how quickly the Israelis beat the crap out of their enemies" quote into it's true perspective.
In actual fact, much of the reported US "opposition" to Israel's criminal behaviour is a complete sham, and no more than paying lip service to appease world opinion and misinform their own citizens who are ultimately paying for all of this, both with their money and the cream of their young men and women. Since 9/11/2001 there have been 6280 killed and 41,936 maimed and wounded, this does not include the 2,977 killed in the 9/11 attack.
So you are saying that a worldwide Jewish population of 13,4 million dominates a country of 313 million (USA) and holds in check a muslim population of 1,6 billion?
If you are able to do that then the US is not the superpower but Israel is.
it is my personal opinion that the hijackers attacked the trade towers simply because they were the most obivious things on the new york skyline, and because of the physcological shock that it would give US citizens and for other reasons, but i do not think that it is mainly because of the US support for Israel. if that were the case, why not bomb the US embassy in Tel Aviv
it is my personal opinion that the hijackers attacked the trade towers simply because they were the most obivious things on the new york skyline, and because of the physcological shock that it would give US citizens and for other reasons, but i do not think that it is mainly because of the US support for Israel. if that were the case, why not bomb the US embassy in Tel Aviv
Simple,... you really don't think about these things at all, do you?... because it would not have anything like the same effect. A maybe 50 persons killed against 3000, plus the fact that the buildings were a US icon, (the tallest office blocks in the world) and the attack was done on US home soil to clearly demonstrate to the citizens that just because they are thousands of miles from the source of the trouble, they are not safe.
So why do you think that Islamic terrorists hate the US, do you think that maybe they bought a bad Big Mac, in Riyadh? Why is it that it is almost unheard of for there to be a significant terrorist attack in countries that neither support the US nor Israel?
if you had read my post, you would know that i stated physcological and the buildings significence played a major part on them being picked as targets for the planes. it isnt clear weather or not US symphathies for Israel to be a direct reason for the attack. if you`re angry at your enemy for a reason, you should probably tell you enemy what your angry at him for, so he can change. i mean, its not like they painted "FOR THE LIBERATION OF PALESTINE" of the side of the planes.
the US being the worlds greatest superpower clearly had nothing to do with it.
also, there has never been the country of Palestine. there was a proposel for a country (being Paletine) to be created alongside Israel, but the Arab states opposed it because it called for the reconision of Israel about to be a country.
if you had read my post, you would know that i stated physcological and the buildings significence played a major part on them being picked as targets for the planes. it isnt clear weather or not US symphathies for Israel to be a direct reason for the attack. if you`re angry at your enemy for a reason, you should probably tell you enemy what your angry at him for, so he can change. i mean, its not like they painted "FOR THE LIBERATION OF PALESTINE" of the side of the planes.
Are you off your medication again? They didn't have anything else painted on the sides of the aircraft either. Other than the fact that your comment is absolutely stupid and totally without any bearing on the debate, if you knew the first thing about the origins of today's Global Islamic terrorism you'd you'd know it was not necessary. You deny what I say, but offer no reason why or a credible alternative cause.
Today's Global Islamic Terrorism as we know it, really started in the 1960s with groups like Black September and the PLO who for some reason just happened to be Palestinian, and these were the groups that fanned the fires of fundamentalist Islam, claiming that Palestine was obviously too small too resist the US and her allies therefore they must come together as a Muslim brotherhood, their raison d'etre all centres on the Israeli occupation of Palestine.
also, there has never been the country of Palestine. there was a proposel for a country (being Paletine) to be created alongside Israel, but the Arab states opposed it because it called for the reconision of Israel about to be a country.
But there has been an area known as Palestine, you know, and I know that the area has been referred to as Palestine since the time of the Romans, not that it has any bearing on the debate. So why do you keep tossing in all these Red Herrings?
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I am not saying this to be nasty or sarcastic, but find it impossible to understand how a person who can't spell every day words, and/or is too lazy to use the spell check provided, can have read and gained any understanding the basics of any subject, the causes of which occurred 40 or more years before he was born.
Citing the attack as a reason for US support of Israel makes no sence. The Twin Towers were the hallmark of worldwide capitalism. People from all over the world, (more than 90 countries) and all kinds of religions worked there.
Global Terrorism
Global Islamic terrorism as we know it today has nothing to do with Israel but with the expansion of Islam and the expulsion of non-islamist rulers and boots on muslim ground.
You don't kill innocent muslims on a marketplace in Kabul or Bagdad because of Israel.
You don't kill Nigerian Christians in a church because of Israel.
You don't kill Australian tourists in Bali because of Israel.
Islamic terrorism started in the 7th century with the founding of Islam.
Black September was founded in 1970 because the Palestinians were thrown out of Jordan they first fought against Jordan later against Israel.
The Moslim Brotherhood was founded in 1928 by Hassan al-Banna in Egypt.
In the region of Palestine Jews called themselves Palestinians and the Arabs Syrians. Jews living in Russia were called Palestinians. Take a telephone book from the West Bank and look at the names of Arab Palestinians, they refer to where they came from.
People hate Israel because they believe the propaganda. Arabs in Israel have a much better life than Jews in Arab countries. There are more Arabs living in Israel than Jews in the entire Arab world.
i said that there was never a COUNTRY called Palestine, but i admit that the area is known as Palestine. IF the UN crave up of the area had been accepted by the arab states, then there would be a country called Palestine. but they didn`t, so there isn`t.
