So why do people hate Israel? - Page 35




 
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January 20th, 2012  
RayManKiller3
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MontyB
So you are saying terrorism is a legitimate means to an end?

Do you guys actually think about your posts or are you using www.suckuptoisrael.com/repetitiousidioticresponsestoallquestions.html?
Nope, I fully disagree with terrorism no matter the reason of those who are doing it. The thing is, they let terrorism win, they (Palestine and the U.N) lost that "war" and we should focus on the present instead of the past to find solutions now. That is my point.


Quote:

Now here is the nifty thing I don't care that the UN decided to give Jews a state hell for all I care they can give everyone there own state what I care about is that they gave someone else's land away to make that state and then expected them to sit back and live with it.

But no Britain had a chunk of dirt they didn't want and even though they had already offered it to the Arabs they figured there was more in it for them to give it to the Jews now here we are 70 years later trying to figure out how to fix this mess.
Yes, they gave away land that they had no real right to except the fact they governed it... Just like VDKMS said, it is the government (the leaders) that make the decisions and the rest obey it whether they like it or not. It don't have to be ethical to be legal.

We can get lost in the legality of the situation and it is off-topic anyways.
January 20th, 2012  
senojekips
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RayManKiller3
Yes, they gave away land that they had no real right to except the fact they governed it...
No they were not the government, they were the mandated administrators empowered under the League of Nations, and they never "gave it away", nor had the right to do so anyway, neither did the League of Nations. They were essentially powerless in such matters, even moreso than today's UN.

The Brits withdrew from Palestine, as the British public were not willing to suffer the continued losses of the Zionist terror groups, and would not support a new war against the Zionists, whilst still getting over the losses of WWII.
January 20th, 2012  
MontyB
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RayManKiller3
Nope, I fully disagree with terrorism no matter the reason of those who are doing it. The thing is, they let terrorism win, they (Palestine and the U.N) lost that "war" and we should focus on the present instead of the past to find solutions now. That is my point.
On the contrary the Palestinians haven't lost the war because they are still fighting it, however my argument remains as support for Israel is support for terrorism essentially your argument is that when terrorists become recognised they are no longer terrorists.

What neither you nor VD seem willing to face is that the Palestinians are for the most part native inhabitants and occupiers of the land and they have been forced off the majority of that land by a bunch of Europen boat people (they are not refugees because the majority moved after the war therefore there was no threat any longer) through the use of violence, manipulation, racism and threat and you believe that it is the Palestinians that should negotiate?

So by all means you guys can dance around the truth with maps of Turkey and meaningless double talk about not supporting terrorism unless they win then its fine but the fact is that time is not on Isreals side surrounded by someting like 150 million muslims living in wealthy countries some of which are becoming nuclear capable, others with NATO backing and only the support of a waning near bankrupt super power to rescue them.
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January 20th, 2012  
RayManKiller3
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MontyB
On the contrary the Palestinians haven't lost the war because they are still fighting it, however my argument remains as support for Israel is support for terrorism essentially your argument is that when terrorists become recognised they are no longer terrorists.

When I said lost I was talking about Israel is in fact created, which is what the early terrorist wanted. They can try fighting now, but if they want to win support of todays people then they need to fight be todays rules. No country in the west will condone terrorism.

Your obviously trying to slip words in my mouth with that last sentence.
Tell me if the Germans won right now and held the countries firmly even till now, how will people view them?

As we all know the victors dictate who was right and wrong in history (most of the time).

Quote:
What neither you nor VD seem willing to face is that the Palestinians are for the most part native inhabitants and occupiers of the land and they have been forced off the majority of that land by a bunch of Europen boat people (they are not refugees because the majority moved after the war therefore there was no threat any longer) through the use of violence, manipulation, racism and threat and you believe that it is the Palestinians that should negotiate?
I am saying that if they want their state, the best way would be to get support by those with the power to do it... Obviously their Islamic brothers are not within the power to do this. All they have done thus far is piss off westerners (whom are the ones that can help them).

Terrorism will not get their state, as Israel is not the Brits post WW2. All it does is piss people off, that is it.

Quote:
So by all means you guys can dance around the truth with maps of Turkey and meaningless double talk about not supporting terrorism unless they win then its fine but the fact is that time is not on Isreals side surrounded by someting like 150 million muslims living in wealthy countries some of which are becoming nuclear capable, others with NATO backing and only the support of a waning near bankrupt super power to rescue them.
I know you didnt just call the muslim nations "wealthy"... The only thing that makes the wealth for them is the ground they stand on and once countries wise up (which U.S is finally doing), by making more re-newable energy investments, they will find oil helps little for them. For Pete's sake, the oil is the only reason western nations even gives a crap about it.


It will take at least half a century for another nation to overdue U.S. China is the closest and even if they sustained this growth many analyst believe it to be at least 50 years to even pass (if not catch up) to U.S. For example, Russia is a shell of what is used to be, but yet a lot of people fear and know how powerful it is. (granted its mainly because of their nuke stockpile XD)

Do you think Israel will be weak in 50 years?

I believe more people support Israel than Hamas, which is what a good deal of people think of when they talk about Palestine.
January 20th, 2012  
MontyB
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RayManKiller3
When I said lost I was talking about Israel is in fact created, which is what the early terrorist wanted. They can try fighting now, but if they want to win support of todays people then they need to fight be todays rules. No country in the west will condone terrorism.
Show me Prussia on a modern map.
Oh now I remember it was abolished in 1947 the moral of that story is nothing is set in stone, anything created can be destroyed.

Quote:
Your obviously trying to slip words in my mouth with that last sentence.
Tell me if the Germans won right now and held the countries firmly even till now, how will people view them?
View who?
Germans?
My guess is that they would be viewed as occupiers and given the resistance movements sorry I mean terrorists sprang up almost immediately I imagine there would be a lot of terrorist I mean resistance activity going on.

Quote:
As we all know the victors dictate who was right and wrong in history (most of the time).
No the victors write the history they do not dictate right from wrong.

Quote:
I am saying that if they want their state, the best way would be to get support by those with the power to do it... Obviously their Islamic brothers are not within the power to do this. All they have done thus far is piss off westerners (whom are the ones that can help them).
I would suggest you are well off the mark as Palestinians do not want a state as much as they want their land back, as for what their "Islamic" brothers can and cant do get back to me in a couple of years now that Egypt isn't being run by a guy getting back handers to play the western game and Turkey is seeing its relationship with Israel deteriorating rapidly and I would rate both of those military's capable of defeating Israel at this point.

Quote:
Terrorism will not get their state, as Israel is not the Brits post WW2. All it does is piss people off, that is it.
You are right Israel does not have anywhere near the resources available to it that Britain had and the technology that was available to Jewish terrorists is nothing like what is becoming available to the modern terrorist.

Quote:
I know you didnt just call the muslim nations "wealthy"... The only thing that makes the wealth for them is the ground they stand on and once countries wise up (which U.S is finally doing), by making more re-newable energy investments, they will find oil helps little for them. For Pete's sake, the oil is the only reason western nations even gives a crap about it.


It will take at least half a century for another nation to overdue U.S. China is the closest and even if they sustained this growth many analyst believe it to be at least 50 years to even pass (if not catch up) to U.S. For example, Russia is a shell of what is used to be, but yet a lot of people fear and know how powerful it is. (granted its mainly because of their nuke stockpile XD)
Part of your problem is that you are assuming that the US will maintain its station economically so you are correct it would take 50 years for it to be overtaken however given that your debt is becoming unsustainable it is more likely you will regress thus reducing the 50 years until you sink below that of other nations.

Quote:
Do you think Israel will be weak in 50 years?
I have no idea but it wouldn't surprise me if Israel was a smouldering hole in the ground 50 years from now, I can't predict the future though and for all I know the world could be a smouldering ruin by tomorrow morning with some of the idiots we have running the nations of this world.

However it seems even Israel is divided and you know what they say about a house divided..

http://old.news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20120...settler_s_view
January 20th, 2012  
RayManKiller3
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MontyB
You are right Israel does not have anywhere near the resources available to it that Britain had and the technology that was available to Jewish terrorists is nothing like what is becoming available to the modern terrorist.

Lol, I loved the rest of your response. When I said Israel is not post WW2 Britain I meant that Israel can't just retreat as the Brits was able to.

I do not think U.S will maintain its stability, I just don't think it will rapidly fall anymore.

Well, there is no idea how the world would be if Germany had won. I do not think terrorism would have worked to fight Germany off, as they were ruthless.
January 20th, 2012  
I3BrigPvSk
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RayManKiller3
Lol, I loved the rest of your response. When I said Israel is not post WW2 Britain I meant that Israel can't just retreat as the Brits was able to.

I do not think U.S will maintain its stability, I just don't think it will rapidly fall anymore.

Well, there is no idea how the world would be if Germany had won. I do not think terrorism would have worked to fight Germany off, as they were ruthless.
Hi RayManKiller,

I raise questions about all references to the Second World War, which was a unique event. We have the state of Israel and we have the Palestinians, what do you think should be the solution to the conflict? Do you think people outside Israel really hate Israel? I have met a lot of people from the Arabic world, even Palestinians, they do not hate Israel, they dislike the Government of Israel sometimes, but they do not hate the Israelis
January 21st, 2012  
senojekips
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghostrider
No, its not a valid comparison. You cannot compare with the WWII, you need to learn to compare. I can compare, you cannot
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghostrider
I raise questions about all references to the Second World War, which was a unique event.
This is where your argument becomes somewhat delusional.

OK,...every event is "unique", including all wars, but that does not mean that the wars and events that occurred within them cannot be compared, as there are many things that are not "unique" such as most wars have an aggressor and a victim, they all have a winner and a loser (to a degree).

In the case I made when I posed the question:
Quote:
Originally Posted by senojekips
Did we ask how can we reach a peace that satisfies both the Germans and the Allies in 1939?
The answer is, No!,... we did not, and the reason we didn't ask that question is because one side was clearly the aggressor who invaded the lands of others, as is the case in Palestine where a people have been forced of their land by an aggressive invader.
January 21st, 2012  
I3BrigPvSk
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by senojekips
This is where your argument becomes somewhat delusional.

OK,...every event is "unique", including all wars, but that does not mean that the wars and events that occurred within them cannot be compared, as there are many things that are not "unique" such as most wars have an aggressor and a victim, they all have a winner and a loser (to a degree).

In the case I made when I posed the question:

The answer is, No!,... we did not, and the reason we didn't ask that question is because one side was clearly the aggressor who invaded the lands of others, as is the case in Palestine where a people have been forced of their land by an aggressive invader.
But you cannot compare WWII with Israel, sorry. What can we compare WWII, Nothing!!!! Not even WWI, we need a WWIII to make a comparison like that.
January 21st, 2012  
RayManKiller3
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghostrider
Hi RayManKiller,

I raise questions about all references to the Second World War, which was a unique event. We have the state of Israel and we have the Palestinians, what do you think should be the solution to the conflict? Do you think people outside Israel really hate Israel? I have met a lot of people from the Arabic world, even Palestinians, they do not hate Israel, they dislike the Government of Israel sometimes, but they do not hate the Israelis
No, I don't think majority of the world (including Arabics) hate Israel, as in the people of Israel. I believe they are very critical of it though, just like how other countries are very critical of U.S, but do not hate it.

I believe Palestine should get their 1967 borders, that is recognized, but demilitarized (for obvious reasons). Israel would not dare to attack Palestine unprovoked when it is demilitarized and recognized by the entire, or at least the most of the U.N.

The only way for this to happen though is if Palestine denounces violence and open up to talks. If Israel decides to douche it out, then they will be pressed into it. U.S is not going to press Israel over Palestine and rightfully so (imo). Palestine done some stupid stuff (terrorism mainly) which is frowned upon by many U.S citizens, so why should U.S back Palestine over Israel?

Sure Israel does stuff as well that we don't like, but so do many other countries, you don't see us invading every single country that do not comply with our way of thinking (excluding Cold War).
 


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