So why do people hate Israel? - Page 36




 
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January 21st, 2012  
RayManKiller3
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghostrider
But you cannot compare WWII with Israel, sorry. What can we compare WWII, Nothing!!!! Not even WWI, we need a WWIII to make a comparison like that.

I wasn't comparing, just referencing. Showing that the country that wins is usually what decides get written down in history. I was saying this as a way to say that Israel, like it or not Monty, is here to stay and they are no longer "terrorist" by definition. Palestine lost the war once they refused the borders the U.N gave them.


You (Seno) seem to think that it is dependent on the reason someone does something that justify the means; justifying terrorism in its definition that most agree with. Palestinians who attacked Israeli civillians are terrorists, like it or not.
January 21st, 2012  
I3BrigPvSk
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RayManKiller3
No, I don't think majority of the world (including Arabics) hate Israel, as in the people of Israel. I believe they are very critical of it though, just like how other countries are very critical of U.S (but do not hate it).

I believe Palestine should get their 1967 borders, that is recognized, but demilitarized (for obvious reasons). Israel would not dare to attack Palestine unprovoked when it is demilitarized and recognized by the entire, or at least the most of the U.N.

The only way for this to happen though is if Palestine denounces violence and open up to talks. If Israel decides to douche it out, then they will be pressed into it. U.S is not going to press Israel over Palestine and rightfully so (imo). Palestine done some stupid stuff (terrorism mainly) which is frowned upon by many U.S citizens, so why should U.S back Palestine over Israel?

Sure Israel does stuff as well that we don't like, but so do many other countries, you don't see us invading every single country that do not comply with our way of thinking (excluding Cold War).
Hate is a very strong word, and it has been wrongly used many times. Are you favor of a two state solution? This historical crap going on here on this thread does not lead anywhere. Arguing about who did what and why 60
years ago?? This is not directed to you, Ray. Live in the present, not the past! We have situation between the Israelis and the Palestinians, they are not interested in historical discussions, believe me! They have a problem. How do you want to solve the problem?
January 21st, 2012  
senojekips
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RayManKiller3
I wasn't comparing, just referencing. Showing that the country that wins is usually what decides get written down in history. I was saying this as a way to say that Israel, like it or not Monty, is here to stay and they are no longer "terrorist" by definition. Palestine lost the war once they refused the borders the U.N gave them.


You (Seno) seem to think that it is dependent on the reason someone does something that justify the means; justifying terrorism in its definition that most agree with. Palestinians who attacked Israeli civillians are terrorists, like it or not.
I am not justifying terrorism per se, but I am justifying self defence by any means, you only call it terrorism because it suits your rather poor argument. As has been pointed out here before, the French Marquis and any number of other resistance groups, did as bad, if not worse and were never accused of terrorism other than perhaps by the Nazis, such is the case here.

And you are wrong, Israel's actions are still terrorism and always will be as Israel has absolutely no legal no moral right to be in Palestine in the first place. Tell me where in the UN charter it gives them the right to just give away the country of another people to a third party?
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January 21st, 2012  
zhaldev
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghostrider
Hate is a very strong word, and it has been wrongly used many times. Are you favor of a two state solution? This historical crap going on here on this thread does not lead anywhere. Arguing about who did what and why 60
years ago?? This is not directed to you, Ray. Live in the present, not the past! We have situation between the Israelis and the Palestinians, they are not interested in historical discussions, believe me! They have a problem. How do you want to solve the problem?
Rightly said hate is indeed strong word.you cannot simply hate anybody unless you are involved in it directly or indirectly. like i said before co existence is the solution to this problem but only both the parties should be ready to make some sacrifices,which they are making anyway but in the extreme way.
January 21st, 2012  
VDKMS
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by senojekips
No they were not the government, they were the mandated administrators empowered under the League of Nations, and they never "gave it away", nor had the right to do so anyway, neither did the League of Nations. They were essentially powerless in such matters, even moreso than today's UN.
Government refers to the legislators, administrators, and arbitrators in the administrative bureaucracy who control a state at a given time, and to the system of government by which they are organized.
So yes, the Mandate for Palestine served as the government.

Quote:
The Brits withdrew from Palestine, as the British public were not willing to suffer the continued losses of the Zionist terror groups, and would not support a new war against the Zionists, whilst still getting over the losses of WWII.
The British withdrew from Palestine and India in 1948 because of the costs. Britain was virtualy bankrupt after WWII and were only saved by a $3.5 billion loan from the United States.
Britain announced in 1947 that it would withdraw in 1948 and leave the matter to the United Nations to solve. The General Assembly voted for a plan to partition Palestine into a Jewish and an Arab state.
The British were attacked by the Zionists AND the Palestinians. Izzedin Al Qassam preached Jihad against the British from Haifa. In the autumn of 1937, Hajj Amin El Hussein was forced to flee Palestine, as he was implicated in the murder of the British Commissioner for the Northern District. In 1938 Arab guerillas sabotaged the TAP oil pipe.
January 21st, 2012  
VDKMS
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MontyB
Show me Prussia on a modern map.
Oh now I remember it was abolished in 1947 the moral of that story is nothing is set in stone, anything created can be destroyed.
Yes, and born out of that were 2 Germanies. East and West who joined in 1990 and some wanted it to be called ... Prussia. This former Prussia is now the fourth largest by nominal GDP in the world !

Quote:
I would suggest you are well off the mark as Palestinians do not want a state as much as they want their land back, as for what their "Islamic" brothers can and cant do get back to me in a couple of years now that Egypt isn't being run by a guy getting back handers to play the western game and Turkey is seeing its relationship with Israel deteriorating rapidly and I would rate both of those military's capable of defeating Israel at this point.
The Egyptian Islamists vowed to keep the peace accord with Israel. Israel is strengthening it's ties with Ethiopia which is building a huge dam on the Nile that will decrease water volume through Sudan and Egypt. If Egypt starts to become more fundamentalistic it's income from tourism will fall dramatically and the $ from the US will dry up. They will be in trouble within the shortest period of time.
Turkey (Erdogan) dreams of the lost powers of the Ottoman Empire. If they attack Israel that would be the end of Turkish Nato membership. That will also make them vulnerable to pressure from their longtime enemy Russian.
Erdogan is to smart to do such foolish things. Fanatical Islamists do foolish things, none of their countries lives in prosperity.

Quote:
Part of your problem is that you are assuming that the US will maintain its station economically so you are correct it would take 50 years for it to be overtaken however given that your debt is becoming unsustainable it is more likely you will regress thus reducing the 50 years until you sink below that of other nations.
You underestimate the economic power of the USA. If they tax their people like European countries do they are out of debt within a couple of years. The US has also huge corporate assets. Take a close look at Japan and you will understand what I am saying.
January 21st, 2012  
VDKMS
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by senojekips
The answer is, No!,... we did not, and the reason we didn't ask that question is because one side was clearly the aggressor who invaded the lands of others, as is the case in Palestine where a people have been forced of their land by an aggressive invader.
They were not invaders but immigrants who got the same citizenship as the people who lived their.
They were forced from their land by war which the Arabs started. Some stayed, some fled and returned and others fled and never returned.
January 21st, 2012  
VDKMS
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghostrider
Hate is a very strong word, and it has been wrongly used many times. Are you favor of a two state solution? This historical crap going on here on this thread does not lead anywhere. Arguing about who did what and why 60
years ago?? This is not directed to you, Ray. Live in the present, not the past! We have situation between the Israelis and the Palestinians, they are not interested in historical discussions, believe me! They have a problem. How do you want to solve the problem?
Problem is that the ones who want the destruction of Israel (Hamas and other fundamentalists) do live in the past. They do not want Palestinian land back (there never has been) but muslim land. The region Palestine became muslim land after the battle of Yarmouk in 636. And once muslim land always muslim land. Why do you think the muslim fundamentalists want Kashmir back?
January 21st, 2012  
VDKMS
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by senojekips
And you are wrong, Israel's actions are still terrorism and always will be as Israel has absolutely no legal no moral right to be in Palestine in the first place. Tell me where in the UN charter it gives them the right to just give away the country of another people to a third party?
They didn't give away a country from other people. Their former country, the Ottoman Empire, ceased to exist in 1923. Many new countries were created after WWI. Only Israel was created by the powers of the League of Nations. many others were created just by France and Britain ( a.o. Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Egypt, Iraq, Saudi Arabia )
January 21st, 2012  
I3BrigPvSk
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RayManKiller3
I wasn't comparing, just referencing. Showing that the country that wins is usually what decides get written down in history. I was saying this as a way to say that Israel, like it or not Monty, is here to stay and they are no longer "terrorist" by definition. Palestine lost the war once they refused the borders the U.N gave them.



You (Seno) seem to think that it is dependent on the reason someone does something that justify the means; justifying terrorism in its definition that most agree with. Palestinians who attacked Israeli civillians are terrorists, like it or not.
I said it to Seno, not to you, Ray. WWII was very unique, and with any comparison or even a reference to it is complicated, because what we do if we do so is to take WWII out from context prior WWII, which is way different than Israel and the problems there
 


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