So why do people hate Israel? - Page 185




 
--
 
September 22nd, 2014  
tetvet
 
Will the Liberty always be an issue of debate ? my own research brings questions of what and why it took place , I don't think the U.S. tried to sweep it under the carpet , I think the U.S. was at odds of what to do about it , the U.S. had its hands full with Vietnam and didn't need any more problems .
September 22nd, 2014  
MontyB
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by VDKMS
Why do you keep telling those lies? It is beyond doubt that there was a Jewish kingdom (Samaria) 3000 years ago and it is certainly beyond any doubt that there was one 2000 years ago, Hasmonean and Herodian kingdoms of Israel, during the Roman empire. Most DNA research confirm that the Jews did in fact originate from that region but you only believe that one that that tells another story, allthough that research also admitted that the paternal DNA links the Jews to the ME.
I've given you those facts time and again, yet you only believe what you want to believe and ignore the facts.
Because there isn't one single recognised Archeologist Jewish or otherwise that can provide evidence of any of the Israeli narrative at all, most of them no longer even try.
There was no diaspora in any century, there was no exodus, Jerusalem was not built by Israelite's, and there was no Israelite conquest of Caanan there is not one shred of archeological evidence to back any of this story up.

Further more DNA indicates that most "Jews" are eastern European with no more link to the middle east than I do as a European New Zealander who's ancestors passed through the region during the great migrations out of Africa so cut the crap you are little more than Polish and Russian colonialists who have made up a grandiose fairytale to justify stealing someone elses land.


Quote:
How can you make peace with someone who wants your destruction? Read the covenant of Hamas!

A two state solution? Hell, the "Palestinians" are teaching their children that Israel doesn't even exist. The geographical map of that region only mentions "Palestine". I think that makes it very clear what the "Palestinians" want.
Weird so you genuinely don't understand why 1.8 million people crammed into an area the size of a small city who routinely have their infrastructure destroyed, their fishermen shot at and killed who are not allowed to leave the area or trade with the world and who have just had 2000 of their people including around 600 children killed by the Israeli army don't like Israel?
Are you retarded?

However lets talk about Palestinians not mentioning Israel if that is a problem for you then explain where the West Bank is on this map produced by Netanpsycho...


Quote:
After the Ottoman empire defeat it was split into several countries, just like in Europe where new nations were born. The muslim Arabs wanted it all. Those two tiny countries (Lebanon for the Christians and Israel for the Jews) was unacceptable.
Interestingly enough not one of those countries was called Israel, still if my land was full of say Kiwi's and and due to political cowardice someone gave half of it to say the Chinese in defiance of every international law on the books I would be mighty pissed especially if they then went on a rampage driving out 700,000 of my fellow Kiwis and taking every bit of land they could get their hands on, wouldn't you.

You are not fooling anyone you are nothing more than colonial parasites but keep on with the stories but most fairy stories start with "Once upon a time" yours should too.
September 22nd, 2014  
JOC
 
 
I'm not sure what's your claiming here. But Archaeological evidence of ancient Israel going back to David's time right thru to the Roman occupation has been found. Scrolls, Coins, Tablets, Buildings.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archaeology_of_Israel
I'm not making any statement about right or wrong concerning the current Israeli Palestinian conflict. But this doesn't change the fact that ancient Israel did exist.
--
September 22nd, 2014  
tetvet
 
Ancient Israel did indeed exist but from what I can see the tribes 11 of them I think there was 11 ? were pretty much nomads and were in conflict with themselves when not in conflict with others .
September 22nd, 2014  
VDKMS
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MontyB
Because there isn't one single recognised Archeologist Jewish or otherwise that can provide evidence of any of the Israeli narrative at all, most of them no longer even try.


About 1200 BC
Canaan has been plundered in every evil way, Askelon has been brought away captive, Gezer has been seized, Yenoam has been destroyed. Israel is devastated, having no seed. Syria is widowed because of Egypt. All lands, they are united in peace. Everyone who roamed, he has subdued him, By the king of Egypt Merenptah.
-Lines 26-28.
Now you give me some real archaeological evidence of your beloved "Palestinians" besides thousands of metal casings of rockets fired at Israeli civilian towns.

Quote:
There was no diaspora in any century, there was no exodus, Jerusalem was not built by Israelite's, and there was no Israelite conquest of Caanan there is not one shred of archeological evidence to back any of this story up.
Archaeological evidence of a diaspora and exodus? Do you think they were Hansel and Gretel leaving evidence everywhere so they could be traced back? The evidence is in showing up in another place. Writings of the horrors they went through. Keeping their faith and culture in another place. But you also forget the ones that stayed. Or are you saying that the Romans didn't fight the Jews? That Hadrian called Sextus Julius Severus from Britain for a sightseeing tour? Where did the Jewish communities in Allepo, Alexandria. Damascus and Smyrna, to name a few, came from? Or did Judaism just suddenly popped up al over the world at once? Those communities were descendants from people who left because they were persecuted by Babylonians and Romans.

Now, you give me evidence of "Palestians" living there at that time. Did they fought the Romans? Were they friends of the Babylonians? Did they found flourishing cities?

Quote:
Further more DNA indicates that most "Jews" are eastern European with no more link to the middle east than I do as a European New Zealander who's ancestors passed through the region during the great migrations out of Africa so cut the crap you are little more than Polish and Russian colonialists who have made up a grandiose fairytale to justify stealing someone elses land.
You keep holding on to that one study of Eran Elhaik, who attacks everyone who does not agree with him and disregard dozens of studies over twenty years from geneticists and historians around the world. You are not looking for the truth, you are just waiting for someone who says what you would like to hear.

from a Forbes article :
"While Elhaik’s work has provided ideological support for those seeking the destruction of Israel, it’s fallen flat among established scientists, who peer reviewed his work and found it sloppy at best and political at worst.

He’s just wrong,” said Marcus Feldman of Stanford University, a leading researcher in Jewish genetics. “If you take all of the careful genetic population analysis that has been done over the last 15 years… there’s no doubt about the common Middle Eastern origin,” he said. He added that Elhaik’s paper “is sort of a one-off."
Quote:
Weird so you genuinely don't understand why 1.8 million people crammed into an area the size of a small city who routinely have their infrastructure destroyed, their fishermen shot at and killed who are not allowed to leave the area or trade with the world and who have just had 2000 of their people including around 600 children killed by the Israeli army don't like Israel?
Are you retarded?
If Hamas didn't fire rockets at Israeli civilian towns from the backyards of innocent civilan's houses then there wouldn't be a destruction of their infrastructure. If Hammas wouldn't use fishing boats to send terrorists in Israel to kill innocent civilians then Israel doesn't have to fire on fishing boats coming too close.
Not allowed to leave the area and not allowed to trade with the world? You are talking about the Nahal Oz and Karni crossings because they were not secure. Ever heard of the Kerem Shalom crossing? It is a hugely expansive and extraordinarily impressive feat of engineering and logistics andwas sized to handle all of Gaza’s needs if necessary.
Besides a small list of “dual use” materials, Israel imposes no restrictions on Gaza imports. Even some of the “dual use” materials can be imported under certain conditions – for example, international NGOs can import construction materials. Israel allows potentally dual use items, such as CO2, to be imported on a case by case basis as well.

There are no practical limits on how much Gaza can import even if its economy grew dramatically. No limits on fuel. No limits on raw materials for factories (again, except dual use materials.)
Export you said? Most of Gaza's export went to Israel and they do not want to buy their products anymore. The collapse of the Gazan export has nothing to do with the boycott but because the Israelis do not buy Gaza products anymore, just as so many Arab countries refuse to buy Israeli products. But that's something you never mention, do you?

Those 2000 of their people including around 600 children would still be alive today if Hamas didn't start firing rockets at Israeli civilian towns.
600 children. Dramatic isn't it? Do you know that a 17 year "old" jihadist killed in battle is listed as a "child"? How many children do you think died from Hamas' own rockets who failed to reach Israel? Hamas doesn't give a warning so the civilians can run away or seek shelter.

Quote:
However lets talk about Palestinians not mentioning Israel if that is a problem for you then explain where the West Bank is on this map produced by Netanpsycho...
Ah, a good one, I like it. Remember the partition plan of the UN? It says that the eastern border of the Jewish part borders the western border of the Arab part (Arab, not "Palestinian"). But the Arabs refused, so there is no Arab western border and the Jewish eastern border moves up to the next official border which is Jordan's.

Also, that map is not listed in children texbooks.

West Bank is is in fact the Judea and Samaria part that lies west of the Jordan river. It's a name change by the occupiers just as the Roman occupiers changed Judea into Palestine.

Quote:
Interestingly enough not one of those countries was called Israel, still if my land was full of say Kiwi's and and due to political cowardice someone gave half of it to say the Chinese in defiance of every international law on the books I would be mighty pissed especially if they then went on a rampage driving out 700,000 of my fellow Kiwis and taking every bit of land they could get their hands on, wouldn't you.

You are not fooling anyone you are nothing more than colonial parasites but keep on with the stories but most fairy stories start with "Once upon a time" yours should too.
So if we change the name Israel into Jacamaka then all is right and peace will return? It's about the Jews dummy, no matter what the name of the country is.
from tha Hamas Covenant: article seven : The Universality of the Islamic Resistance Movement:
The Prophet, Allah bless him and grant him salvation, has said:

"The Day of Judgement will not come about until Moslems fight the Jews , when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Moslems, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him. Only the Gharkad tree, would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Jews."
September 24th, 2014  
MontyB
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JOC
I'm not sure what's your claiming here. But Archaeological evidence of ancient Israel going back to David's time right thru to the Roman occupation has been found. Scrolls, Coins, Tablets, Buildings.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archaeology_of_Israel
I'm not making any statement about right or wrong concerning the current Israeli Palestinian conflict. But this doesn't change the fact that ancient Israel did exist.
But that is just it, try and link modern Israeli narratives to actual archeological fact, I am not claiming that the area was not inhabited for the past 4000 years I am claiming that the crowd parked there now calling themselves "Israelis" have no more reltionship to the region than I do and are in fact little more than identity thieves.

According to the Israeli narrative there were two massive upheavals of the Jewish population in Palestine one in 600ish BCE by the Babylonians and another in 135AD by the Romans yrt there is nothing in Babylonian or Roman records to indicate this ever happened, there were certainly revolts during those times and both parties admit to taking captives but they never removed entire populations.

Now you might say what does this have to do with anything?
Well it is very important as Israels story only works if the land was stripped of its inhabitants because that makes Palestinians nothing more than 7th century arab immigrants.
However given that at no stage in history does any one of the empires in the region record a mass population shift (odd in a region that wrote every event down) it is perhaps a sign of a fable rather than an actual event.

So that leaves us with a more logical story:
Instead of the mass deportation of an entire population after these rebellions the victors instead did what they did after every other successful campaign, they took thousands of prisoners as slaves, as many military leaders as they could find for their triumphs and the children of the leaders as hostages and went home.

Why is this important?
It is important because it leaves the general populace in the region.

What makes that important?
Because it makes the following more likely, the population that remained most likely Jewish and Pagan has lived there for thousands of years and through that time they adapted to suit the religion of the empire ruling the land at the time so when the Romans showed up they adopted Roman religions, when the Byzantines ruled they adopted Byzantine religion and when the Arabs rolled in they adopted Arab religions.

(Note: I am not saying there was no immigration to the region from occupying empires just that the general populace are indigenous to the region)

But most importantly it says that the Palestinians are infact the indigenous people of the region and Israelis are European colonists who have adopted a manufactured identity to justify land theft.

Basically it is the equivalent of me adopting the mayan religion and laying claim to Peru on the grounds on "historic ties" using the argument that Peruvians never existed, were manufactured in 1921 and are infact little more than Spanish immigrants because they speak Spainish.
September 24th, 2014  
MontyB
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by VDKMS

Ah, a good one, I like it. Remember the partition plan of the UN? It says that the eastern border of the Jewish part borders the western border of the Arab part (Arab, not "Palestinian"). But the Arabs refused, so there is no Arab western border and the Jewish eastern border moves up to the next official border which is Jordan's.
Would that be the same partition plan and borders Israel agreed to adhere to in its declaration of independance?
September 26th, 2014  
ScarabVenom
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MontyB
Would that be the same partition plan and borders Israel agreed to adhere to in its declaration of independance?
He's having hardship trying to understand that the issue isn't the Jewish population having a territory of their own, it's an issue of how they acquired the territory, how they go about trying to protect the territory and how skilled they are at creating a hostile atmosphere around them.
October 13th, 2014  
I3BrigPvSk
 
 
Sweden is getting closer to recognize the Palestinian state....I will say more when I know more about it

It can lead to nothing, but somebody needs to be the first one, we will see what happens.
October 13th, 2014  
MontyB
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by I3BrigPvSk
Sweden is getting closer to recognize the Palestinian state....I will say more when I know more about it

It can lead to nothing, but somebody needs to be the first one, we will see what happens.
I think Sweden is vying for second to recognise now as the British house of commons passed a non-binding motion this morning 274-12 to recognise Palestine.

There is no doubt that these are symbollic gestures unless someone is prepared to toss the Israelis off Palestinian land but they are steps in the right direction and hopefully with time enough pressure can be applied to the Israelis to bugger off back to their internationally recognised borders.


UK lawmakers pass motion to recognise Palestine as a state

Lawmakers voted by 274 to 12 to pass symbolic non-binding motion



First published: Mon, Oct 13, 2014, 22:27





British lawmakers have voted in favour of recognising Palestine as a state in a move that will not alter the government’s stance on the issue, but that carries symbolic value for Palestinians in their pursuit of statehood.
Lawmakers in Britain’s lower house of parliament voted by 274 to 12 to pass a non-binding motion stating: “That this House believes that the Government should recognise the state of Palestine alongside the state of Israel as a contribution to securing a negotiated two-state solution.”
Britain does not classify Palestine as a state, but says it could do so at any time if it believed it would help peace efforts between the Palestinians and Israel. Government ministers were told to abstain and the non-binding vote will not force Britain to recognise a Palestinian state.
The motion was tabled by Labour’s Grahame Morris, who said it was right to take the “small but symbolically important” step. Tobias Ellwood, the Middle East minister, said the UK government is a “staunch supporter” of Israel’s right to defend itself, but added that its settlement-building makes “it hard for Israel’s friends to make the case that Israel is committed to peace”. – (Reuters)


http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world...tate-1.1962265
 


Similar Topics
Israel rightfully own the West Bank .
Israel strikes Beirut suburb, tightens blockade
A conversation with Iranian dissident (MUST READ)
Palestinians
American racism