Yossarian
Forum Resistance Leader
As long as there are two human beings on this planet this cannot happen, our very nature is to turn to conflict to achieve our goals and assert our will over others.
So why do people hate Israel?
As long as there are two human beings on this planet this cannot happen, our very nature is to turn to conflict to achieve our goals and assert our will over others.
r.fox
Active member
i am well aware that it has started was, but i meant that is that talking like that will also make things worse which i am sure that you realise.
senojekips
Active member
Make it worse,... you've got to be kidding?
Well obviously you haven't taken the time to note what effect 60 years of diplomacy and world opinion have had on Israeli policy. They say that they're sorry, then escalate their policies, stealing more and more land and repressing the Palestinians even further. There comes a time with all things when diplomacy and good manners are of no further use.
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I don’t know why some people talk about Israel in this way when the fact is clear like the light of sun in the noon in the desert in the summer.
The Israelis are not belong to this region because you can’t find any common things between their culture and the ME culture and it can be a good reason to prove that they don’t have any root here.
Some people were living in Palestine 2000 years ago and some of them were straggler by some other people. I don’t know what percent of them left their land and what percent of them changed their religion. And now some people claim that those people who left the Palestine 2000 years ago are their ancestors so they want to come back to their land again!!!
Azerbaijan was separated from Iran and was jointed to Russia as per Turkamanchay treaty 150 years ago. As per this treaty the Azerbaijan should have been rejoin to Iran 2 years ago. So could we claim about Azerbaijan? I can bring thousands more examples which are much more logical than Israeli’s claim. What would happen if the world people thought like Israelis?
[FONT="]The European did crime about Jews as they say but why they are wreaking from Palestinian instead of European?[/FONT]
The Israelis are not belong to this region because you can’t find any common things between their culture and the ME culture and it can be a good reason to prove that they don’t have any root here.
Some people were living in Palestine 2000 years ago and some of them were straggler by some other people. I don’t know what percent of them left their land and what percent of them changed their religion. And now some people claim that those people who left the Palestine 2000 years ago are their ancestors so they want to come back to their land again!!!
Azerbaijan was separated from Iran and was jointed to Russia as per Turkamanchay treaty 150 years ago. As per this treaty the Azerbaijan should have been rejoin to Iran 2 years ago. So could we claim about Azerbaijan? I can bring thousands more examples which are much more logical than Israeli’s claim. What would happen if the world people thought like Israelis?
[FONT="]The European did crime about Jews as they say but why they are wreaking from Palestinian instead of European?[/FONT]
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The Israelis do have legal jurisdiction in that matter (accords of Oslo) so everyone must get a permit to build them. It is not because someone is Palestinian or a member of a "humanitarian" organisation that they don't have to abide by the law.
sadly but true.
Make it worse,... you've got to be kidding?
Well obviously you haven't taken the time to note what effect 60 years of diplomacy and world opinion have had on Israeli policy. They say that they're sorry, then escalate their policies, stealing more and more land and repressing the Palestinians even further. There comes a time with all things when diplomacy and good manners are of no further use.
I have another map:
The Jews were promised much more than they got. But they took it.
The Palestinians were promised nothing and they refused what was given to them and now they want it back.
Do not forget that the Jews asked for a new country and the Palestinians didn't.
All new countries were founded without consulting the local population.
Someone here once made a comparison between the Aboriginals in Australia and the Palestinians in the ME. It was quickly proved to be untrue. But on the other hand the situation can be the same if some people get enough followers. In fact, this situation can be applied to Indians in the Americas and if we go back far enough in history almost to every country.
To make it easier to understand I will call the Palestinians/Aboriginals/Indians the "locals" and the Israelis/Australians/Americans "invaders". Just substitute the locals/invaders with a nationality of your choice.
Let's assume that a fanatical local group is founded and their covenant comprises the taking back of stolen land and the expulsion of the invaders.
They start by exploding some bombs in marketplaces in cities of the invaders close to local territory. Lots of casualties and some dead. Almost every week bombs explode. The police is not able to stop the attacks. The people are terrified and demand protection. The government of the invaders have no other choice than to send in the army. They quickly set up checkpoints on roads in local territory leading to the cities of the invaders. At last the bombing stops. The fanatic locals get caught at the checkpoints so they switch to rocket attacks. Their rockets are very primitive and higly inaccurate but inflict damage to the houses of invaders, who get terrified because more and more rockets are fired. Some supporters of the locals call the rockets fireworks, which enrages people who lost dear ones to those attacks. They demand the government to take action because life is getting unbearable in cities under attack. The government sends in the Air Force to attack command structures and ammunition depots. But the targets are within civilian compounds and there is a lot of collateral damage. The international community, above all left wing "humanitarian" organisations, are appalled. Countries friendly to the locals demand action from the UN and UN resolutions are voted but are not enforcable. The government of the invaders is caught between the UN resolutions and the citizens demands for protection. At last they side with their voters and orders the army to occupy the local territory to end the attacks once and for all. This situation then will last until the fanatic locals stop their attacks and sign a peace deal.
To make it easier to understand I will call the Palestinians/Aboriginals/Indians the "locals" and the Israelis/Australians/Americans "invaders". Just substitute the locals/invaders with a nationality of your choice.
Let's assume that a fanatical local group is founded and their covenant comprises the taking back of stolen land and the expulsion of the invaders.
They start by exploding some bombs in marketplaces in cities of the invaders close to local territory. Lots of casualties and some dead. Almost every week bombs explode. The police is not able to stop the attacks. The people are terrified and demand protection. The government of the invaders have no other choice than to send in the army. They quickly set up checkpoints on roads in local territory leading to the cities of the invaders. At last the bombing stops. The fanatic locals get caught at the checkpoints so they switch to rocket attacks. Their rockets are very primitive and higly inaccurate but inflict damage to the houses of invaders, who get terrified because more and more rockets are fired. Some supporters of the locals call the rockets fireworks, which enrages people who lost dear ones to those attacks. They demand the government to take action because life is getting unbearable in cities under attack. The government sends in the Air Force to attack command structures and ammunition depots. But the targets are within civilian compounds and there is a lot of collateral damage. The international community, above all left wing "humanitarian" organisations, are appalled. Countries friendly to the locals demand action from the UN and UN resolutions are voted but are not enforcable. The government of the invaders is caught between the UN resolutions and the citizens demands for protection. At last they side with their voters and orders the army to occupy the local territory to end the attacks once and for all. This situation then will last until the fanatic locals stop their attacks and sign a peace deal.
senojekips
Active member
Yes, of course they did. They grabbed it with both hands, because even they knew that they had no legal or moral right to any part of it. It it was a gift, something for nothing, made by persons who had no right to give it.
Israel only came about as a knee jerk reaction to offset the guilt of the Allies for not doing more to prevent the Holocaust.
LOL.... what's this drivel, page one of Zionism for Dummies?
Oh, and nowhere was the comparison proved untrue, all you did was deny the fact.
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I3BrigPvSk
The Viking
Shall we try a different approach? The maps earlier were good, the two state solution. How can we reach it? The settlers, the borders. One problem at the time
senojekips
Active member
The first problem in that case, is to start acting like adults, and admit to ourselves that there is no such thing as "a Two State Solution". The very term "Two state solution" is an oxymoron because it only provides a "solution" for one group. It is so simplistic as to be totally stupid. Then maybe we can stretch our morals to admit the fact that Israel has no legitimate place in Palestine or anywhere else where it is not wanted.
The two state solution would be akin to "solving" the problem of our expensive overcrowded prisons by simply freeing all the criminals. There's no doubt whatsoever that it would solve the initial problem,... but only for the criminals.
A true test of Israel's legitimacy would be to ask those countries who are so keen to see the Zionists have a homeland, whether they would give up part of theirs. Then, and only then, will we see the real truth as to these countries views on the legitimacy of Israel's claim.
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I3BrigPvSk
The Viking
Ok, but Israel is where it is, regardless if we like it or not. The major concern will be to guarantee the peace and security for both the Israelis and the Palestinians. Therefore, the two state solutions is the only way to go, we cannot rewind and place Israel somewhere else.
senojekips
Active member
Now,.... you have just given the perfect example of why we have a problem you deliberately ignored the first thing I said.
I suppose that I should modify that statement, as on reflection there is one possible "Two State Solution" that might work, and that is, If the State of Israel is in a land freely given by some other country.
If you think that is the case, then you are just not looking for a solution.
If you deliberately stick your head in the fire, the only way to stop the stop the pain is to pull it back out. Of course you do have one other option. You can kill every pro Palestinian in the world,... that would work. They think they can commit the biggest crime against humanity since the Holocaust, and not only not have to pay the price, but profit from it.
The trouble here is that the pro Zionists want to have their cake and eat it too, and it doesn't work, it never has, and it never will.
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RayManKiller3
Active member
I3BrigPvSk
The Viking
I am always locking for a solution; I do not intend to change the path of the history. The majority of the people responsible for the creation of Israel are not here anymore. The UN decided to establish Israel where it is today, however, what happens after that can be discussed. I truly think the two state solution is the best, going back to the defined borders between the Jewish state and the Palestinian state. One thing to work with is to make them both dependent on each other.
senojekips
Active member
If a thief should die, his booty does not become the property of whoever inherits it, it's a simple rule of law. It always remains the property of the original owner.
Again,... there is no "two state solution. The fact that we now have two states where only one should be, is the cause of the problem, not the solution.
Yossarian
Forum Resistance Leader
senojekips
Active member
No,.. they don't have to die, they just go back where they lived before occupying Palestine. Where their ancestors have lived for the last thousand plus years or more.
As I said in post #651. If anyone wants an accurate gauge of a country's true commitment to supporting Israel, we must ask if they are willing to just walk off a similar percentage of their land to make way for these parasites. Any country who is not willing to do this has no business expecting the Palestinians to do the same.
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Yossarian
Forum Resistance Leader
Unfortantly the simple ability for Israelies to pack up and go back, with so many people so embedded there isn't that feasible.
I am not attacking your opinion, or arguing it's morality. It's just who is gonna foot the bill.
I am pretty sure that not every last single Israeli has enough currency to simply move their entire family back to their ancestors country of orgin.
Unless to world steps and forces them all to leave.
But no matter how ridiculous their reason of being there is in the first place. Forcing to leave in this manner does nothing but create so many more problems then what happens?
What would you and I be discussing then? What would newslines read about tension in this region then with a mass exodus?
And heres a thought, let's say some of their countries of orgins (some of them which expelled them in the first place) deny these now Israeli refugees asylum?
Then what, are all the Israelies just going to float out at sea?
What then?
We have to seriously stop thinking just one step ahead, it would be ludicous and an injustice to Palestine to create a huge wave of pissed or even violent Israeli refugees, many of whom may very well end up stuck in their country being thrown into their mist.
And simply stating "well they shouldn't be there in the first place " does nothing to solve anything.
Sitting here and stating what has already happened until the sky falls does nothing about deciding what must be down to improve the situation here.
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The most important thing is that Israeli accept the land doesn't belong to them and it's Palestinian's land. If they accept this the other problems will be solved easily. The number of Jews in the Israel is about 5 million people. the world is large enough to find a place for them. we can find a lot of solution for this.